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  Quote Maximus Germanicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: English and other Indo-European languages
    Posted: 05-Jun-2010 at 14:11
Old Dutch was more saxon with the Frankish dialects becoming stronger thru the high middle ages and early modern times. (And closley related to old English) That is what I said in the post. The languages are still very similar due to the saxon background of both.
 
Dutch, like English, has lost the word doe "thou" and replaced it by jij, "you", originally the second person plural. In many Low Saxon dialects in the Netherlands, the very same happened. The doe - ie/ieje/ij isogloss runs surprisingly close to the Dutch border, except in Groningen, where it enters the Dutch territory with a vengeance (in the entire province this word is known). In Twente, it is present in the easternmost villages of Denekamp and Oldenzaal, in de Achterhoek (Gelderland), dou is present in Winterswijk and Groenlo .
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  Quote Maximus Germanicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2010 at 14:23
While yes modern Dutch is low franconian. At the time when Old Dutch was spoken there a lot of Frisian and Low saxon as well as Frank influences, a large part of teh NLDs still speak in old saxon dialect that influences the over all language.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2010 at 15:58
MG, I certainly enjoy your remarks!, as well as the others that have responded to this fragment of remarks!

Do you have any special appreciation of Frisian? It has seemed to me, that this language may have kept itself free of a lot of the mergers that have occured in other language strands? That is, seperated upon mostly barren islands, part of ancient Frisia (Phrygia?) might have kept true or more true to its origin(s) than the surrounding dialects, etc.?

Do you agree with some historians that Freisian/ Frisian means "free" or "freedom?"

I hope you see by my used of "PH" that I point to that mostly mysterous land of Phrygia, whereby, we are now told that the famous "Cap of Liberty", or "Phrygian Cap", or "Liberty Cap?", supposedly originated!

Can you see any connection at all? Afterall, we are told that this very "hat device", seems to have existed for over 1,000 years mostly unchanged! Even Pre-Roman religion seems to have adopted it?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2010 at 22:24
Originally posted by Maximus Germanicus

While yes modern Dutch is low franconian. At the time when Old Dutch was spoken there a lot of Frisian and Low saxon as well as Frank influences, a large part of teh NLDs still speak in old saxon dialect that influences the over all language.
 
Note that MG  finally realizes ( at least here ) that Dutch is Low Franconian and not Low Saxon as he  claimed before. Clap 
 
Old Dutch was not simply influenced by Frankish :  it was Frankish ( "Old Dutch "  is Old West Low Franconian evolving out of Old Frankish ) and evolved in Middle Dutch and Modern Dutch . Old-, Middle- and modern Dutch are all Low  Franconian.
 
 
 
 
 
 
2


Edited by Sander - 07-Jun-2010 at 12:57
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2010 at 05:23
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

One interesting thing about the Dutch language is the "gh" sound, there are a few words in Persian langauge which begin with the letter "gh", most of them are similar to the Dutch one:
 
Persian English Dutch
   
    
   
   
l     
     
    
Ghelak   Laugh   Gelach
Wow. We still use 'Gelak' for 'Laugh' in modern colloquial Malay. Now only I know where the term came from.
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2010 at 18:13
MG . This is an informal warning
 
You made  9 posts in a row in this thread, most pretty long. Such is  absurd in a discussion . It disrupts  and  borders on hysteria. 

 
Dont post anymore here. I will make a  special thread for this issue . Some of this debate will be moved to that one and continue soon.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sander - 06-Jun-2010 at 18:50
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  Quote mercurybc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2010 at 19:15
Some Persian Words Common With Other Indoeuropean Languages (Cognate Words) :
This is my own compilation from various sources or my own research, and still i am adding to them :

1  KISS , persian : boosse , spanish :  beso , french : baiser , italian : bacio , lithuanian : bucinys
2  THUNDER , persian : tondar , german : donner
3  KNEE , persian : zanu , hindi : janu , french : genou
4  BREAST or CHEST , persian : sineh , italian : seno , french : sein
5  CRY , persian : geryeh , swedish : grata , french : cri , german : schrei   
6  RAIN ,  persian : baran
7  THROAT , persian : galoo , italian : gola , hindi : gela , slovenian : grlo , polish : gardlo , croatian : grlo
8   BALD , persian : kal (in older generations language) , italian : calvo , german : kahl , dutch : kaal , catalan : calb , finnish : kalju , spanish : calvo
9  CORPSE , persian : lasheh , german : leiche , hindi : lash
10  ON FOOT , persian : piadeh , french : a pied , italian : a piedi
11  SHAME , persian : sharm , german : scham , swedish : scam  
12  ENOUGH , persian : bass , italian & spanish : basta
13  GOOSE , persian : ghaaz , danish : gas , swedish : gas , spanish : ganso , slovenian : gos
14  LICK , persian : liss , polish : lizac , slovenian : lizati
 15  MORGUE , persian : marg = death
 16  DEAD , persian : mordeh , french : mort , italian : morto
 17  JACKAL , persian : shaghal , finnish : sakaali , french : chacal , italian : sciacallo , swedish : schakal
18  THAT , persian : ke , french : que , italian : che , hindi : ki
19  WHO , persian : ki , french : qui , italian : che
20  WHAT , persian : che or che chizi , italian : che cosa
 21  MOTHER , persian : madar , italian : madre , spanish : madre , dutch : moeder , french : mere , swedish : mor , slovenian : mati   
22  Another old word for MOTHER , persian : maam , welsh : mam , english : mom or mum
23  FATHER , persian : pedar , italian : padre , german : vater , dutch : vader
24  DAUGHTER , persian : dokhtar , german : tochter , dutch : dochter , danish : datter
25  BROTHER , persian : baradar , german : bruder
26  SISTER , persian : khahar (but written khwahar) and in rural persian pronounced khwaer , welsh : chwaer (literally pronounced khwaer)  
27  TOOTH , persian : dandan , italian : dente , french : dent , lithuanian : dantis
28  TWO , persian : do , spanish : dos , italian : duo , lithuanian : du , hindi : do , french : deux
 29  FOUR , Persian : chahar , irish : ceathair (pronounced ka-hir)  
30  FIVE , persian : panj , hindi : panch , greek : penta
31  SIX , persian : shish or shesh , latvian :  seši (seshi) , lithuanian : šeši (sheshi) , polish : sześć (shesc) , romanian : şase (shasse) , russian :  sheyst  , slovak : šesť (shest) ,  irish :  sé (pronounced shay)
32  EIGHT , persian : hasht , german : acht , irish : ocht , hindi : aat
33NINE , persian : noh , italian : nove , hindi : no , french : neuf , german : neun , irish : naoi , swedish: nio
34  SIXTY , persian : shast , russian : sheyst dee syaat , slovak :  šesťdesiat (shestdesiat)  , sanskrit : sasta  
35  NEW , persian : no , german : neu , italian : nuovo , hindi : neya , irish : nua , norvegian : nye , romanian : nou ,  russian : nawvee
36  NO , persian : nah , romanian : nu , lithuanian : ne
37  PONDER , persian : pendar , spanish : pensar , portuguese : pensar , italian : pensare ,  french : penser  
38  INTER , persian : andar , dutch : onder , german : unter
39  STAR , persian : setareh , dutch : ster , italian : stella , german : stern
40  IS , persian : ast , german : ist , french : est , spanish : es
 41  NOT or IS NOT , persian : nist , french : n'est ,  german : nicht
 42  YOU or THOU , persian : to , italian : tu , slovenian : ti , german : du , hindi : to
 43  I , persian : man , finnish : minä  
44  NAME , persian : naam , german : name , hindi : naam , italian : nome , french : nom
45  MOUSE , persian : mush , italian : mouse (pronounced mu - ze) , dutch : muis , croatian : mish , russian : mysh
46  WATER , persian : aab , old persian : ap ,  romanian :  apă , sanskrit : aapah , in rural persian : "o" , french : eau
 47  CHIN , persian : chaaneh
48  DOOR , persian : dar , dutch : deur
49  YOUNG , persian : javan , italian : giovane , french : jeune , lithuanian : jaunas , sanskrit : yuvan
 50  EARTH , persian : zamin or zemin , avestan persian : zem ,  latvian : zeme , polish : ziemia , czech : země ,russian : zimliah
51  COW , persian : gav , sanskrit : go or gau
52  YOKE , persian : yough , german : joch
53  DEVIL , persian : div , italian : diavolo
54  STAND , persian : istadan , lithuanian : stendas , old english : standan
 55  NAVEL , persian : naf , icelandic : nafla , estonian : naba , finnish : napa , german : nabel
 56  NAVE , persian : nav , italian : navata , french : nef
57  LIP , persian : lab , spanish : labio , italian : labbro , portoguese : labio , danish : læbe
  58  FAR , persian : fara (of course used as a prefix as :  faratar= farther, faragard ,farayand, and actual word for far in persian is dur)
59  WOMAN , persian : zan , croatian : žena , czech : žena ,  slovak : žena , kurdish : jin  
60  WOMAN  , persian : banu (meaning lady) , greek : bena , celtic : bean, benw , benyw (welsh)
 61  STATE , persian : ostan , polish : stan , croatian : stanje , icelandic : astand
 62  STONE , irish : cloch , persian : clooch or clookh (of course doesn't mean stone , but means fist size pieces of hardened and dried mud on outdoors)
63  MIDDLE or AVERAGE , persian : myaan or myaangin , french : moyen or moyenne , english : mean
64  ANT , persian : moor , russian : moo raa vey , icelandic : maur , finnish : muurahainen , norwegian : maur , danish : myre , dutch : mier , bosnian : mrav
65  TABLE , persian : miz , slovenian : miza , spanish : mesa , romanian : masă , bulgarian : masa , hindi : mez
66  SLIPPERY or  SMOOTH : persian : liz , french : lisse , portuguese : liso ,  italian : liscio ,  basque : deslizamientos , catalan : Lliscant , croatian : Kliženje
67  NAIL , persian : nakhon , sanskrit : nakha , german : nagel
 68  SILVER , persian : sim , greek : asimi
 69  BRANCH (of a tree) , persian : shakheh , sanskrit : shaakha , lithuanian : šaka , hindi : shaaka
70  FACE , persian : chehreh , middle english. : chere ,  old french : chiere , spanish : cara ..."cheer" in modern english also is from the same root, "be of good cheer," means, "put on a happy face."   
 71  KEY , persian : cleed or keleed , french : clé , czech : klíč , greek : kleidi , spanish : clave
72  SAINT , avestan persian : espand , romanian : sfânt , sânt , spanish : santo
73  JUNGLE , persian : jangal , sanskrit : jangala (जंगल) which referred to uncultivated land , hindi : jangal , german : dschungel , russian : džúngli
74  ORANGE , persian : nārang , sanskrit नारङ्ग (nāranga), meaning “orange tree" ,  spanish : naranja
75  NOW , persian : aknun , middle persian : nun , german : nun , latin : nunc , danish : nu , dutch : nu , avestan : nû
 76  FAIRY , persian  :  pari , armenian : p’eri  
 77  FROM , persian : az or ze , croatian : iz , polish : z , slovenian : iz
78  CHILDREN , persian : bachegan , welsh : bachgen (child , little boy)
79  AM or I AM , persian : hastam , polish : yestem , czech : ysem
 80  WE ARE ,  persian : hastim , spanish : estamos , slovak : sme  
81  YOU ARE (sing.) , persian : hasti , croatian : ste , czech : yste , lithuanian : esate , macedonian : ste , polish : yestes , portuguese : esta , slovak : ste  
82  CANDLE , persian : kandeel or ghandeel (a box or pot to let a candle  shine in it)
 83  BURG (castle) , persian : borj (tower) , swedish : borg (castle, tower) , danish : borg
84   BE AS A PREFIX , persian : beravam , begoft , benush, etc...., english : behold , become , beloved, german : bearbeiten ,benutzen , bemerken, etc....notice that BE functions in three languages the same ,i.e., with or without that BE the verbs meaning is almost the same ,and that BE seems to work just for emphasis
 
85  MURDER , persian : mord = died , german : mord , swedish : mord , scottish : mort dutch : moord
86  EQUAL , persian : yeki (to be one and the same)(yek = one) , sanskrit :eka = one , german : egal
87  MY , old persian : manā ....  in persian "man" means "i" and as you will see here in numorous indo-european languages the word for "my" is a derivative of that "man" in persian meaning "i" as follows....   lithuanian : mano ,  latvian : mans  , danish : min , dutch : mijn , estonian : minu , finnish : minun , french : mon , german : meine , icelandic : mina , irish : mo ,  norvegian : min , swedish : min ,
88   WE , persian : ma , kurdish : me , slovenian : me , estonian : me ,  latvian : mēs , lithuanian : mes , croatian : mi , russian : mee (pronounced sort of moey)
89  MAN (adult male) , persian : mard , old persian : martya , armenian : mard = husband , italian : marito = husband , spanish : marido= husband
90  ORDER (command) , persian : ord  , middle persian : ard ,old persian : arta , portuguese : ordem , spanish : orden , scottish gaelic : òrdugh 
91  FOOT , persian : pa , old persian : pad , french : pied ,  greek ; podi or pato , italian : piede , latvian : pēda , portuguese : pé ...pedal  and pedicure and etc. are from the same root
92  CHEEK , persian : gouneh , latin : gena , welsh : genou , greek : genus
93  WINTER , persian : zemestan , avestan : zimo , polish : zima , latvian : ziemas , lithuanian : žiema, croatian : zima , czech : zimni , russian : zeemaa
94   STERILE (incapable of producing offspring) , persian : starvan ,  sanskrit : stari , greek : steiros , gothic : stairo , slovenian : sterilne , 
95  SEVEN , persian : haft , avestan : hapta , greek : hepta
96   ROOT (of a plant) , persian : risheh or risha , greek : riza , spanish : raiz , portuguese : raiz
97  BROW (eyebrow) , persian : abru , croatian : obrva , polish : brew , sanskrit : bhrū , old english : brū


Some words that still  not sure of their connection , but strongly there is a chance of connection : RUSTIC , persian : rusta (village) , ROB , persian : roba {robber, as delroba (robber of heart, love)},robudan (to rob)
PERISH , persian : parish (depressed, shooed away  and scattered) , CHAMBER , persian : chambareh


My resources : Google translate , Wiktionary (translations part of every word in wiktionary has translation of each word almost in all languages), also many other sources,also i have discovered many of these words connections by myself...

 

Edited by mercurybc - 26-Jul-2010 at 21:02
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2010 at 22:20
English   Urdu
grass      guhass

nose      naak

eye      aank

Just for starters. There's a whole bunch of other words i can post if you like
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2010 at 22:37

As a side note, Albanian, Greek and Armenian are classified as Indo European languages. They are also Indo European isolates, meaning that they are not part of a family tree.  For example French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish.

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  Quote Raspy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2010 at 21:37
Interesting I never heard in Hindi the word "Vaha" said, and I don't think Hindi even has a word for he or she. Its mostly a combination of words like  "This person", "That man" or "his".  Also..

English    Hindi
Tomato Tomatel
Jungle     Jungle (Just different pronunciation, and also means wild)

Mostly, I think its just imported words that were traded off between languages.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2010 at 17:01
Dear Sander, earlier you wrote;

"Dont post anymore here. I will make a special thread for this issue . Some of this debate will be moved to that one and continue soon."

And soon after Maximus Germanicus was banned! Did you have a part in his banning?

And, maybe I missed it, but could you point out the thread that you were to create to replace this one?
Regards,

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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2010 at 23:13
Originally posted by mercurybc


Some Persian Words Common With Other Indo-European Languages (Cognate Words) :
These are my own compilations from various sources or my own research, and still I am adding to them :


you added Estonian a non-Indo-European language in your list of IE cognates. Though Finnish and Estonian do use the m consonant in first person reference (miinna means me in finnish if a remember correctly)  most linguists believe they are borrowed due to their speakers living in a mostly IE speaking continent.
 


Edited by PakistaniShield - 23-Nov-2010 at 23:15
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2012 at 11:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

These are some personal pronouns in English and some other Indo-European languages:
 
English Avestan Greek Latin Persian Armenian Hindi German Irish Polish
You Yuzh Esi Tu To Du Tu Du Tu Ty
He Hi Avtos Is Ou Na Vaha Er Se On
We Vae Emeis Nos Ma Menk Ham Wir Muid My
 
Which one do you think to be more similar to English?


Let me put it this way: Ego is Greek for "I". Titan is Greek for....Titan and Me is Greek for ....."me".Embarrassed
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 14:07
As Cryptic stated, Albanian, Greek and Armenian are classified as Indo European languages.
I am not 100% sure abour Armenian, but both Albanian and Greek do not belong to any branch like the Italic, Germanic, Slavic and Celtic languages do. They are just two languages on their own. 


Edited by TITAN_ - 07-Mar-2013 at 14:11
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2013 at 17:21
Originally posted by TITAN_

As Cryptic stated, Albanian, Greek and Armenian are classified as Indo European languages.
I am not 100% sure abour Armenian, but both Albanian and Greek do not belong to any branch like the Italic, Germanic, Slavic and Celtic languages do. They are just two languages on their own. 


Armenian is an individual IE language yes. Albanian is claimed to be the last of an Illyrian language family though this claim is disputed. Greek may have belonged to the Hellenic family of languages though it's the last.
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  Quote TITAN_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2013 at 12:45
Greek definitely derives from the Hellenic (=Greek) family of languages and it has been attested since 1500 BC, thanks to Linear B inscriptions. 
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
Een aristevin
“Ever to Excel“
From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC).
Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others.
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