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Topic ClosedCan real Muslims become real Americans?

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opuslola View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can real Muslims become real Americans?
    Posted: 05-Oct-2010 at 17:39
This was found on the internet, and I wish to ask all of you what are your opinions?

"CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?



This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish
Maybe this is why our American Muslims are So quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.


                  Can a good Muslim be A good American?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.   The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . .. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah Except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no... . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual Leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, The great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot Co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,'
The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to As Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 Excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be Very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.


Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country
and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE."

Can any Muslims deny the above?
Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 08:33
I think a good muslim can't be a good citizen of any country, even an Islamic country!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 12:05
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Remember how the Nazi's said the same thing about Jews. Jews couldnt be real Germans either, then the Holocaust happened. The United States is heading down a dangerous path with the emergence of these new racist movements. Heil Beck?

By that logic, I guess Jews and Christians also cannot be "real Americans". A country of atheists, thats the way I like it!

Needless to say, I believe that only atheists can be real Americans because their loyalty is to the United States and the United States only, and they respect the United States' secular laws and institutions. So I must agree with you on this.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 06-Oct-2010 at 16:47
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 16:46


A picture says a thousand words, needless to say, the racist who posted that non-sense on the internet is wrong.

Edit, Picture isnt showing up, here is the link:

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/word-of-the-day/10/19/the-gravestone-of-kareem-rashad-sultan-khan/


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 06-Oct-2010 at 17:25
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 16:55
I am sorry TGS but the picture of the "racist" is missing! To just whom are you refering? A name would suffice!

I think that I have said this somewhere else on this site, but I am old enough to have learned the "Pledge of Allegiance" in two differning forms! The first one did not have the words ""under God" in it!

Funny, eh?

Cyrus, many thanks for your response! It is somewhat frightening however?

Respectfully,

Edited by opuslola - 06-Oct-2010 at 16:59
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 17:12
This is really stupid, there are some 10 million muslims in america, do you think every one of those 10 millions citizen is a bad citizen and a terrorist supporter??? its really funny how people label an entire community with one label.
 
As for islam, no it wont agree with every american laws, but that could be said about jewish/christian laws or any other relgious laws aswell, america is a secular country. If america was a christian country following christian laws then i can bet you that Islam will agree with 90% of those laws. Islam is not very different at all from Judaism and christianity in their true forms, just read the bible or torah and see how similar it is to Islam.


Edited by balochii - 06-Oct-2010 at 18:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 17:28
Originally posted by opuslola

I am sorry TGS but the picture of the "racist" is missing! To just whom are you refering? A name would suffice!


Its not the picture of a racist. Its the picture of the tombstone of a Muslim American US Army Corporal who died fighting in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze star and the Purple Heart.

Originally posted by balochii

This is really stupid, there are some 10 million muslims in america, do you think every one of those 10 millions citizen is a bad citizen and a terrorist supporter??? its really funny how people label an entire community with one label.


Basically whats going on here in the United States on the radical right is the same thing that happened in Germany in the 1920's and 1930's... the only difference is that in Germany it was the Jews, in the United States its the Muslims.

 
Originally posted by balochii

if america was a christian country following christian laws then i can bet you that Islam will agree with 90% of those laws. Islam is very different at all from Judaism and christianity in their true forms, just read the bible or torah and see how similar it is to Islam.


Yes, what most Christians and Jews dont know is that their holy books are pretty much identical to the Koran...




Edited by TheGreatSimba - 06-Oct-2010 at 17:31
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 23:18
Dear balochii,

Thanks for your response, but I would rather hope someone would find a way to dispute the "no" answer found in my post to the ten questions!

If the writer of the above knew a lot about the Muslim population in Saudi Arabia, and he made the above questions available to us, then perhaps someone could refute his answers one by one?

I have no real bone to pick in this fight, I only presented a very troubling report!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2010 at 23:42
^ the point is why you or the author is painting all muslims with one brush? there are relgious muslims and there not so relgious muslims, there are all kinds of muslims. Its seems you or the author has hatred of all muslims no matter what type, it is clear from your earlier posts too. If some will start a war, it is people like you or the author.  Hatred runs in some people's blood. You hated the blacks, you hated the jews and now its muslims turn.

Edited by balochii - 06-Oct-2010 at 23:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 00:01
also this is racist thread, each and every one of those claims is bogus
 
 
Theologically - Muslims believe in One God, nothing else. so what? dont christians and jews do the same?

Religiously - exact same thing can be said about christian and jews or any other religion

Scripturally - same thing

Geographically - so what?

Socially - Muslims are allowed to be friends with Jews and chrisitans, its only we cannot make (country) alliances with them. However muslims living in America are ordered to respect the laws of the country, since it is not an islamic land. thats why you hardly ever see the 10 million muslim disobeying the laws
 
Politically - one of the stupidest statments coming from you, did america even exist during the time islam came?

Domestically - muslims are not ordred to marry 4 wives or beat women, you clearly dont have understanding of this. How many muslims in america are marrying 4 wives or beating their women?

Intellectually - Again BS
 
Philosophically - This can be debated futher

Spiritually - Firstly Allah has many different Attributes according to Islam, he is the most merciful, every quranic surah opens with this, that he is the most merciful, but he is also the most punishing, it depends on what a person has done in his life. Also are you telling me the description of hell in the bible is different from the quran? do you think God in bible is a peace and loving God all the time according to those descriptions in the bible?
 
 
Its clear from this thread whoever wrote this  is muslim hater and muslim basher, you obviously know nothing of islam, infact you dont even know anything about your own religion, read the bible and find how similar it is to islam. And if you wana pick a fight, I suggest you do it because trust me muslims are not weak people. If there is to be a 3 world war, i am betting you the whole world will be destroyed, muslims might not win but you will also not win either, there will be millions and millions of lives lost on both sides. do you really want that?
 
Its better to get in to our senses and work for peace, there is no reason for a uncalled for war that you and you right wingers wana start between civilizations
 

 


Edited by balochii - 07-Oct-2010 at 00:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 04:06
It can be said Islam is a newer religion in comparison to Christianity and Judaism but this religion also dates back to at least 1400 years ago and I believe those who want to be real adherents of Islam can't be alse real citizens of a modern country, so my answer to the topic of this thread is "No!".
You can just read the Quran, for example we read in 4-24: "And all married women are forbidden unto you except ...", it is shameful to say, the modern societies are very different form early Islamic societies, it is not really possible to live in a country that there are some people who have to kill you because your belief, based on their own belief, according to their religious book, of course you can hardly find any real muslims like Bin Laden and Taliban and some Shia bigots like Hasan Narsollah and their few followers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 09:20
this is the whole verse: Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 09:27
^ do you have any idea why and how this verse revealed?? it was revealed when there were muslim women who converted by their free will to islam when Muhammad (pbuh) was spreading his message, some of their husbands remained idol worshippers even though the women converted
 
there are whole (tafsirs) behind each and every verse fro explainations. Also majority of the scholars agree that some of these verses like these do not apply for these times, because clearly if you read them they were revealed for a specific situation happening at that time.
 
 
I think people with limited knowledge should really see what the majority of scholars are saying about each and every verse, because scholars are the one who implement the rules of islam according to situations and times, ofcourse there are some nutcase scholars from Alqeada or something who may justify anything but those are only in minority.
 


Edited by balochii - 07-Oct-2010 at 09:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 10:05
Originally posted by balochii

this is the whole verse: Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise
 
Originally posted by balochii

^ do you have any idea why and how this verse revealed?? it was revealed when there were muslim women who converted by their free will to islam when Muhammad (pbuh) was spreading his message, some of their husbands remained idol worshippers even though the women converted
 
there are whole (tafsirs) behind each and every verse fro explainations. Also majority of the scholars agree that some of these verses like these do not apply for these times, because clearly if you read them they were revealed for a specific situation happening at that time.
 
It shows you are not a real muslim! Wink I also say that Islamic laws can not apply for these times, as you know the surah 4 of Quran is al-Nisa (the Women) and it doesn't talk about war but women:
 
 
As you read there are just two words after "except" in this sentence: "ما ملکت" which means "what you bought", you probably know why Quran uses the pronoun " ما" (what) for women not "من " (who).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2010 at 10:35

I've recieved several objections to this thread from both Muslim and non Muslim members.  I allowed it to continue for a few days, but I'm closing it for the time being. This is almost a surefire recipe for a flamewar.  

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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