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More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun
    Posted: 17-Jun-2010 at 14:59
.. gun control laws.

Does legal gunownership cause more or less crime?

http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=7235
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2010 at 15:09
I dont think it causes more or less crimes to simply own a gun, it is the availability of guns and how easily they are acquired which increases crime and crime rates.

Many nations that ban gun ownership actually have much lower crime rates.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2010 at 15:13
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

I dont think it causes more or less crimes to simply own a gun, it is the availability of guns and how easily they are acquired which increases crime and crime rates.Many nations that ban gun ownership actually have much lower crime rates.


Good points but I need some time to respond in a fair manner, in part I agree with you.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote C. Isaurikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2010 at 16:33
Compared to virtually all other developed nations, the USA has a far higher homicide rate. I predict that if we took guns out of the equation, the assault rate would go up and the homicide rate would go down (a preferable scenario).
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2010 at 15:56
Just like Ripley, 'believe it or not!'

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

Can anyone name the most heavily armed developed nation on the planet?
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2010 at 19:39
As I understand it, most gun-related crimes are committed with illegal possession of guns.
 
I do not think legalility of gun possession would cause a great difference here to deter crimes - most significant factor would still be poverty and lack of legal opportunities to earn a living.
 
If the threat is serious, there would be many who would seek to own a gun for protection, through both legal and illegal means.
 
And criminals would seek to use the means they think most effective for their crimes - so if they know many prospective victims are armed, they would simply have to gang together and have more weapons.
 
Unless the criminal elements have better alternatives, they would not simply give up their life of crime in the face of gun-owning victims.
 
One factor that legality of gun ownership would have though is this - it is an additional avenue for criminals to get their hands on guns.
 
AFAIK, guns used to commit crimes are either
(1) legally possessed in the first place by the criminal, OR
(2) sold illegally by legal gun sellers, OR
(3) lost by the legal owners / stolen by the criminals
 
AFAIK, there is no significant smuggling of guns with the aim of selling them to felons to commit non-political crimes.
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 06:18
I agree with everything you say, but what you say applies to the United States, doesnt necessarily apply to other countries, where crimes rates (such as murder) are lower and gun ownership is illegal.
 
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 08:30
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

I agree with everything you say, but what you say applies to the United States, doesnt necessarily apply to other countries, where crimes rates (such as murder) are lower and gun ownership is illegal.
 
I dont think there is any country where gun ownership is illegal. Its just the difference between having the consitutional or legal "right to have gun" and having gun with the special permission. In my country there is no somthing "right to have gun" but in theory everyone can have it if obtain special permission from the goverment. The one who wants the gun must apply to ministry of internal affairs for the permission to have gun, he must back his apllication with the explanation why does he think that gun possesion is necessary for him, next must also go to psychiatrist and psychologist and they must give him paper that he can have gun. He must also present documents from the court register that he has never commited crime. Next if the ministry will find his application reasonable, he can get permission and buy the gun.
 
However it is much easier to get permission for a sport gun or a riffle. To get permission for sport gun one must join the sport club and take part in shooting competitions. To get the permission for riffle one must join Polish Hunting Association and pass 2 exams. One exam is shooting (he must have a result that makes certain that he can hit what he aim, it not an easy one, and second - theoretic exam about safety and hounting)
 
For buying Copies of guns and riflles made before year 1850 the permission is not required but for shooting - yes.
 
 
Poland has about 38 millions of citisens. In the whole country is registered over 300.000 guns, riffles, sport guns and sport riffles. Every year in Poland are being commited about 50 crimes with the use of guns.
 
And personally: I wouldnt like to have a gun or riffle at home. But I do shoot somtimes in the sport club.


Edited by Mosquito - 05-Jul-2010 at 08:41
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 08:52
Well, see, that's what I'm talking about, its much harder or impossible to get a gun in other countries, in the USA you can pretty much get whatever you want with almost no hassle.

You said that Poland is a country of 38 million people, with over 300,000 registered guns and there are only 50 gun related crimes a year.

In the US, something like 46% percent of the population legally owns atleast one gun, who knows how many millions more own guns illegal, and over an average weekend in any major city in the United States, there are 50 gun related crimes.

I read this article about how just a couple weekends ago there were 50+ shootings in Chicago alone over one weekend.

Something is broken with the system here in the US, as most things are. We are pretty backwards for a developed rich country.LOL


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 05-Jul-2010 at 08:53
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 14:33
TGS wrote the following;

"Something is broken with the system here in the US, as most things are. We are pretty backwards for a developed rich country.
"

Just why would someone write the above and then "laugh out loud?"

Just another example of the Marxist attitude towards the USA!

I would easily guess that there exists upwards of 500 million guns in the USA! I personally know hundreds of people who own legally over a hundred weapons!

And guess what, none of them have ever committed a "gun crime!"

But, TGS and his Marxist cronies, whould quickly "disarm America" if given but half a chance! Luckly our Supreme Court recently placed their approval upon the right of all Americans to "Keep and Bear Arms!"

Amen!

By the way, it seems no one has yet answered my question from a previous post, that is "What nation in the world is the 'most" heavily armed nation?"

Edited by opuslola - 05-Jul-2010 at 14:36
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 14:53
Originally posted by opuslola

 
 
By the way, it seems no one has yet answered my question from a previous post, that is "What nation in the world is the 'most" heavily armed nation?"
 
 
 
Im 100% sure that it is Switzerland. Every Swiss man in age 18 to 50 is member of local millitia and soldier of the Swiss army, obliged to keep his equipment at home, including arms.


Edited by Mosquito - 05-Jul-2010 at 14:55
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 15:31
And the award for knowledge goes to that "pesky, blood sucking insect!" Yes, Switzerland for sure! These men not only have "rifles" but they also have access to lots of firepower, cannon, explosives, etc,.! All cleverly hidden, within their near reach, if ever a foreign power decides to invade!

Ever been there? Narrow valleys, lots of "high ground" and lot of men and women who live where they will fight, and know the territory!

Hitler might well have known something?

Thanks Mosquito!

Edited by opuslola - 05-Jul-2010 at 15:32
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 16:36
Originally posted by opuslola


Just why would someone write the above and then "laugh out loud?"


Because its true.

Originally posted by opuslola


Just another example of the Marxist attitude towards the USA!


Sure, keep blaming others for your problems.

Originally posted by opuslola


I would easily guess that there exists upwards of 500 million guns in the USA! I personally know hundreds of people who own legally over a hundred weapons!

And guess what, none of them have ever committed a "gun crime!"


Ok, I'm glad those you know with weapons havent committed any gun related crimes. But the fact is, there are people out there committing gun related crimes.

Originally posted by opuslola


But, TGS and his Marxist cronies, whould quickly "disarm America" if given but half a chance! Luckly our Supreme Court recently placed their approval upon the right of all Americans to "Keep and Bear Arms!"

Amen!


Who exactly wants to disarm America? Making it tougher to own guns isnt getting rid of guns. Once again, we have another case of someone who simply makes up things simply to justify his/her false anger.


Originally posted by opuslola


By the way, it seems no one has yet answered my question from a previous post, that is "What nation in the world is the 'most" heavily armed nation?"



Here is the truth about gun ownership in Switzerland:

  • it was required to keep a gun within ones home as part of the military obligation to the country (for the nations defense against foreign invaders)
  • it is very difficult (much more difficult than the US) for one to buy a gun for private ownership
  • laws in Switzerland are quickly changing to discontinue the practice of issuing weapons regarding the military obligation and providing ammunition has already been discontinued
Sorry bud, things are changing there rapidly after a 2001 incident. And on top of that there are dozens of gun related incidents yearly in Switzerland, and over 300 deaths annually (mostly suicides and family murders).

So you see, the fact that so many Swiss own weapons is due to a military obligation to do so, not out of desire to do so. Infact, getting your own private weapon outside of military service is very difficult compared to here in the US.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 16:36
Originally posted by opuslola

And the award for knowledge goes to that "pesky, blood sucking insect!" Yes, Switzerland for sure! These men not only have "rifles" but they also have access to lots of firepower, cannon, explosives, etc,.! All cleverly hidden, within their near reach, if ever a foreign power decides to invade!

Ever been there? Narrow valleys, lots of "high ground" and lot of men and women who live where they will fight, and know the territory!

Hitler might well have known something?

Thanks Mosquito!
 
 
Yup, iv been there and also i knew some Swiss people personally..... they are strange ;)
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 18:30
TGS and I had this discussion above;


Originally posted by opuslola
Just why would someone write the above and then "laugh out loud?"

TGS responded by saying this; "Because its true."

OK, we will now play by the Rules made up by TGS!

At least one third of the people in Central and S. Africa are infected with the Aids virus! According to TGS, I should "laugh outloud!"

Tens of thousands of N. E. Africans die each year due to lack of good water! TGS would respond thusly; "laugh out loud!"

And, I could post numerous other examples where it would be most "crude" to "laugh out loud", when mentioning the pain others suffer!

He, it seems, whould just "laugh out loud" whenever anything is "true!?"

A very sick individual!

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 19:49
Jesus Christ, you need to calm down, why are you so angry? I think this anger is clouding your judgment.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 05-Jul-2010 at 19:50
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote RollingWave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2010 at 23:04

Wouldn't legalization of guns = much higher circulation of guns = many more chances for criminals to acquire guns ?

 
In Taiwan, the only times any criminals bring out guns is when they're going to assasinate another gangster or pull really big jobs, you almost never see them in petty crimes, not even robbing banks. (because of this issue most bank robbiers happen via insider job of some form. you almost NEVER see anyone just busting into a bank with guns.
 
It does help that on top of banning guns Taiwan is a island nation, so the method of smuggling them in is limited at best.
 
With that said, gun ownership is pretty much the pandora's box, once you let it out it's almost impossible to backtrack it, due to this reason it usually become fairly pointless to argue the merits and fault of the policy, since those that have opened it (like the US due to historical issues) simply can't backtrack even if they want to. while countries that havn't opened it won't simply due to the fear that they can't backtrack it if they change their minds.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 06:18
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by opuslola

 
 
By the way, it seems no one has yet answered my question from a previous post, that is "What nation in the world is the 'most" heavily armed nation?"
 
 
 
Im 100% sure that it is Switzerland. Every Swiss man in age 18 to 50 is member of local millitia and soldier of the Swiss army, obliged to keep his equipment at home, including arms.
 
 
Then you are 100% wrong.  As much as it bothers me to say it, the US is.  And that isn't counting the Military.  This is old data, approximately 1990 [I'll try and find a source] but in just Pennsylvania alone there were 8 million registered firearms.  Notice I used registered, there isn't any count on what isn't registered.  By some well informed folks, it could be 3x the above number.
 
We aren't just talking handguns or deer rifles here.  Remember, Pa. is where a tractor trailer load of 2,000 M-60's just disappeared. [None have ever been recovered].
 
I will separate this from above as I do not have a reliable quotable source.  It's been estimated by people knowledgeable in such things that, in just Penna. there are as many automatic and semiautomatic weapons in private hands as are in military hands.  These weapons are mostly unregistered.   
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 06:53
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by opuslola

 
 
By the way, it seems no one has yet answered my question from a previous post, that is "What nation in the world is the 'most" heavily armed nation?"
 
 
 
Im 100% sure that it is Switzerland. Every Swiss man in age 18 to 50 is member of local millitia and soldier of the Swiss army, obliged to keep his equipment at home, including arms.
 
 
Then you are 100% wrong.  As much as it bothers me to say it, the US is.  And that isn't counting the Military.  This is old data, approximately 1990 [I'll try and find a source] but in just Pennsylvania alone there were 8 million registered firearms.  Notice I used registered, there isn't any count on what isn't registered.  By some well informed folks, it could be 3x the above number.
 
We aren't just talking handguns or deer rifles here.  Remember, Pa. is where a tractor trailer load of 2,000 M-60's just disappeared. [None have ever been recovered].
 
I will separate this from above as I do not have a reliable quotable source.  It's been estimated by people knowledgeable in such things that, in just Penna. there are as many automatic and semiautomatic weapons in private hands as are in military hands.  These weapons are mostly unregistered.   
 
But in Switzerland everyone has at home modern assault riffle. You cant say that in USA all the men between 18-50 got modern assault riffles at home ;)
 
This is standart swiss assault riffle:
 
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  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 09:38
Is it that Switzerland has a greater percentage of gun owenrship per total of the population. ie that  X number of every Swiss citizens own a firearm, which may be greater than any of the states in the US, even though such states might have more firearms in total by number and a larger population.
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