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where black africans savages prior to colonization
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hunter10 
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 09-Dec-2010 Location: London Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
 Topic: where black africans savages prior to colonizationPosted: 09-Dec-2010 at 12:06 |
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i just recently started using this forum and was worried about the tales people chat of no black civilizations or nations prior to european contact. and i wanted to correct that. i also wanted to say something about the belief that savage blacks captured savage blacks and sold them to whites. i recently asked my great grand dad, who showed me some writings by an african ruler in the oyo empire in western nigeria. apparantly he was worried that the british where selling guns to another black nation the dahomey and that because the oyo empires attempts to replicate the rifles where unsuccessful they needed to trade more with the english. unfortunately gold was not what the english wanted but slaves. in most african society prior to european colonialism. slavery was only used on people who commited grievious criminal acts and prisoners of war. and the slaves could work their way out to freedom, they could also have children who where free and their relatives could buy their freedom. some black nations like the nri kingdom even outlawed slavery and any slave that set foot on their land wes free. u see slavery in west africa was seen as being more humane than executing someone for murder as spilling blood was often seen as taboo. and they where many laws concerning the treatment of slaves. but when white people arrived the game changed because of guns. u see guns gave a nation advantages and when whites sold it to a particular black kingdom other kingdoms where afraid they would be dis advantaged and also sought after guns. at first gold and spices and cloth was enough for europeans, but with the discovery of gold and spices in north and south america, slaves where needed to covert these resources. and the only thing blacks had to trade where slaves for guns. so as a result blacks started selling their criminals into slavery thinking the same rules of slavery applied to whites, but we all know now that was different. so the slave raids only started when the kingdoms ran out of criminals and then started raiding other kingdoms and sometimes going to all out war just for slaves to get more guns. why more guns u say what did they need them for. well many people have forgotten that for centuries black africans have been resisting arab muslim invaders who wanted to forcefully enslave and convert them and needed every edge they could get get guns was to sell slaves and thus a vicious circle began. of course they where blacks who sold their own people out simply fo profit, but in what culture or race has such people not existed. i apologise to west african descendants of the slavery diaspora. and now i will list west african civilizations, which black people in america can take pride in.
from what i can tell the nok civilization is west africas oldest as it started in 1000bc and from what i can tell it started up isolated as they where no advanced cultural influences nearby. i still dont understand why when ancient africa is potrayed on tv is always mud huts. i mean the where walled cites roads, written languages , science, universities like in ancient timbuktu. some had flags and constitutions. an some where even democratic. so why are they not mentioned. mind u these links are only from west africa they are many more in central east and southern africa
Kingdom of Kongo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia east africa Aksumite Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia southern africa Zulu Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
my question is why does the media in general still insist on not showing ancient african cities, roads and politics except maybe some tiny villages whenever they want to represent ancient africa |
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red clay
Administrator 
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
Posted: 09-Dec-2010 at 13:21 |
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My question is, why didn't you do search of our archives? If you had you'd find your preaching to the choir.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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opuslola
Tsar 
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
Posted: 09-Dec-2010 at 15:38 |
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My question is, why did you spell "were" as "where?"
Sometimes an introductory phrase sets one up for some critizism / criticism? Not to worry, in my haste I done similar things! But, as regards the "savagery" of the "African slaves" brought from Africa to the Americas, it seems you must first ask the Moslems / Muslims? who procurred them? In my opinion, the only "savage act" was performed by those that enslaved these peoples! And as well as those who bought them! Edited by opuslola - 09-Dec-2010 at 18:07 |
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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Ince
Colonel 
Joined: 24-Dec-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 550 |
Posted: 10-Dec-2010 at 08:50 |
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I have noticed that Sub-Saharan African history is neglected or overlooked. Thanks for the links interesting reads. I saw a documantry on African history on the BBC, it talked about the Zimbabwe and the Nubian kingdoms. It was called "Lost Kingdoms of Africa" I think it is on Youtube.
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red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
Posted: 10-Dec-2010 at 09:57 |
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It's been estimated that less than 50% of the archeaological sites in Africa are known. In South America it's about the same. However remote sensing is starting to have an effect.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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Mosquito
Caliph 
Suspended Joined: 05-Aug-2004 Location: Sarmatia Online Status: Offline Posts: 2537 |
Posted: 11-Dec-2010 at 09:59 |
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So far I know those black africans were savages. British and other european travellers in Africa reported the extreme cruelty of those people and mass killings which they performed in their kingdoms, especially towards defeated tribes or political enemies of their chieftains. One may say that Africa and Africans didnt change so much since those times. However the white europeans and muslims who were hounting for slaves and trading them were not better in any ways.
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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MillerA
Janissary 
Joined: 08-Feb-2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 9 |
Posted: 04-Mar-2011 at 20:47 |
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This can be interpreted 2 ways based on the thread title both being a little offensive. Also, weren't all African's black prior to any foreign invasion? Why say black? As opposed to white Africans?
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eaglecap
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 15-Feb-2005 Location: ArizonaUSA Online Status: Offline Posts: 3959 |
Posted: 09-Mar-2011 at 15:43 |
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I would suggest looking up Nubian civilization
or the The Kingdom of Meroe and that should help answer your question |
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
Posted: 11-Mar-2011 at 18:06 |
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A very good response eaglecap! It seems racial elements just cannot remove themselves from the reality?
Racism exists upon all sides of this issue, and it seems, they exist almost everwhere! It is all very sad! Regards, Ron |
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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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eaglecap
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 15-Feb-2005 Location: ArizonaUSA Online Status: Offline Posts: 3959 |
Posted: 15-Mar-2011 at 17:28 |
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It is a poor assumption to make and in fact we are all savages. I agree that some cultures are more primitive and savage than others but to assume that all black cultural evolution = savagery is born out of ignorance. The Kingdom of Meroe is a very good example of an advanced black African culture. Even with all the advancements the ancient Greeks made they also left behind numerous acts of savagery. |
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
Posted: 15-Mar-2011 at 18:27 |
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Savagery, and mutilation of captives, seems to be a most normal position for a lot of men, who have seen battle!
Je' regret? |
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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Nick1986
Emperor 
Mighty Slayer of Trolls Joined: 22-Mar-2011 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 7940 |
Posted: 11-Apr-2011 at 08:11 |
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Not neccessarily. The Ethiopians embraced a very Jewish version of Christianity centuries before Europe. According to legend their kings were descended from Solomon through the Queen of Sheba
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Galleon
Janissary
Joined: 12-Apr-2011 Location: California Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
Posted: 12-Apr-2011 at 18:13 |
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One may say that Africa and Africans didn't change so much since those times. However the white europeans and muslims who were hounting for slaves and trading them were not better in many ways. Centuries ago, English and Muslim, don't know any culture than their culture. They viewed Africans a rude and etc.
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Nick1986
Emperor
Mighty Slayer of Trolls Joined: 22-Mar-2011 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 7940 |
Posted: 12-Apr-2011 at 18:36 |
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True, although the English weren't the first. The Portuguese were the first to reach subsaharan Africa at the end of the Middle Ages
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Galleon
Janissary
Joined: 12-Apr-2011 Location: California Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
Posted: 12-Apr-2011 at 18:48 |
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I agree to that Nick, the slave trade was a very controversial issue. Many have argued and debated the purpose of the trade. The question raised is why Europeans needed this labor. The answer to this question is very broad and complex. One assumption is that Europeans needed this labor to flourish as nations. There was a vast amount of free land that needed to be tended too.
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Cryptic
Arch Duke 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 05-Jul-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1962 |
Posted: 12-Apr-2011 at 23:24 |
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I dont think it was a matter of free land that needed tending per se. Rather, the better transportation infrastructures suddenly made slavery very attractive economically. Before the transportation infrastructure, slaves were of little use if the products they produced could not be reliably transported to a global market.
When transportation got better, slave produced crops could be transported great distances with increasing reliability, sold and the proceeds transported back home. Brokers also could respond to market conditions relatively quickly and accurately. Meanwhile the lack of mechanization in agriculture ensured that labor intensive crops would require lots of human effort.
Free labor in one area (even semi-free "contract" workers), could not compete with the lower cost of slave produced goods. This caused some European land owners who might have been opposed to slavery philosophicaly, to use slaves as a means to compete.
Edited by Cryptic - 13-Apr-2011 at 12:01 |
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Felakuti
Janissary
Joined: 18-Sep-2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12 |
Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 19:35 |
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It's no surprise that ''British and other European travellers'' - meaning colonialist land-grabbers and slave dealers - depicted Africans in that wholly negative light. They had to have an excuse for their looting enterprise and greed-fuelled 'civilizing' missions didn't they? No different from the demonization and stereotyping of muslims today as a pretext to attack and steal from their rich lands.
Edited by Felakuti - 19-Sep-2011 at 08:24 |
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Nick1986
Emperor
Mighty Slayer of Trolls Joined: 22-Mar-2011 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 7940 |
Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 19:54 |
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And the Americans' attempts to dehumanise the Indians during their own shameful little colonial war. Advanced nations often justify genocide by claiming their enemies are barbarians who misuse their land and can't be trusted or reasoned with |
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Baal Melqart
General 
Joined: 28-Mar-2011 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 869 |
Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 20:58 |
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It's 'je regrette' actually, no need for an apostrophe either. The truth of the matter Mosquito is that the savagery which you state to be a fact was reported by the colonial Europeans. I think they were pretty biased to be taken as a reliable account of how Africans behaved. In fact, would one expect these Africans to have been jovial and friendly towards the European settlers and explorers? |
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Timidi mater non flet
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Ekundayo
Housecarl 
Joined: 20-Apr-2012 Location: usbrasilnigeria Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Posted: 20-Apr-2012 at 04:01 |
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I know I'm not helping here by not giving authors and titles but I do have some digital public domain books of early historians and explorers in Yorubaland and other parts of Nigeria who had some pretty intense firsthand looks at how prisoners of war and slaves were treated. There was a human sacrifice to the war deity Ogun and in another slaves were forced to sit at a mock feast of some sorts if I remember correctly and then done away with in some bloody fashion. The slave raiders really weren't white at all at all, they were of various ethnicities and they had a capture kill and burn to the ground policy as they moved through the bush. I know people from royal families whose ancestors (black) were most definitely involved in selling off their own people. This idea of the big bad whitie is distorted and in fact there was a lot more complicity amongst the Africans than alot of people with agendas care to open their minds to. One was able several years ago to Google digital downloads (if they haven't copyrighted and are selling now) of these books. I am also a writer/researcher but unfortunately am not in possession of all of these materials as my fujitsu self destructed. I'll try and get some links and post again here.
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"When you allow man's decisions to touch you, you have given away your God-given power,You have to say:"I don't recognize man as my maker or my keeper."Have faith in God and you will be rewarded."ESU
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