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Kurdish ancestry: what is true, and what isn't?

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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kurdish ancestry: what is true, and what isn't?
    Posted: 30-Mar-2010 at 17:49
Originally posted by Messopotamian

Kurds's ancestors is  " Medes,Hurrians,Mittanians" and of course " Carduchians " ( Kardux )
My 2 dirham's worth:
 
The Carduchi would have been the most direct ancestor, I believe. The name just says it all, doesn't it?
 
Corduene (a.k.a. Gorduene, Cordyene, Cardyene, Carduene, Gordyene, Gordyaea, Korduene, Korchayk, Gordian) was an ancient region located in northern Mesopotamia. present-day southeastern Turkey.
 
According to the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica Gordyene is the ancient name of the region of Bohtan (now Sirnak Province). It is mentioned as Beth Qardu in Syriac sources and is described as a small vassal state between Armenia and Persia in the mountainous area south of Lake Van in modern Turkey. Corduene must also be sought on the left bank of the Tigris.
 
It has been cited as the country of the Carduchians, a fertile mountainous district, rich in pasturage. The three principalities of Corduene, Moxoene and Zabdicene are referred to as Carduchian dynasties by Toumanoff. The Kingdom of Gordyene emerged from the declining Seleucid Empire  and for most of its history, it was a province of the Roman Empire. and acknowledged the sovereignity of Rome. From 189 to 90 BC it enjoyed a period of independence.
 
The people of Gorduene were known to have worshipped Teshub, the Sky God of the Hurrians.
 
According to Arshak Safrastian, the Medes and Scythians mentioned in classical Greek literature existed only as preconceived notions. Equating the Carduchi with the Gutians, he adds that the moment the Ten Thousand began to skirt the lower slopes of the Hamrin Mountains, they were in contact with the tribes of Gutium which are presented here as Medes or Scythians.
 
Targum, a Jewish source of the Talmudic period, consistently understood Ararat to be located in Gorduene and not in Armenia. This region is usually identified as the landing site in the Huge Deluge mythology. While according to Aggadah, Noah landed in Korduene in Armenia. Berossus was also of the opinion that Xisthros landed with his ship in Korduene. Josephus cited the evidence of Berossus as proof that the Big Flood story was not a myth and also mentioned that the remains of the ark were still visible in the distric of Carron, presumably identified with Korduene.


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 30-Mar-2010 at 18:27
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 17:30
Once upon a time there was a huge country called IRAN. this country was from china  and india  to caucasus in north .this country was home to many different iranian peoples  mainly  pers, median(kurd and lurs) and all  other lesser iranian and non iranian people in between.
 in our days when in europe  many different nations with different ethnical group and  languages(slavs, latins, germans,scandinavians and more)  have build EC to have a larger more economical powerful community without borders , then we are seeking to see how different is a kurd from a fars or a  lur from a kurdStern Smile .
 Romans had a good preverb divide and govern. 
some where i saw on internet that lurs want have their own state too and naturally ballochs too.
 i vote for free republic of qazvin LOOOL. 


Edited by kalhur - 08-Apr-2010 at 17:36
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 17:58
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

Originally posted by Messopotamian

Kurds's ancestors is  " Medes,Hurrians,Mittanians" and of course " Carduchians " ( Kardux )
My 2 dirham's worth:
 
The Carduchi would have been the most direct ancestor, I believe. The name just says it all, doesn't it?
 
Corduene (a.k.a. Gorduene, Cordyene, Cardyene, Carduene, Gordyene, Gordyaea, Korduene, Korchayk, Gordian) was an ancient region located in northern Mesopotamia. present-day southeastern Turkey.
 
According to the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica Gordyene is the ancient name of the region of Bohtan (now Sirnak Province). It is mentioned as Beth Qardu in Syriac sources and is described as a small vassal state between Armenia and Persia in the mountainous area south of Lake Van in modern Turkey. Corduene must also be sought on the left bank of the Tigris.
 
It has been cited as the country of the Carduchians, a fertile mountainous district, rich in pasturage. The three principalities of Corduene, Moxoene and Zabdicene are referred to as Carduchian dynasties by Toumanoff. The Kingdom of Gordyene emerged from the declining Seleucid Empire  and for most of its history, it was a province of the Roman Empire. and acknowledged the sovereignity of Rome. From 189 to 90 BC it enjoyed a period of independence.
 
The people of Gorduene were known to have worshipped Teshub, the Sky God of the Hurrians.
 
According to Arshak Safrastian, the Medes and Scythians mentioned in classical Greek literature existed only as preconceived notions. Equating the Carduchi with the Gutians, he adds that the moment the Ten Thousand began to skirt the lower slopes of the Hamrin Mountains, they were in contact with the tribes of Gutium which are presented here as Medes or Scythians.
 
Targum, a Jewish source of the Talmudic period, consistently understood Ararat to be located in Gorduene and not in Armenia. This region is usually identified as the landing site in the Huge Deluge mythology. While according to Aggadah, Noah landed in Korduene in Armenia. Berossus was also of the opinion that Xisthros landed with his ship in Korduene. Josephus cited the evidence of Berossus as proof that the Big Flood story was not a myth and also mentioned that the remains of the ark were still visible in the distric of Carron, presumably identified with Korduene.


The problem I have with the Carduchia is that it does not explain the Linguastic similarties between  Kurdish and the other Iranian langauges like Modern Persian,Lur and Balouchi who live on the other side of Iran and Kurds share the most linguastic similarties with.  The Carduchia were most of the time under Roman and Byzantine rule.  Also it was small and did not comprise all the places that Kurds live like in West of Iran.   Even after the Islamic invasion most of the time most Kurds were not under Iranian control.  Kurds of Anatolia and Northern Iraq have for the most of the 1000 years been under Ottoman and Arab control.
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 18:32
Also Cyrtii should be included as well as the name sounds more like the way Kurds prounounce it Kurdi.

http://www.iranica.com/articles/iran-v2-peoples-pre-islamic

"The Cyrtii (see CYRTIANS; Str., 11.13.3, 15.3.1) are called one of the Persian tribes by Strabo (see above) and are not labeled as predatory. The putative ancestors of the Kurds and Lurs, as such they would belong to the Aryan-speaking category. They may already have been well distributed in the Zagros from Persia into Media, though not yet as far as Gordyene above the upper Tigris or Azerbaijan (Media Atropatene). The Kurds would be firmly ensconced as a major people of the Zagros by the end of the Sasanian period, when they formed part of the forces opposing the Arab invaders."
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 19:30
Originally posted by kalhur

Once upon a time there was a huge country called IRAN. this country was from china  and india  to caucasus in north .this country was home to many different iranian peoples  mainly  pers, median(kurd and lurs) and all  other lesser iranian and non iranian people in between.
 in our days when in europe  many different nations with different ethnical group and  languages(slavs, latins, germans,scandinavians and more)  have build EC to have a larger more economical powerful community without borders , then we are seeking to see how different is a kurd from a fars or a  lur from a kurdStern Smile .
 Romans had a good preverb divide and govern. 
some where i saw on internet that lurs want have their own state too and naturally ballochs too.
 i vote for free republic of qazvin LOOOL. 


LOL its complicated.

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 19:41
TGS, in your great excellency, why don't you explain everything to the others?

It would, of course, be a magnamious act!

My regards, as always,
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  Quote Zert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2010 at 13:54
As you're discussing the Carduchi, what do you think of this?
I stumbled on this site when trying to find some more about Kurdish mythology (something of which I couldn't find a whole lot)
http://hevallo.blogspot.com/2008/04/in-memory-of-halil-uysal-kurdish.html
In the article, they say that it's probably remains from the Carduchi, but how does it look to you? (it hasn't been verified by historians/archaeologists)

Also 2 other things:
An older video, about a supposed Median king, I'm no expert, but that looks quite fake, what do you think?
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2008/11/mummy-king-of-ancient-kurdistan.html

Is there any plausibility in an Elamite-Kurdish connection?
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2008/10/elamite-vs-ezidi-scripts.html
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2010 at 18:32
Originally posted by Zert

As you're discussing the Carduchi, what do you think of this?
I stumbled on this site when trying to find some more about Kurdish mythology (something of which I couldn't find a whole lot)
http://hevallo.blogspot.com/2008/04/in-memory-of-halil-uysal-kurdish.html
In the article, they say that it's probably remains from the Carduchi, but how does it look to you? (it hasn't been verified by historians/archaeologists)


The culture could of been their long before the existence of the Carduchi.  As many dynastys have come and gone before the Medes arrived.

The Carduchi were most likely absorbed into the current groups that are called Kurds.  When the Carduchi existed, their were Kurds in the Kermanshah provance as well.

The thing is not much is known about Kurdish history before the Arab Invasion.  Today most likely Kurds are a collection of Iranian tribes that came together and the mordern Kurds were born.   On linguastic Gorani and Zazaki is a different langauge to Kurmanji and Sorani.   Also according to linguastic experts, Kurmanji and Sorani lean towards Persian as well which Gorania and Zazaki don't, which means at one time Kurds were much closer to Persians.

Originally posted by Zert


Also 2 other things:
An older video, about a supposed Median king, I'm no expert, but that looks quite fake, what do you think?
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2008/11/mummy-king-of-ancient-kurdistan.html


I've seen that before, it looks fake no doubt.

Originally posted by Zert


Is there any plausibility in an Elamite-Kurdish connection?
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2008/10/elamite-vs-ezidi-scripts.html


I do not think Kurds have any relations with the Elamites.  Most likely Kurds who live near the areas that the Elamite lived, will no doubt have part ancestory of Elamites.   Plus the Elamites were dark skinned like Dravidians, this can be seen on reliefs at Darius Palace in Susa.

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 12:15
As concerns the last words of "Ince" above, I have looked at some photos of the reliefs at the Palace of Darius at Susa, and I do not really note any "dravadian" features!

See at; http://www.biblelandpictures.com/gallery/gallery.asp?action=browse&categoryid=56&whichpage=4 You can see what the camera sees! I may see men with dark faces, but these men lived in what was basically a high desert area! The lived possibly in tents most of the time, and they were exposed to the sun more than the high-born! Certainly, even if the tinting given to the exposed reliefs today are exactly how they were originally rendered, is a small but important part!

So, if I am correct, from what source do you determine that the "Elamoted were dark skinned like Dravidians?"


Sorry, I just seem to question most everthing and everyone! Except those whose ideas comform to mine! Laugh!

Regards,

Oh! By the way! I meant to also show this site; http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/susa/index.htm

In it you can find a photograph from the air of Susa ca. 1935 and another from 2009! Just what happened? Did Iraq cause this? Did the Shah of Iran? Did the USA? Did the Soviet Union, or England, or Germany? Just what caused this great complex to "melt?"

Could it really be the callousness of the native Iranians? Or, could it possibly be that these ruins are not really as old as we have been told?

Edited by opuslola - 13-Apr-2010 at 12:27
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 13:20
Originally posted by opuslola

As concerns the last words of "Ince" above, I have looked at some photos of the reliefs at the Palace of Darius at Susa, and I do not really note any "dravadian" features!

See at; http://www.biblelandpictures.com/gallery/gallery.asp?action=browse&categoryid=56&whichpage=4 You can see what the camera sees! I may see men with dark faces, but these men lived in what was basically a high desert area! The lived possibly in tents most of the time, and they were exposed to the sun more than the high-born! Certainly, even if the tinting given to the exposed reliefs today are exactly how they were originally rendered, is a small but important part!

So, if I am correct, from what source do you determine that the "Elamoted were dark skinned like Dravidians?"


Sorry, I just seem to question most everthing and everyone! Except those whose ideas comform to mine! Laugh!

Regards,

Oh! By the way! I meant to also show this site; http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/susa/index.htm

In it you can find a photograph from the air of Susa ca. 1935 and another from 2009! Just what happened? Did Iraq cause this? Did the Shah of Iran? Did the USA? Did the Soviet Union, or England, or Germany? Just what caused this great complex to "melt?"

Could it really be the callousness of the native Iranians? Or, could it possibly be that these ruins are not really as old as we have been told?


I am not entirely sure they were but the reliefs do look as if they had dark skin and not like tanned.   Also "Cyrus Shahmiri" posted this http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28033&PID=628273#628273

Is when I suspected they were dark skinned.  Also I read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamo-Dravidian . 

Also I am pretty sure their were dark skinned people living in West Asia.  I've even seen Kurds who look indian and many Turks from Turkey as well.  I remember when I was young their was a Kurdish family who lived close by us.  I still remember asking my mother why do they look like Indian?.

I have not looked into the Elamites much so I am not certain in my view that they were Dark.
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  Quote ideas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 13:30
In regards to kurds in sryia, well we are oppresed there too.. can't speak kurdish, cant study kurdish and no basic rights..

People get killed in every newroz..

In iran.. well its somewhat better, however we've recently seen an increase in drugs given out to kurdish youth by the goverment.. so...

I don't understand why, iran does not help us create a kurdistan outside of iran, as then we will have more iranic states.. why is iran so bothered with palestine? as if arabs dont have enough states?

In regards to kurds and jews, the tests showed that some kurds have similar dna to sheperdic jews..

P.S look here for some kurds: http://www.flickr.com/photos/44738189@N08/

Those kind of kurds make up 30% of kurds..
80% of kurds are white
20% of kurds are dark


Edited by ideas - 16-Apr-2010 at 13:36
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 16:18
Originally posted by ideas

In regards to kurds in sryia, well we are oppresed there too.. can't speak kurdish, cant study kurdish and no basic rights..

People get killed in every newroz..

In iran.. well its somewhat better, however we've recently seen an increase in drugs given out to kurdish youth by the goverment.. so...

I don't understand why, iran does not help us create a kurdistan outside of iran, as then we will have more iranic states.. why is iran so bothered with palestine? as if arabs dont have enough states?

In regards to kurds and jews, the tests showed that some kurds have similar dna to sheperdic jews..

P.S look here for some kurds: http://www.flickr.com/photos/44738189@N08/

Those kind of kurds make up 30% of kurds..
80% of kurds are white
20% of kurds are dark


Actually Iran did help the Kurds in the past 50 years but Iran stabbed them in them back both times.  First it was the Sha of Iran in 1975 when he helped the Kurds fight the Iraqi government then the Sha signed a peace agreement with Iraq in which he helped them fight against the Kurds.   Whats funny is that Musta Barzani was once quoted for saying "Where ever Kurds are it is Iran" but that was before the Sha turned agaisnt the Kurds.

Kurds even helped Iran in the Iran-Iraq war and all they got was a gas attack that killed thousands.  Even after that Iran still did not support the Kurdish cause.   All they are focused on today is Palestine.



Edited by Ince - 16-Apr-2010 at 16:19
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 16:51
Actually Iran did help the Kurds in the past 50 years but Iran stabbed them in them back both times.  First it was the Sha of Iran in 1975 when he helped the Kurds fight the Iraqi.

well it is true in some extent, but not all the truth, i remember that because i was living att that time in iran -irak border. the help was much giving possibillty to  the iraqi kurd peshmerga to come from iraq inside iran for treatment of wounded and it was possible for kurds from iran to participate in the war beside iraqi kurds and it was not of real great help  neither because they were not familiar with the kurdish area in iraq and coulden't fight well due to lack of knowledge about fighting ground.  many many young men from our side went there and they come back in coffinUnhappy. so much as nearly every day during hard fights.  anyway maybe  iranian gave some help with ammo  too but, it was all not iranian army  helping directly or  in great extend, but it was enough to keep iraqi army out of kurdish mountains in iraq and kurdish peshmerga in iraq could survive as they  happily did  ,


Edited by kalhur - 16-Apr-2010 at 17:12
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  Quote Azadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 17:31
Which party from East-Kurdistan got their peshmerge into South-Kurdistan, to fight the Iraqi regime ? Would be nice if you could share this with me.

I know the PDKI sent alot of peshmerge-families into South-Kurdistan, so that Iran would stop shelling South-Kurdistan's mountains and villages. But none of them participated in the war, or even fired a bullet - but still a lot of them did get killed by Irani assassins, and Kurdish traitors. PKK got the same offer from President Barzani, they accepted it too, but they actually participated in the war and retaliated pretty heavy on whoever attacked their camps, Iraqi, Kurd, Irani or whatever nationality.

Also I would like to point out that Irans "help" was not for the sake of the Kurdish people, not at all, and I'm sure it will always stay that way - at least under the current brainwashing regime.
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  Quote ideas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 04:25
How many kurds here from kermanshah?
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 04:47
at that time i was at iranian ghasre shirin city and  i saw many young guys were recruted from tribes around the border inside iran . often very young from tirbes surrounding. jaff, goran, ghalkhani ,kalhor even feyli(LORES. for this matter SADDAM  has killed thousends of civilian feyli tribes living in khanaghin area for revenging. it is very known fact.)
. they gave them an old brno  rifle and 60 rounds 7,9 cal cartridges and send them to the other side of border . they came back very soon often in coffin.Unhappy
 there was a an iranian military hospital in the border  run by iran and it was overcrowded by wounded.
 i talked to the doctors and they were very  sad and uppset about amount of wounded and killed. those guys were very poorly armed with old brno rifle and  faced baath army which was armed with klashnikof and most modern autmatic rifles and  had artilery and air support.
 att that time nobdy talked about pkk (1967) and  the late mustafa barzani was  very friendly to iran and iranians as he mentioned  himself.
at that time i wonder if PKK was  allready operationell in turkey in 1960-1970?? did they??
many kurds mainly muslim in iran and iraq do not trust communists and i understand if they don't like PKK.
 i don't call them traitor it is a term often used by PKK Wink reffering to non communist kurds. please be carful by using this term , because it is often the word to discribe PKK in our region They call them communist inflitrator people LOL


Edited by kalhur - 17-Apr-2010 at 05:01
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  Quote ideas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 05:00
Originally posted by kalhur

at that time i was at iranian ghasre shirin city and  i saw many young guys were recruted from tribes around the border inside iran . often very young from tirbes surrounding. jaff, goran, ghalkhani ,kalhor even feyli(LORES. for this matter SADDAM  has killed thousends of civilian feyli tribes living in khanaghin area for revenging. it is very known fact.)
. they gave them an old brno  rifle and 60 rounds 7,9 cal cartridges and send them to the other side of border . they came back very soon often in coffin.Unhappy
 there was a an iranian military hospital in the border  run by iran and it was overcrowded by wounded.
 i talked to the doctors and they were very  sad and uppset about amount of wounded and killed. those guys were very poorly armed with old brno rifle and  faced baath army which was armed with klashnikof and most modern autmatic rifles and  had artilery and air support.
 att that time nobdy talked about pkk (1967) and  the late mustafa barzani was  very friendly to iran and iranians as he mentioned  himself.
at that time i wonder if PKK was operationell in turkey??
many kurds mainly muslim in iran and iraq do not trust communists and i understand if they don't like PKK.
 i don't call them traitor it is a term often used by PKK Wink reffering to non communist kurds. please be carful by using this term , because it is often the word to discribe PKK in our region They call them communist inflitrator people LOL


WE dont agree with terrorism used by PKK, however I agree 100% with their cuase, they are fighting for kurds!!!!

When barzani was asked, will you use military operations againts PKK, he said "I support a peacefull solution, however I will not attack my fellow kurds for any other countries sake" that applies to any kurdish party fighting for kurds, kermanshah kurds go to hell! danm jash!
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 05:09
Originally posted by kalhur

at that time i was at iranian ghasre shirin city and  i saw many young guys were recruted from tribes around the border inside iran . often very young from tirbes surrounding. jaff, goran, ghalkhani ,kalhor even feyli(LORES. for this matter SADDAM  has killed thousends of civilian feyli tribes living in khanaghin area for revenging. it is very known fact.)
. they gave them an old brno  rifle and 60 rounds 7,9 cal cartridges and send them to the other side of border . they came back very soon often in coffin.Unhappy
 there was a an iranian military hospital in the border  run by iran and it was overcrowded by wounded.
 i talked to the doctors and they were very  sad and uppset about amount of wounded and killed. those guys were very poorly armed with old brno rifle and  faced baath army which was armed with klashnikof and most modern autmatic rifles and  had artilery and air support.
 att that time nobdy talked about pkk (1967) and  the late mustafa barzani was  very friendly to iran and iranians as he mentioned  himself.
at that time i wonder if PKK was  allready operationell in turkey in 1960-1970?? did they??
many kurds mainly muslim in iran and iraq do not trust communists and i understand if they don't like PKK.
 i don't call them traitor it is a term often used by PKK Wink reffering to non communist kurds. please be carful by using this term , because it is often the word to discribe PKK in our region They call them communist inflitrator people LOL


The PKK has done very well at making Anatolian Kurds hate Iran.  They are not told of their history with Persians or the similarties, all they are told is that they descendeds of the Medes and that they have nothing to do with Iranian history.


Edited by Ince - 17-Apr-2010 at 05:10
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  Quote ideas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 05:10
Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by kalhur

at that time i was at iranian ghasre shirin city and  i saw many young guys were recruted from tribes around the border inside iran . often very young from tirbes surrounding. jaff, goran, ghalkhani ,kalhor even feyli(LORES. for this matter SADDAM  has killed thousends of civilian feyli tribes living in khanaghin area for revenging. it is very known fact.)
. they gave them an old brno  rifle and 60 rounds 7,9 cal cartridges and send them to the other side of border . they came back very soon often in coffin.Unhappy
 there was a an iranian military hospital in the border  run by iran and it was overcrowded by wounded.
 i talked to the doctors and they were very  sad and uppset about amount of wounded and killed. those guys were very poorly armed with old brno rifle and  faced baath army which was armed with klashnikof and most modern autmatic rifles and  had artilery and air support.
 att that time nobdy talked about pkk (1967) and  the late mustafa barzani was  very friendly to iran and iranians as he mentioned  himself.
at that time i wonder if PKK was  allready operationell in turkey in 1960-1970?? did they??
many kurds mainly muslim in iran and iraq do not trust communists and i understand if they don't like PKK.
 i don't call them traitor it is a term often used by PKK Wink reffering to non communist kurds. please be carful by using this term , because it is often the word to discribe PKK in our region They call them communist inflitrator people LOL


The PKK has done very at making Anatolian Kurds hate Iran.  They are not told of their history with Persians, all they are told is that they descendeds of the Medes and that they nothing to do with Iranian history.


Having history in iran, does not mean we want to be a part of iran! you are brainwashed my friend, only kermanshah kurds would say something like this..
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 05:14
Originally posted by ideas

Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by kalhur

at that time i was at iranian ghasre shirin city and  i saw many young guys were recruted from tribes around the border inside iran . often very young from tirbes surrounding. jaff, goran, ghalkhani ,kalhor even feyli(LORES. for this matter SADDAM  has killed thousends of civilian feyli tribes living in khanaghin area for revenging. it is very known fact.)
. they gave them an old brno  rifle and 60 rounds 7,9 cal cartridges and send them to the other side of border . they came back very soon often in coffin.Unhappy
 there was a an iranian military hospital in the border  run by iran and it was overcrowded by wounded.
 i talked to the doctors and they were very  sad and uppset about amount of wounded and killed. those guys were very poorly armed with old brno rifle and  faced baath army which was armed with klashnikof and most modern autmatic rifles and  had artilery and air support.
 att that time nobdy talked about pkk (1967) and  the late mustafa barzani was  very friendly to iran and iranians as he mentioned  himself.
at that time i wonder if PKK was  allready operationell in turkey in 1960-1970?? did they??
many kurds mainly muslim in iran and iraq do not trust communists and i understand if they don't like PKK.
 i don't call them traitor it is a term often used by PKK Wink reffering to non communist kurds. please be carful by using this term , because it is often the word to discribe PKK in our region They call them communist inflitrator people LOL


The PKK has done very at making Anatolian Kurds hate Iran.  They are not told of their history with Persians, all they are told is that they descendeds of the Medes and that they nothing to do with Iranian history.


Having history in iran, does not mean we want to be a part of iran! you are brainwashed my friend, only kermanshah kurds would say something like this..


I am not talking about been part of Iran.   I am talking about leting people know that they are not that different from Persians and they share similarties with them.  It is the small things that they are not told.   
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