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Ancient Mythological Gods still worshipped?
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Zert View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		  Quote Zert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Mythological Gods still worshipped?
    Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 12:22
So, are there still certain communities which worship Ancient Mesopotamian Gods in the Middle East?
It's kinda silly, because I got the question after seeing a trailer to a movie, in which a woman is heard praying to Gilgamesh, but I guess there might be some very small communities left.

(BTW, this is the trailer, if you were wondering:
http://vimeo.com/9938431
, it's at the beginning. She is praying to Gilgamesh isn't she?)


Edited by Zert - 19-Jun-2010 at 12:25
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 12:32
I highly doubt it, also Gilgamesh wasnt a god.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 12:59
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

I highly doubt it, also Gilgamesh wasnt a god.
 
Either I do.
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 13:11
@ Zert.
 
I think "Melek Tawis" (as is depicted within your avator pic.) could have something to do with ancient Mesopotamian deities. It is just my naive assumption: as far as I know Ezidi Kurds believe that Melek Tawis was a fallen angel. I just faced a figure in the famous book Dictionnaire Infernal which is a mixture out of a man and a peafowl (maybe I am wrong) which, to me, it resembles Melek Tawis. His name is "Adra Melech" (Hebrew melech is a cognate of Arabic melek) and he also is a fallen angel in accordance with Paradise Lost and Dictionnarie Infernal, and the sun God in Mesopotamian beliefs. As I have already affirmed it is only an assumption.
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 15:22

I highly doubt it, also Gilgamesh wasnt a god.

Actually, he was worshipped as a god.  According to the Fara (Shurrupak) Texts his name was invoked as that of a deity.  These texts are dated to about 2600 BC, when Shurrupak itself was probably under the rule of the city of Uruk.  Since this was the city where Gilgamesh himself ruled, this would make sense.  According to legend Gilgamesh's "ancestor" was the last king of Shuruppak before the Flood, hence showing some kind of relationship between the two cities. His floruit is dated variously within the 27th century, (ex. c. 2700, c. 2660, c. 2630 BC).  This seems to show that he was deified almost immediately after his death. 
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 15:24
Interesting, but was a religion formed around him, one that had such an impact that people today would still be worshiping him?
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 1314 		  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2010 at 15:58
Unlikely.  We must bare in mind that we actually know very little about Sumero-Babylonian religion, except for some prayers, names and characteristics of deities, temple furniture, and perhaps some knowledge of some rituals, hardly enough to try to reconstruct religion.  Hence, "paganists" tend to use their imagination to "fill in the (huge amount) of blanks" to create something they feel is Mesopotamian religion.  Today's worshippers of Babylonian deities essentially create their own doctrines, if any.  There is no true continuity.
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Posts: 111 		  Quote Putty19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2010 at 05:37
Originally posted by Quaere Verum

@ Zert.
 
I think "Melek Tawis" (as is depicted within your avator pic.) could have something to do with ancient Mesopotamian deities. It is just my naive assumption: as far as I know Ezidi Kurds believe that Melek Tawis was a fallen angel. I just faced a figure in the famous book Dictionnaire Infernal which is a mixture out of a man and a peafowl (maybe I am wrong) which, to me, it resembles Melek Tawis. His name is "Adra Melech" (Hebrew melech is a cognate of Arabic melek) and he also is a fallen angel in accordance with Paradise Lost and Dictionnarie Infernal, and the sun God in Mesopotamian beliefs. As I have already affirmed it is only an assumption.


The Peacock is a sacred sign among Indians, not ancient Mesopotamians, in fact Yezidi tradition says that they came to Mesopotamia from India around 2000 BC, if so, they could be tied to the Indo-Aryan Mitanni which dominated in Mesopotamia around 1500 BC until being Assyrianized during the middle Assyrian period.

I also noticed this on avatar of the OP:


There seems to be cuneiform writing on it and not just that, the mini star under the peacock resembles and Assyrian star which is the sign of Shamash:
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2010 at 08:22
Originally posted by Putty19



The Peacock is a sacred sign among Indians, not ancient Mesopotamians,
 
Maybe since peafowl is indegenous to India. But I wonder how come they depict Adra Melech as (almost) a half-peacock?
 
Originally posted by Putty19

in fact Yezidi tradition says that they came to Mesopotamia from India around 2000 BC, if so, they could be tied to the Indo-Aryan Mitanni which dominated in Mesopotamia around 1500 BC until being Assyrianized during the middle Assyrian period.
 
I have not heard of any Yezidi tradition implying their origins in India? But I am pretty sure he, Adramelech, was a Mesopotamian God and in Judaism, and subsequently Christianity, he was believed to be a demon, or a fallen angel (in accordance with Paradise Lost).

Originally posted by Putty19


I also noticed this on avatar of the OP:


 
Your posted pic is not displayed.
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Posts: 111 		  Quote Putty19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2010 at 18:35
Originally posted by Quaere Verum

Maybe since peafowl is indegenous to India. But I wonder how come they depict Adra Melech as (almost) a half-peacock?


Yes it is from India, which makes the Indian origin something to think about.
 
I have not heard of any Yezidi tradition implying their origins in India? But I am pretty sure he, Adramelech, was a Mesopotamian God and in Judaism, and subsequently Christianity, he was believed to be a demon, or a fallen angel (in accordance with Paradise Lost).


I have heard of this claim plenty of times from some Yizidie people, in fact it was on http://www.yeziditruth.org until it went down, but here's what it said:

Who Are the Yezidis?

The Yezidis or Yazidis are a Kurdish speaking people who live principally in northern Iraq.  They number approximately 500,000 - 600,000 with another 200,000 settled in other parts of the world.  They are mostly a poor and oppressed people, but they have a rich spiritual tradition that they contend is the world's oldest.  Originally from India and therefore related to the Hindus, they also have close connections with many other cultures and traditions they have lived among during their gradual migration westward to the Middle East.  For example, they have close ties with the Zoroastrian religion they encountered in Persia, and they reflect some of the doctrines and rites of Islam which were integrated into Yezidism by the faith's Sufi reformer, Sheike Adi, during the 11th century.  Well before this time, as far back as 2000 B.C., the Yezidis were living in the Middle East and playing a role in the Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and Jewish civilizations.

The Yezidis claim to have the oldest religion in the world, contending that the truth of this is reflected in the antiquity of their calendar.  They can trace back their religious calendar  6756 years, thus making 2008 CE the Yezidi year of 6757.  In relation to some of the other major religions, the Yezidi Calendar is 4,750 years older than the Christian or Gregorian Calendar,  990 years older than the Jewish Calender, and it is 5329 years older than the Muslim Calender.

The Yezidi Name

Since their founding many thousands of years ago in India, these people have always been known as the Yezidis or Yazidis.  According to Eszter Spat in The Yezidis, the name is derived from ez Xwede dam, meaning "I was created by God."  Some Yezidis maintain that it translates as "Followers of the true path."  The term Yezidi or Yazidi is also very close to the Persion/Zoroastrian word Yazdan, meaning "God", and Yazata, meaning "divine" or "angelic being".

For this reason scholars have theorized a Persian origin for the Yezidis.  Other scholars have associated the name Yazidi with Yazid bin Muawiyah, a Moslem Caliph ofthe early Umayyad Dynasty.  According to the current Yezidi belief, however, the Caliph Yazid was a Moslem ruler who eventually became disenchanted with his religion and converted to Yezidism.

Yezidi Persecution 

Even with all of their ostensible connections to other faiths, the Yezidis have for hundreds of years been under constant attack from Moslems who promulgate the idea that the Yezidi's principle diety, Tawsy Melek, the "Peacock Angel", is Satan.  Moslems also contend that the Yezidis are not "People of the Book", i.e., that they don't have a sacred revealed scripture like the Holy Bible or the Koran at the center of their religion, so they claim justification in their massacre of them.  Or even worse, some Moslems have pronounced the Yezidis as heretics who were once orthodox Moslems - an allegation that puts them in the lowest rung of humanity.  Over the course of 700 years, nearly 23 million Yezidi people have been murdered, thus bringing their civilization to the brink of extinction.
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2010 at 05:59
Originally posted by Putty19


Yes it is from India, which makes the Indian origin something to think about.
 
 
Not necessarily, since they do not use any specific Indian word at all specially regarding to calling "peafowl". But they do use Arabic "Tawis" (which itself is allegedly a Greek loan) and it is wonderful that the entire term "Melek Tawis" is also an Arabic (Semitic) term. By the way the aforesaid Mesopotamian diety and Abrahamic fallen angel is always accompanied with the term "Melech" ~ "Adra Melech", the same as "Melek Tawis". Also it does ring some bells that in accordance with Yezidi religous beliefs Melek Tawis is explicitly described as a fallen angel who later recieves the divine forgiveness after weeping tears for some 7000 years.
 
Originally posted by Putty19


I have heard of this claim plenty of times from some Yizidie people, in fact it was on http://www.yeziditruth.org until it went down, but here's what it said:

Who Are the Yezidis?

The Yezidis or Yazidis are a Kurdish speaking people who live principally in northern Iraq.  They number approximately 500,000 - 600,000 with another 200,000 settled in other parts of the world.  They are mostly a poor and oppressed people, but they have a rich spiritual tradition that they contend is the world's oldest.  Originally from India and therefore related to the Hindus, they also have close connections with many other cultures and traditions they have lived among during their gradual migration westward to the Middle East. 

 
Well the passage doesn't mention on which account they should be considered so-related to Hindus and originated from India. By the way besides Melek Tawis being an Arabic term, their religous name, Yezidi (Ezidi, Yezedi, Ezdi, etc.), is for sure an Iranian term which itself is hardly to be reckoned even Kurdish, but most likely a Parthian loan thru Middle Persian (since it is a cognate of Old Iranian yezete ~ the worshipped one; and Kurdish is not supposed to retain Old Iranian initial "y-"
e.g. yevane ~ juwan, yewe ~ jew, yeoke ~ joq, etc.).


Edited by Quaere Verum - 21-Jun-2010 at 06:14
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 07:57
Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by Quaere Verum

Maybe since peafowl is indegenous to India. But I wonder how come they depict Adra Melech as (almost) a half-peacock?


Yes it is from India, which makes the Indian origin something to think about.
 
I have not heard of any Yezidi tradition implying their origins in India? But I am pretty sure he, Adramelech, was a Mesopotamian God and in Judaism, and subsequently Christianity, he was believed to be a demon, or a fallen angel (in accordance with Paradise Lost).


I have heard of this claim plenty of times from some Yizidie people, in fact it was on http://www.yeziditruth.org until it went down, but here's what it said:

Who Are the Yezidis?

The Yezidis or Yazidis are a Kurdish speaking people who live principally in northern Iraq.  They number approximately 500,000 - 600,000 with another 200,000 settled in other parts of the world.  They are mostly a poor and oppressed people, but they have a rich spiritual tradition that they contend is the world's oldest.  Originally from India and therefore related to the Hindus, they also have close connections with many other cultures and traditions they have lived among during their gradual migration westward to the Middle East.  For example, they have close ties with the Zoroastrian religion they encountered in Persia, and they reflect some of the doctrines and rites of Islam which were integrated into Yezidism by the faith's Sufi reformer, Sheike Adi, during the 11th century.  Well before this time, as far back as 2000 B.C., the Yezidis were living in the Middle East and playing a role in the Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and Jewish civilizations.

The Yezidis claim to have the oldest religion in the world, contending that the truth of this is reflected in the antiquity of their calendar.  They can trace back their religious calendar  6756 years, thus making 2008 CE the Yezidi year of 6757.  In relation to some of the other major religions, the Yezidi Calendar is 4,750 years older than the Christian or Gregorian Calendar,  990 years older than the Jewish Calender, and it is 5329 years older than the Muslim Calender.

The Yezidi Name

Since their founding many thousands of years ago in India, these people have always been known as the Yezidis or Yazidis.  According to Eszter Spat in The Yezidis, the name is derived from ez Xwede dam, meaning "I was created by God."  Some Yezidis maintain that it translates as "Followers of the true path."  The term Yezidi or Yazidi is also very close to the Persion/Zoroastrian word Yazdan, meaning "God", and Yazata, meaning "divine" or "angelic being".

For this reason scholars have theorized a Persian origin for the Yezidis.  Other scholars have associated the name Yazidi with Yazid bin Muawiyah, a Moslem Caliph ofthe early Umayyad Dynasty.  According to the current Yezidi belief, however, the Caliph Yazid was a Moslem ruler who eventually became disenchanted with his religion and converted to Yezidism.

Yezidi Persecution 

Even with all of their ostensible connections to other faiths, the Yezidis have for hundreds of years been under constant attack from Moslems who promulgate the idea that the Yezidi's principle diety, Tawsy Melek, the "Peacock Angel", is Satan.  Moslems also contend that the Yezidis are not "People of the Book", i.e., that they don't have a sacred revealed scripture like the Holy Bible or the Koran at the center of their religion, so they claim justification in their massacre of them.  Or even worse, some Moslems have pronounced the Yezidis as heretics who were once orthodox Moslems - an allegation that puts them in the lowest rung of humanity.  Over the course of 700 years, nearly 23 million Yezidi people have been murdered, thus bringing their civilization to the brink of extinction.


I dont know much about Yezidis but peacock is associated with Hindu God Skanda.Skanda is believed to the Son of Shive who is a manifestation of Supreme lord "Brahman".Shiva is the destroyer,Vishnu the sustainer and Brahma the creator all are the manifestations of supreme lord Brahman.Skanda is called as Muruga in South India he is considered equal to the Holy Hindu Trinity ie Brahma ,Vishnu & Shiva.Skanda rides a peacock.He is also called as Mayil Vahanan,which means the one who rides peacock.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 15:11
Since in todays world, the so called "pea-cock" or "pea-fowl", seems to exist and reproduced in most areas of the West (in the USA,and Eurppe), etc.

Then why does anyone try to tie it down to a certain area or Era?

It seems therefore, that onece a few males and females were imported anywhere within the Med. area,then they were doomed to reproduce!

Exocitic animals have it seems, always intrigued the "rich and famous!", thus no one can really consider just when these birds,became ingrained within the limots of the rich, and much later, became noticed by the vast majority?
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