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Where was Varna? What does it mean?

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Where was Varna? What does it mean?
    Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 01:04
It was interesting for me when I read it about Indians: http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/101.html
 
The fourth assumption is that the European races were white and had a colour prejudice against the dark races. The Aryans being a European race, it is assumed that it must have had colour prejudice. The theory proceeds to find evidence for colour prejudice in the Aryans who came into India. This it finds in the Chaturvarnya - an institution by the established Indo-Aryans after they came to India and which according to these scholars is based upon Varna which is taken by them to mean colour.
Not one of these assumptions is borne out by facts. Take the premise about the Aryan race. The theory does not take account of the possibility that the Aryan race in the physiological sense is one thing and an Aryan race in philological sense quite different, and that it is perfectly possible that, the Aryan race, if there is one, in the physiological sense may have its habitat in one place and that the Aryan race, in the philological sense, in quite a different place. The theory of the Aryan race is based on the premise of a common language and it is supposed to be common because it has a structural affinity. The assertion that the Aryans came from outside and invaded India is not proved and the premise that the Dasas and Dasyus are aboriginal tribes of India is demonstrably false.
Again, to say that the institution of Chaturvarnya is a reflection of the innate colour prejudice of the Aryans is really to assert too much. If colour is the origin of class distinction, there must be four different colours to account for the different classes, which comprise Chaturvarnya. Nobody has said what those four colours are and who were the four coloured races who were welded together in Chaturvarnya. As it is, the theory starts with only two opposing people, Aryas and Dasas - one assumed to be white and the other assumed to be dark...
Prof. Micheal Foster has somewhere said that 'hypothesis is the salt of science.' Without hypothesis there is no possibility of fruitful investigation. But it is equally true that where the desire to prove a particular hypothesis is dominant, hypothesis becomes the poison of science. The Aryan race theory of Western scholars is as good an illustration of how hypothesis can be the poison of science as one can think of.
The Aryan race theory is so absurd that it ought to have been dead long ago. But far from being dead, the theory has a considerable hold upon the people. There are two explanations which account for this phenomenon. The first explanation is to be found in the support which the theory receives from Brahmin scholars. This is a very strange phenomenon. As Hindus, they should ordinarily show a dislike for the Aryan theory with its express avowal of the superiority of the European races over the Asiatic races. But the Brahmin scholar has not only no such aversion but he most willingly hails it. The reasons are obvious. The Brahmin believes in the two-nation theory. He claims to be the representative of the Aryan race and he regards the rest of the Hindus as descendants of the non-Aryans. The theory helps him to establish his kinship with the European races and share their arrogance and their superiority. He likes particularly that part of the theory which makes the Aryan an invader and a conqueror of the non-Aryan native races. For it helps him to maintain and justify his over lordship over the non-Brahmins.
The second explanation why the Aryan race theory is not dead is because of the general insistence by European scholars that the word Varna means colour and the acceptance of that view by a majority of the Brahmin scholars. Indeed, this is the mainstay of the Aryan theory. There is no doubt that as long as this interpretation of the Varna continues to be accepted the Aryan theory will continue to live. This part of the Aryan theory is therefore very important and calls for fuller examination. It needs to be examined from three different points of view: (1) Were the European races fair or dark? (2) Were the Indo-Aryans fair? (3) What is the original meaning of the word Varna?
 
 
17. The fourteenth of the good lands and countries which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the four-cornered Varena39, for which was born Thraetaona, who smote Azi Dahaka [Zohak].

Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all death, and he counter-created abnormal issues in women40, and barbarian oppression41.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 11:41
As you read here: http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/varna.htm 
 
" The colour (Varna ) of the Brahmans was white, that of the Kshtriyas red, that of the Vaisyas yellow, and that of the Shudras black "
 
 
The caste system in the Vedic culture has probably originated with prehistoric Proto-Indo European peoples. In the framework of the "trifunctional hypothesis" of [[Georges Dum�zil]], the presence of four castes is seen as an indication that the lowest caste consists of the descendants of a subjugated indigenous people, while the original system would have included three castes, priests, warriors and peasants, comparable to the three classes, viz. clergy, nobility and peasants of medieval Europe. The supposed ethnic difference between the castes is supported by the word varna "colour" itself, referring to the darker complexion of the lower castes.
 
There is a city named Varna in Bulgaria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna
 
Theophanes the Confessor first mentioned the name Varna, as the city came to be known with the Slavic conquest of the Balkans in the 6th-7th century. The name may be older than that; perhaps it derives from Proto-Indo-European root we-r- (water)[7] (see also Varuna), or from Proto-Slavic root varn (black), or from Iranian var (camp, fortress: see also Etymological list of provinces of Bulgaria).
 
And about the four-cornered Varena, as you read here: http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=1&id=1613 some say that is modern Varamin and that huge four-cornered fortress in Varamin which is believed to be built by Iraj, son of Thraetaona (Fereydun), the forefather of the Iranians:
 
 
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 19:31
Cyrus, you keep showing us these great fortreses that still exist wihin Iran or the Aryan world! And, as you know, Iran, means Ayran!

I could well show you "wet land" fortresses, that while not exceed your walls in size, but most of all in "complexity!"

There exists within the inter-net world, literally hundreds of sites that place your posts as secondary sites!

But, time and place, sometimes overcomes our own "prejudiceS?"
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:25
Yes, the name "Varna" was given to the city by proto-Bulgars. This is word from proto-Bulgarian origin. It`s absolute fact, because this city was create as greek colony of Miletus around 570 B.C. and named Odessos. This denomination were in use till late Medieval, before proto-Bulgarian arrival. Than even greeks begin to use "Varna" parallel with Odessos (for example Theophanes in his work). For me the origin of the word must be search in Indo-European deity "Varuna" - master of the water. Varna is a large sea port.
  
Odessos was important point of Byzantine empire north of Balkan mountains and army lodgement for raids deep into Bulgarian territory (they easy transport large forces through Byzantine navy supremacy). That`s why one of the major tasks for Bulgarian Kingdom was to take control over the city. Bulgarian army took Varna few times and control it for years. Most spectacular was in 1201 when our army led by Tzar Kaloyan capture the city for just three day of siege using advanced military technology include enormous siege tower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Varna_(1201)
 
Varna today
 
 
 
 


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 27-Feb-2010 at 14:29
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:42
Does the base word "Varna" and its variations, form the basis of the English word "Varnish?"

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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:55
English word in used on the Balkans in around 7th century D.C.! I`m not so sure Smile
 
Opposite variant is also unacceptable. May be word have Germanic root.
 
I think English word "varnish" come from French word "vernis" which have absolute similar meaning. French words in English language are a lot.


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 27-Feb-2010 at 15:25
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 15:57
After doing some inter-net look ups, I have come to the conclusion that the name of the city, etc., means nothing more nor less than; "Protection!"

http://www.woxikon.com/fra/vernis.php

Thus any good sea-port, offers seamen "protection!", or as so many Germanic ports were called "Havens", etc., which might well also be connected to the Biblical word Heaven? A safe harbor,etc.!

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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2010 at 01:34
I found this pictures of Iraj castle near Varamin in Net.
 
 
 
The castle had really strong walls. It is seen by mighty remains  
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2010 at 07:23
"Varna" can be related to "water", in Persian "Varan" means "rain" and I think "Ver" means "sea" in the Old Norse but "-na" (-ana/-an) at the end of the word can be a suffix which forms the names of places or people in the Indo-European languages, like American and Iran (Airyana), so Varna or Varena could be a place name or the name of a people, there are some places with this name in Iran, such as Varna in Isfahan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html and Varna-Kand (Like Samarkand) in Azerbaijan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

"Varna" can be related to "water", in Persian "Varan" means "rain" and I think "Ver" means "sea" in the Old Norse but "-na" (-ana/-an) at the end of the word can be a suffix which forms the names of places or people in the Indo-European languages, like American and Iran (Airyana), so Varna or Varena could be a place name or the name of a people, there are some places with this name in Iran, such as Varna in Isfahan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html and Varna-Kand (Like Samarkand) in Azerbaijan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html


Cyrus, as you wrote above concerning "Ver" or possinly "Var" meaning "Sea", and the "na" ending noting a place, then it is reasonable to make a connection with "Var-na" meaning; Sea-Port, or "Sea Protection", or "Haven", etc.!

As it may pertain to desert areas like Iran and Iraq, etc., then the old analogy of the Camel being the "Ship of the Desert!", is easily applied to caravan "protections?" or "Ports!" It is merely a smart reversal of word play!

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 12:51
Since currently I'm in Varna...I like the connection with water best, makes sence, considering that the city is on the Black Sea.
Accidently, in Bulgarian "var" is the name of whiting lime agent people used t white their houses with here; so the words connect to white color.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2012 at 21:30

There seem to be 2 semi-/separate questions, 1 about Varena (Iranian name/word) and 1 about varna (Indian word/name relating to castes/"colour").

For Varena, varena in Iranian mean heaven/sky (Uranus) [&/or (Yima's) var "cover/cave/Ark"] and it makes sense re the "four-cornered".
[Interestingly it is similar to the Egyptian Urani/Uranes/[wernes] "land of the sunset, though i doubt they are related.]
As mentioned, Varena is one of the 16 lands created by Ahura Mazda.

Airyaneh Vaeja [iran?]
Mouru [meru/mashu?]
Bakhdhi [bactria?]
Vaekerata
Vehrkana
14th/(4-cornered)Varena
Nisaya [nysa?]
Harahvaiti [sarasvati/haurvatat/harut?]
Heatumant [hittites?]
Kakhra
Urva
Haroyu
Ragha [rages?]
Rangha
Hapta-Handu [sind/india].

For varna,

I saw in one source it reckoned that the Indian castes were originally based on merit/vocation but later became skin-colour dominated? Red for kshatriyas like red for blood/war. Not sure if I remember correctly that I also heard that the highest caste was orignally red/kshatriyas one which was later usurped by white/brahmins one?

The Indian [tripartite] castes system of code of Manu (which Dumezil reckoned a distinquishing mark of the Aryans) is connected with the Genesis account of Noah/Madjnun cursing Ham/Canaan to be a slave of Shem, and it is found in many ancient cultures/civilisations.

Peru: 3 eggs/castes/metals (gold, silver, copper);
African: I saw in Unesco book that one people had 3 castes (lost what page);
Western: third estate;
Norse: 3 castes (jarl, karl, thrall/theow);
Greek: spartiates, perioikoi, helots (rough memory only);
Israel/Palestine: 3 castes ('salisha' "third");
Sumer: 3 castes {amelu, mushkinu, wardum/slave}?
Iran: 3 castes/sons of Feridun/Yima (Aria/Eraj, Salm/sayrima, Tur);
India: "3 aryan castes" (kshatriya, brahmin, vishya/vipra) of 4 castes of code of Manu (Manu father of 3 sons Sama/Scherma, Chama, Pra-Japeti/Jyapeti);
Maori: 3 castes (tangata rangitira, tangata-maori/"common", slaves);

The dualism of 2 groups of Arya & Dasyus (below, Devas & Asuras above) is also seemingly perhaps matched in other cultures eg Aesir & Vanir (Norse), Apollonian & Dionysian? Olympian & Titan (Greece), Horus race & Set race (Egypt), seed of woman & seed of serpent (bible), sons of God & daughters of Men (bible)? sons of light & sons of darkness (bible)? sarku/light & admu/dark (sumer), ashavan & drugvan (Iran), shen & kwei (china)? big ears and short ears (Easter Island). Seems to repesent on one hand "in" and "out". But it is confusing because they also/alternatively had non-dualist meaning like "both/and" right & left (hand-path, wing), not a dualistic "either/or".


The 4 colours/castes may also possibly represent the 4 rivers of Eden. Donald MacKenzie showed how cultures connected the 4 ages, 4 castes, 4 metals/colours, 4 compass points/rivers, etc. Egypt also had 4 races Rot/red/Egyptian, Namu/yellow/Asiatic, Nahsu/black/Ethiopian/Nubian, Tamahu/Meshwesh/white/Libyan.
(Interesting that red highest in Egyptian and originally Indian; and that white/silver highest in some and 2nd/silver-age in others?)


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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2012 at 08:45
Warriors like the Viking Halfdan were nicknamed "the Black" if they were particularly ferocious. Medenaywe might be able to tell us if there's a link between black (shvartz) and war (var)
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2012 at 09:04
VaRNa=Enslaved sprout offers!
It was another slaves merchants market place in nearest past...It is my opinion...Big smile
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 11:05
Originally posted by medenaywe

VaRNa=Enslaved sprout offers!
It was another slaves merchants market place in nearest past...It is my opinion...Big smile

Traditionally slaves were swarthy (schwarz/black/dark-skinned) men taken as prisoners of war
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 12:41
Were USA&GB POW in Japan&Germany black all Nick?!?What did Russians use for prisoned soldiers in WW2
?!?Slavery does not depends of skin color&race Nick.
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  Quote longbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 19:58
Well I don't think POW can be called slaves.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 23:46
Geneva convention came long time after longbaby.Enslaved sprout&arm I accept similar as labor market place.Did "slaves" belong to syndicate or not?Who does knows?SmileSlavery exists today also.
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 03:44
i agree slavery exists today and isn't along race/skin lines but socio-economic. At the same time the evidence is that the 3 castes of ancient cultures did come from Noah's cursing.


Edited by Arthur-Robin - 24-Oct-2012 at 08:12
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  Quote longbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 05:40
Taking POWs as slaves reminds me of a prehistoric practice. In premitive era, one purpose of people's starting a war is to get more slaves. According to Hegel, to take more slaves meets one's desire to gain more acknowledgement. I wonder what more POWs imply in a war nowadays.
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