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ChildrenOfMala'Kak
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Topic: Kurds are German? Posted: 05-Apr-2016 at 10:56 |
One think I do know is that kurds are nomadic mountain people. Or at least their ancestors was. That is the best evidecne of kurdish origin.
Even the word kur mean mountain I think. Living in caves in mountain. And most still do. My point is that you do not get tanned living in the shadows and in the cold. Its obvious its the lifestyle that creates these features. Same goes for all races. It got nothing to with germanic or Aryan for that matter. You live in hot areas for long time your children will be dark skinned. It was not all about Invasion. There were kurds later who settled in warmer regions later. But they originated from these mountains and caves where the was not much sunlight.
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=49273
The toponym “kar-daKI-ka” (“ma-da kar-daKI-ka”) means land of “Karda”, which derives most likely out of Akkadian “qarda” (“qurda”) for heroic, brave, valiant, and warlike (mountain) people. It was geographically located in ancient heartlands of the Guti(ans) in central Zagros east areas in Northwest Iran of today, and was documented in several late Sumerian UrIII sources at the end of the 3rd millennium B.C.E. from Girsu in south Mesopotamia. Origin and ethnic affiliations of the inhabitants of the land of “Karda” are not known. The term “kar-daKI-ka” was one of the oldest cuneiform expressions used by Mesopotamians to denote various indigenous Zagros hilly/mountain nomads of multi-ethnical origin in the North and the (North-)East, whom they regarded as warlike and also as uncivilized because they were at the time mainly not urban organized in contrast to lowland Mesopotamians. Available cuneiform sources indicated that Mesopotamians saw “kar-daKI-ka” in consecutive connection with Guti(ans): first, because of its location in the center of (former) dominating Guti power coalitions in areas of central Zagros (east); second, because of the image of its population as warlike, similar to Guti(ans) where (who) was (were) portrayed by Mesopotamians; third, because of further suggesting that its society(ies) could have been militarily orsganized, possibly migrating and temporarily prevailing inter-regionally (across the Zagros); and last but not least, because of its obvious geo-strategic importance even for far away late UrIII leaders of south Mesopotamia, regardless whether or not they effectively controlled the area which seems for the time in question unlikely. Mesopotamians used to describe the inter-connected ancestral habitat of various multi-ethnic Zagros mountain coalitions in a vague terminology, and in waxing and waning concepts who were influenced by changing policies. They did not see regions (lands) like “kar-daKI-ka” as isolated single ones in a far north-east but embedded in an inter-regionally connected habitat of mountain nomad coalitions stretching from the North to the North-East of Mesopotamia. They also used a good number of different terms in particular assumed Sumerian “kur”-stem expressions (who later prevailed) to characterize them accordingly. In linguistic terms, the presumed Semitic (Akkadian) word-stem “kard-” (KI-ka” is formally not identical with the presumably Sumerian rooted “kurd-” one (for Kurds, land of Kurds). However, the content of both terms denoting (warlike) Zagros-Taurus mountain populations of multi-ethnical origins seems to be strikingly similar. Therefore, the explanation attempt of “kar-daKI-ka” as land of heroic, valiant, and warlike indigenous central Zagros (east) inhabitants could indicate a local/ regional militarily organized autochthonous pre-IE (proto-non-Iranian) population, and could even possibly point to ancient forefathers of Kurds in NW Iran of today, interpreted as Zagros-Taurus mountaineers
Edited by ChildrenOfMala'Kak - 05-Apr-2016 at 11:02
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J.A.W.
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Posted: 20-Mar-2016 at 04:43 |
Isn't the traditional 'evil eye' icon usually shown as being blue?
Wasn't Alexander of Macedon reputed to be a blue-eyed blonde?
Weren't 'northmen' traditionally employed by the Byzantines as bodyguards/mercenaries?
Likely, there was quite a bit of intercourse, social, & otherwise.. over the centuries..
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Posted: 19-Mar-2016 at 17:24 |
I have seen this speculation before. I believe the confusion comes from the fact that Herodotus talked about a Persian tribe the Germanii (with two "i"s, and some think this Persian tribe were the Kurds.
The "Germanii" with 2 "i" that Herodotus used looks very similar to the Latin word "Germani", with one "i" that the Romans used to refer to a Teutonic, Germanic speaking tribe, but there is no relation.
Some Persians and Central Asian did have blonde hair and blue eyes, tribes of people traveled back and forth (Greeks, others), but that does not mean they were of "Germanic" descent. There were Celts, Greeks (Mycenaean Greeks were sometimes blonde), and others. Slaves, travelers, [passing armies could have left genetic contributions of blonde hair and blue eyes that you occasionally see in these populations.
Edited by Historian - 19-Mar-2016 at 17:35
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Aeoli
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Posted: 12-Mar-2016 at 14:00 |
Originally posted by ChildrenOfMala'Kak
No,Iran and Persia were to different people then. Iran was known as Elam they ancient Iranian. Medo Perisans spoke Avestan or Ancient sand sanscrit. Elamites were black people. Elam was one the sons of Shem. All of Shem's children were dark skinned.
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The man figure has blue eyes, hasn't he? His skin seems to dark as black people? Is it because of time effect?
I have read a book which was written by Necme Necefi, a female teacher in Iran. Even she was mentioning blond haired-blue eyed mountain Kurds who didn't effect Arab invasion. Of course I don't think she meant real germanic blonds
Blonde in Middle East are different. Blonde Man in Turkish standart
Blond boy in Germanic Standart
Edited by Aeoli - 12-Mar-2016 at 14:03
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ChildrenOfMala'Kak
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Posted: 10-Mar-2016 at 18:41 |
No,Iran and Persia were to different people then. Iran was known as Elam they ancient Iranian. Medo Perisans spoke Avestan or Ancient sand sanscrit. Elamites were black people. Elam was one the sons of Shem. All of Shem's children were dark skinned.
Edited by ChildrenOfMala'Kak - 10-Mar-2016 at 18:47
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ChildrenOfMala'Kak
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Posted: 10-Mar-2016 at 14:33 |
Saying Kurds are Germanic is like saying all Germans are Germanic. And that is not true. Germanic goes back to the Aryan root again. All nations has has Aryans but No nation or Continents are Aryans. Its a race and not a nation. Just like Jews. Every nations has them, but they can't call them selves Jews just because they have them. That would be wrong.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 24-Feb-2016 at 17:48 |
Np. the Kurds have a tremendous and richly diverse ethnic heritage afaic.
what I wont tolerate is extreme nationalistiv views that perpetrate hostility and disrespect for an opposing view. Iow. if a nationalist wants to believe Kurds are remnants of the Hurrians or the Medes (tho I could never figure out that one because anti Iranian nationalists always iforget who the Medes were)...fine. do it iaw the Code of Conduct.
I found personally the history of the development of Christainity among Kurds to be very interesting....but as a retired soldier I respect their military exploits as well.
All is good... as long as we remember that respect is the 'watch word'
otherwise...
The war dog from hell ie...me..will insure that it is maintained.
good luck and post often.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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ChildrenOfMala'Kak
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Posted: 24-Feb-2016 at 17:25 |
Thank you sir. I'm kurdish myself, and this is the first time I've heard this. And with all do respect I was hoping It was more of a joke. Most of us today are dark skinned. I live scandinavia , so I have a pretty good Idead what germanic people looks like. So claiming they are kurds, we will automatically shoot ourselves in the foot. Because that automatically disqualifies us as kurds.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 24-Feb-2016 at 17:01 |
Originally posted by ChildrenOfMala'Kak
That is wrong on so many levels. Kurds are not germanic at all. Kurds are part of Iranic people. And Iranic people are part of the Aryan culture. Being Arayan got nothing to do with being tall,blue eye and blond hair. The Aryan culture derived from some tribe in Africa who migrated to India and then Middle east and founded Persia and Median and Scythian Empire. Iranic people today still celebrates Newroz which is a part of the Arayan tradition. Hitler used the term Arayan for sin own agenda. And he was neither tall,blond haired or blue eyed himself. |
Amen.
And what the guy above me said. otoh, this isn't particularly a new thread so don't expect much in the way of future responses to your post.
Iow. it's been beat to death not to mention that innumerable sources exist that id and support various themes on the history of Kurds.
Personally, because I'm a historian I'd start with the ''Sharafnama''.
R. Izady..and anything else he wrote/writes. The CIA/DOD still uses his
''The Kurds: a concise handbook''
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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red clay
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Posted: 24-Feb-2016 at 13:06 |
Opinions on this subject are like bellybuttons, everyone has one.
Welcome aboard.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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ChildrenOfMala'Kak
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Posted: 24-Feb-2016 at 12:20 |
That is wrong on so many levels. Kurds are not germanic at all. Kurds are part of Iranic people. And Iranic people are part of the Aryan culture. Being Arayan got nothing to do with being tall,blue eye and blond hair. The Aryan culture derived from some tribe in Africa who migrated to India and then Middle east and founded Persia and Median and Scythian Empire. Iranic people today still celebrates Newroz which is a part of the Arayan tradition. Hitler used the term Arayan for sin own agenda. And he was neither tall,blond haired or blue eyed himself.
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Zagros-Toros
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Posted: 28-Jan-2015 at 06:40 |
[QUOTE=Zagros-Toros]
Zagros-Toros]The Sumerian were Aryans-Kurds Sumerian language was spoken in ancient Kurdish Mesopotamia (Kurdish:
MezraBotan) is Proto Indo-European language. These great civilizations
is known for the invention of writing, at the end of the year 4000 BC
Lived in the region between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers
(Mesopotamian). Four thousand years ago, our community life, the role of
agriculture, ox power in the production and purification efficiency and
disciplined work Sumerians had created an economic doctrine. The
Sumerian language, is with Kur, Gutian, Hatti/Luwian, Xaldi (Urartu),
Hurrian/Mitanni, and other Aryan (Median) language is found to be
closely today as it bears resemblance with the Kurdish seen. It is
obvious that come from the same root as the etymology of words.Language
is alive, and very little language may remain unchanged in 4000. The
Kurds, over 1400 years the Arab cultural imperialism and the Turkey 86
years and despite denial were able to save their language from dying.The
reason for this is the Kurdish oral literature and folklore are rich.
Russian scholar: "The Kurds are the people most of the stories in the
world has ..." he pointed to the Kurdish oral literature. This rich oral
literature of the Ari Kurdish language was saved from dying. The Sumerian were Aryans Kurds Sumerian- Kurdish Language (Indo-European Language) Part 1/2 http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xKiwd6Xq3USumerian- Kurdish Language (Indo-European Language) Part 2/2 http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUJF9hhVoRc
Edited by Zagros-Toros - 28-Jan-2015 at 06:58
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Zagros-Toros
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Posted: 28-Jan-2015 at 06:38 |
Kurdish Aries Statue and Grave Stones
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHg7bGJB3Y
Eerie Kurdish Cemetery in Batman, northern Kurdistan
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4A_IR7rmg
Edited by Zagros-Toros - 28-Jan-2015 at 06:47
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Zagros-Toros
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Posted: 28-Jan-2015 at 06:36 |
30-40 thousand years ago people used stone tools, Heritage underground
temple, splendid rock tombs, the continued removal of rock blocks on the
size of the stone quarries is like an open-air museum. Doliche which is
the holiest city of the Kurdish Hittites (Medes) since the Byzantine
era with the archdiocese moved to Zeugma in the 7th century religious
center position is lost. From this date, a new city that was founded
around the Dilok (Kurdish: Dîlok or Ayntap) Kurdish Castle (Median)
Ayintap Dolikh began to take the place of the city and eventually became
a village Ayintap. Finds in Tell Doliche include stone tools from 30-40
thousand years ago. The so-called Dulicien culture is Neolithic. Other
finds in Doliche are an underground Kurdish Mithraic temple, rock
graves, and stone quarries from which giant rock blocks are produced.
During the Hittite period, it was a stop on the road connecting the
Mediterranean to Mesopotamia. It was also a religious center. The
sanctuary of the Hittite god Teshub was just at the north of the village http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pnqvCx7xQEhttp://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZXCpqhO-8E
Edited by Zagros-Toros - 28-Jan-2015 at 06:42
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red clay
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Posted: 18-Aug-2014 at 08:39 |
Take his advice Merd. Only 2 posts and your already on thin ice.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 17-Aug-2014 at 18:46 |
My friendly advice to you is slow down the rhetoric and the quasi insulting language and tone. You have your beliefs others as well. If you don't want to end up like Hemin. Then be easier on the opposition's feelings and position. No one says you have to agree. But you can disagree with more respect.
CV
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Merd Bawer
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Posted: 17-Aug-2014 at 15:22 |
You know de meaning Persian in Kurdish language? It is "Parsek" that means "Beggar" That's all I know about you. See the Kurdish journalist Musa Anter's "Memoirs". To me you Persian were gypsies and came live near around Kurds. I believe in that as I believe in God.
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Merd BAwer
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Merd Bawer
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Posted: 17-Aug-2014 at 14:59 |
KURMANJI
KURDISH PERSIAN ENGLISH SORANI KURDISH GERMAN
Bab, bav* Padar* Father Bab = باب Vater
Dê, Mak Madar Mother Daye = دايه Mutter
Bra Bradar* Brother Bira = برا Bruder
Xweh, xwişk Khwahar Sister **Xwişk= خوشك Schwester
Dot, Keç Dokhtar* Daugther Kiç = کچ Tochter
Mam, Ap Amoo, Mam Paternal uncle Mam = مام Onkel
Dotmam Dokhtar-amoo Uncle's daughter Kiçî mam = کچ مام Onkel Tochter
Kurt, Kin Kutah Short Kurt = كورت Kurz
Qic, Hur Kuchak* Small Çûk = چووک Klein
Kur, Pis Pesar Son Kur = كور مام Sohn
Pismam Pesar Amoo Cousin Kurî mam = كور Sohn des Onkels
Mêr Mard* Man Pyaw= پـيــاو Mann
Dlop Raha Kardan Drop Dlop= دلوپ Tropfen
Hêk Tokhm-margh* Egg Tow = تۆو ,Helka=هيلكه Ei, egg
Stêr Satara Star Astera=ئستره Stern
Anîn Awurdan Bring Hawir=هاور Bringen
Grîn Beriistan Cry Grî = گری Weinen, Schrei
Nû Taza, Jadid(Arabic)* New Nwê = نـوێ Neu
Çav Chashm* Eye Çaw = چاو Auge
Tlî, Pêçî Angusht Finger Pil = پل,Panca= پـنجـه Finger
Agir Atash* Fire Agir= ئاگر Feuer Birçî Gorosnagi Hungry Birsî=بـرسى Begierig,hungrig
Kenîn Khandidan Laugh Kenîn = کـه نين Lachen
Ba Bad Wind Ba = با Blähung, Wind
Baran Baran Rain Baran = باران Regnen
Bahoz Tufan shada* Tempest Boran* = بوران Sturm
Brûsk Barq (Arabic) Lightning Trişka = ترشقه Blitz
Mê Zanana Feminine Mê =مى feminin
Nêr Mardana* Masculine Nêr = نير maskulin
Jîn Zandagi Life Jîn = ژين Leben
Dev Dahan Mouth Dam = ده م Mund
*The words borrowed by Turks.
** The Letter "X" = "Kh" in English.
.......
Dear İnce,
Is that all you know about Kurdish language? Then, let me correct you; that you may lead others to get misinformed.
More than 70% of Kurds Speak Kurmanji (North Kurmanji) and 20% of Kurds speak Sorani (South Kurmanji) And the rest 10% speak other dialects.
The features distinguishing the two dialects (Kurmanji and Sorani) or sub-dialects within each group are mainly morphological. Differences on the phonological level are: (1) the Sorani /I: Î/ contrast does not appear in Kurmanji (as you mentioned in your example), (2) /h / found in some Sorani sub-dialects is lacking in Kurmanji, (3) the Kurmanji aspirated distinction /p, t, k - p, t, k /, probably borrowed from Armenian, is lacking in Sorani, (4) the Kurmanji. "emphatic" (i.e., velarized) consonants /s, t, z/, probably borrowed from Arabic, do not appear in Sorani.
Morphological differences include, among others, (1) the definite suffix -eke appears only in Sorani, (2) the Sorani. verb suffix -ewe appears as preverb ve- in Kurmanji., (3) Sorani. pronominal suffixes -(i)m, -(i)t, etc are lacking in Kurmanji., and (4) the Kurmanji distinction in case (normative and oblique) and gender (masculine and feminine) in nouns and pronouns is lacking in Sorani (some of these distinctions appear to a very Inflated extent in Mukri and other sub-dialects of S.). The rest are mostly the same.
So, just have a look to the new table that re-arranged by me and added Sorani (South Kurmanji) words too. Then tell me, can you see much more difference between the two dialects as you were expected? No, But you can see a lot of similarities between Kurdish and German. In fact, we can even say Kurdish language is more ancient than German.
Let me give some examples: “Door” in Kurdish is “Derî” which comes from the verb “Der ve” meaning “out-side” we can expand the meaning in Kurdish as “(Thing) which separates out-side, the “barrier” the “Derî” which is in German is “Tür”
Lets talk about the word “Brother” that is in Persian “Bradar = برادر " and is in Kurdish Kurmanjî/Sorani “Bira = برا “ the origin of “Bira” might come from “Bi-ra” which means “With/By vein or With/By blood-vessel. So, we can expand it as “(who) comes from the same vein or blood-vessel”. So where goes the “-ther” and “-der” in “Bro-ther” and “Bra-dar”? I can say nowhere in Kurdish. Because ve Kurds already using the word “Der” as “Out-side”
Let's talk about the “New” in Persian is “Taza” or “Jadid = جديد (Arabic Orig.) We Kurds in Kurmanji say “Nû” and in Sorani “Nwê” which is in German “Neu”.
Also the word “Lightning” in Persian is “Barq = برق " which is in Kurdish “Brûsk” and in German is “ Blitz“ that is nothing to do with Persian.
Also the word “Drop„ in Persian is “Raha kardan = رها کردن " that is in Kurdish/Sorani/Kurmanji “Dlop„ and in German “Trop-fen„. They added the "fen" (!)
In Kurdish Kurmancî/Sorani for “Son„ you can use several alternatives such as “Kur, law, pis, role„ but in Persian only “Pusar„ Same for “Daughter you can use either “Dot, keç, qiz„ but in Persian only “Dokhtar„.
So, lets come to other side of the medallion, the Turkish influence. I can prove that you (Turks) borrowed a huge amount of words from foreigners. Lets say 40% from Arabic&Semitic and 35% from Indo-Europeans, and 15% from Mongol, Chinese and Russian, Latin etc. And may be 5% to 10% is pure Turkish. In fact some Turks put forward this idea. Just read this article “Türkçe Diye Bir Dil Yok!” at aykiridogrulardotcom that prepared by Turks.
And also lets inspect the given table and find Indo-Aryan (Kurdish, Persian, etc.) originated words that borrowed by Turks:
Bab
Peder
Brader
Doktor
Küçük
Taze
Çeşme
Tohum
Ateş
Tufan
Boran
Mert
Merdane
To be more clearly, you (Turks) even don't have your OWN word for the “word” and “sentence” that are “Kelime” and “cümle” both are borrowed from Arabs. You imagine the rest ;)
At the end of your article you mentioned “It be like saying the word Goot in German was a loan word from English word Good and the fact is both languages share the same origins”
Then I am asking you: How much you know the German and English history? Do you know that in the ancient times forefathers of Germans immigrated to the UK then afterwards a people so called English formed over there. Isn't it a conflict example given by you?
You better go and get busy with the proposed questions that asked in some other web sites, lets say “Turks are barbarians? Yes with the rest of the World”. Or go and get busy with the Turkish Language and its root “Türkçe Diye Bir Dil Yok! = “There is no such a language called Turkish” that proposed by some Turks.
Dear İnce,
Please think more ince and follow the true path amkp. ;)
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Merd BAwer
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Karlaswagnaz
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Posted: 04-Jun-2014 at 16:49 |
There are better examples in the west, "Aire" means "noble" in Gaelic of Ireland and Scotland, and the Galician people from Spain have some things in common with Gilaki people, look their traditional dresses:
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Stars die and reborn...
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 04-Jun-2014 at 07:35 |
Originally posted by Karlaswagnaz
The Kerman region in Iran was called "Germania" by the Greeks, but I think it's a phonetical coincidence, like the Iberia of the Caucasus and the Iberia of western Europe. |
The interesting thing that there are also several place names in Kerman region which sound like German places, for example look at this page from Unesco website: http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5205/ As you see it talks about Citadel of Bam (Bamberg) and Rhine.
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