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What does Greek sound like to a non speak

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  Quote BirTane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What does Greek sound like to a non speak
    Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 06:45

Originally posted by Phallanx

I'll just get into a few of them, but everyone you posted were correct.

abanoz = evenos= ebony ......CORRECT        
abis - abisus= abyss  ......(dont know this)....not in use anymore? Arkadasim yardim et!      
acele = akis= acerbic     ....acele means "hurry", "speedy" 
aerodrom aerodromio= airport     .....HAVA LIMANI ...even is not aeodrom still is greek..LIMAN  
af = afesis= pardon/remission    ....correct 
aforoz = aforismos =  excommunicate     ....correct
aglama = klama/klasma  =  fragment   ...aglama = crying

ahrem =akpomion =point of the shoulder/acromion process  ...i think not...but OMUZ (tr) = omos (gr) = shoulder  
akaya = akakia= guilelessness       ?????
akca = aksia = value (money)      ....correct...but AKCE not akca 
akrostis = akrostixis = acrostic       ..dont know about it
aksiyon = aksioma =honour/reputation   ....AKSIYOM not aksiyon...correct  
ambrion = embrion =fetus/conception   ...nop EMBRIYON...still greek  
amidon = amulon =ground by hand/amylum   wrong....amylum = nisasta a word that it is used by greeks also in some cases  
anadoln = anatoli = east/sunset   ...ANADOLU correct   
analjeji =analgisia = insensibility   ....ANALJEZI...correct 
antipod = antipodes = opposite feeling   ....i dont think this is correct....

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 07:38

abanoz = evenos= ebony
abis - abisus= abyss (a very deep place)
acele = I do not recognise this one
aerodrom = aerodromio (aeras=air, dromos=road) = airport
limani = limenas = port/harbour

af = afesis (from afino=I let go) = pardon/remission
aforoz = aforismos (apo=out/away, orizo=define) =  excommunicate
aglama = klama = crying
ahrem = akromion (akri=edge, omos=shoulder) = point of the shoulder
akaya = akakia = (a=not, kakia=badness/evilness) = she's not bad
akce = aksia = value (money)
akrostis = akrostixis (akro=end/edge, stixis=row) = acrostic (when you have a column of words and by taking the first letters of each you make another word)
aksiyom = aksioma = axiom/honour/reputation/title
embriyon = embrion (en=in, bryo=grow) =fetus
amidon = I do not recognise this one
anadolu = anatoli (ana=up, tello=happen) = east/sunset
analjezi = analgisia (an=not, algos=pain) = insensibility/painlessness
antipod = antipodas (anti=opposite, podas=leg) = opposite side (the other leg)

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 16:26
>>abis - abisus= abyss  ......(dont know this)....not in use anymore? Arkadasim yardim et!<<

Don't know what the Turkish? you posted means but the definition given by an online dictioanry is:
"Okyanusların çok derin yeri ve daha özel olarak güneş ışığının erişemediği kesim."

>>aglama = klama/klasma  =  fragment   ...aglama = crying<<
My mistake, I gave the Hellinic word "klama" but forgot to post the meaning that is " cry"

>>acele = akis= acerbic     ....acele means "hurry", "speedy"<<

You're right these were two different words.
It should have been:

acele = () kello = to drive on/ to run a ship.
synonym speudo () to rush, hasten

and

aci = akis ()= acerbic, point hence .

To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote BirTane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 05:16

 

Araka-Arakas Green peas (cooked)

Bahce-Bahtses Garden

Bostan-Bostani Farm garden, orchard

Bakkal-Bakalis - Grocer

Balta-Baltas - Hammer

Bizelye-Bizeli Green peas

Caba-Caba- Free, wthout money

Cakpn-Tsahpinis Roguish

Cakr-Tsakiris Gray blue eyes

Capa-Tsapa-How

Catal-Tsatala-Fork (in gr the big fork)

Cavus-Tsaousis (tr: sergeant, gr: the one who has the ability to persuade people)

Ciftlik-Tsifliki - Farmplaces

Coban-Tsobanis - Sepherd

Cuval-Tsuvali Textil bag

Dalga-Dalgas love sorrow love afair (metaphoric)

 

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 05:43

Originally posted by Phallanx

>>abis - abisus= abyss  ......(dont know this)....not in use anymore? Arkadasim yardim et!<<

Don't know what the Turkish? you posted means but the definition given by an online dictioanry is:
"Okyanusların ok derin yeri ve daha zel olarak gneş ışığının erişemediği kesim."
  It means deapest point of the see, where the sun shine ends.

But i think abis come from abi= high brother

>>aglama = klama/klasma  =  fragment   ...aglama = crying<<
My mistake, I gave the Hellinic word "klama" but forgot to post the meaning that is " cry"
Aglama = dont cry  Agla= cry

>>acele = akis= acerbic     ....acele means "hurry", "speedy"<<

acele= hurry acele et = hurry up

akis= (i guess) flow of something like flow of the water, in Turkish suyun akisi

You're right these were two different words.
It should have been:

acele = () kello = to drive on/ to run a ship.
synonym speudo () to rush, hasten

and

aci = akis ()= acerbic, point hence .

i dont know if they are the same words aci and akis, in Turkish they are different words.

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 05:49
Originally posted by BirTane

 

Araka-Arakas Green peas (cooked)

Bahce-Bahtses Garden

Bostan-Bostani Farm garden, orchard

Bakkal-Bakalis - Grocer

Balta-Baltas - Hammer

Bizelye-Bizeli Green peas

Caba-Caba- Free, wthout money

Cakpn-Tsahpinis Roguish

Cakr-Tsakiris Gray blue eyes

Capa-Tsapa-How

Catal-Tsatala-Fork (in gr the big fork)

Cavus-Tsaousis (tr: sergeant, gr: the one who has the ability to persuade people)

Ciftlik-Tsifliki - Farmplaces

Coban-Tsobanis - Sepherd

Cuval-Tsuvali Textil bag

Dalga-Dalgas love sorrow love afair (metaphoric)

 

Caba isnt free, without money, its Bedava. But caba is something else.

Balta= hammer = wrong it is something bigger then hammer where you cut threes with it.

Cekic= hammer  

Dalga= wave but dalga also used when you joking with someone, in Turkish Dalge gemek.



Edited by Kenaney
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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 06:52
i dont know if they are the same words aci and akis, in Turkish they are different words.

In the list I gave, the first word is the Turkish one, the second the original Hellinic and the third is the meaning in english.
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 07:30
Abis is from Abyss, not from
abi(agabey).
The question is - how many of this words, which are
undoubtedly of Greek origin ultimately, were
taken by Turkish from Greek? I mean, many
words that existed in Ancient Greek or were created
from Ancient Greek roots by western Europeans
more recently, became known because they were
used in French, German, or English. The languages
(like Turkish) that adopted these words did so
because of the importance of French, English, etc.
and did not know the etymology beyond that.

One example quoted in another posting was
analjesi. This word was taken (as the form
clearly shows) from French (and French was a
prestigious and influential language - much less
nowadays). French had taken it or developed it for
Ancient Greek because of the prestige of Classical
learning - but all this has little to do with Modern
Greek.
Most technical terms in Turkish (like aksiyom,
abis, or, opening the dictionary at random:
astronomi, ontoloji, hormon, etc.) have the
same history.
Some (like hormon) are words that did not
exist in Greek at all, but, after they were invented in
English (etc.) from ancient Greek roots, they were
recreated in Modern Greek too.

The words that Turkish took directly from Modern
Greek are not very many, and are of a different kind -
e.g. anahtar (which is not Ancient Greek and
does not exist in western European languages), or
ahtapod (where the shape of the word reveal
the Modern Greek form it started from).

A couple of the other words quoted are from other
sources - I doubt that aglama is from Greek
klama: the root is only agl- (and the -
ma
bit is the Turkish infinitive here); likewise,
acele (I thought it was from Farsi, but I do not
have etymological dictionaries here).

So, the influence of Classical Greece is big, but be
careful not to get carried away and try to trace
everything to Greek - like the father in My big fat
Greek wedding....

Edited by Pete
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 08:03

Originally posted by Pete

be careful not to get carried away and try to trace
everything to Greek - like the father in My big fat Greek wedding....

What do you mean, you think that "Kimono" is not a greek word?

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 08:09
Originally posted by Pete


One example quoted in another posting was
analjesi. This word was taken (as the form
clearly shows) from French (and French was a
prestigious and influential language - much less
nowadays). French had taken it or developed it for
Ancient Greek because of the prestige of Classical
learning - but all this has little to do with Modern
Greek.


Nope - it was used in greek before the french. The french used it for medical terminology. Greeks were using it for describing someone who had no compassion, i.e. no consideration for someone's pain.

Originally posted by Pete

Most technical terms in Turkish (like aksiyom,
abis, or, opening the dictionary at random:
astronomi,

Nope - same as above. "Axiono" in ancient greek meant "I take something for granted".
"Astronomia" was widely used, as the Greeks were already in astronomy following the eastern civilisations, before any "modern" equivalents.
Originally posted by Pete

ontoloji, hormon, etc.) have the
same history.
Some (like hormon) are words that did not
exist in Greek at all, but, after they were invented in
English (etc.) from ancient Greek roots, they were
recreated in Modern Greek too.

For these I agree.

Originally posted by Pete

The words that Turkish took directly from Modern
Greek are not very many, and are of a different kind -
e.g. anahtar (which is not Ancient Greek and
does not exist in western European languages),

I have no idea what this word means in modern Greek.

Originally posted by Pete


or
ahtapod (where the shape of the word reveal
the Modern Greek form it started from).

Nope - it comes from the ancinet "oktopus" = okto(eight) and pous(leg).

Originally posted by Pete


A couple of the other words quoted are from other
sources - I doubt that aglama is from Greek
klama: the root is only agl- (and the -
ma
bit is the Turkish infinitive here); likewise,
acele (I thought it was from Farsi, but I do not
have etymological dictionaries here).

For these I will not bet my head.

Originally posted by Pete

So, the influence of Classical Greece is big, but be
careful not to get carried away and try to trace
everything to Greek - like the father in My big fat
Greek wedding....


LOL - yes, well, hmmm...
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  Quote BirTane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 09:40
Originally posted by Kenaney


>>aglama = klama/klasma  =  fragment   ...aglama = crying<<
My mistake, I gave the Hellinic word "klama" but forgot to post the meaning that is " cry"
Aglama = dont cry  Agla= cry"

dont take the imperative mood....this is why i wrotte crying and not cry....bebek aglamasi..

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  Quote BirTane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 09:46

Caba isnt free, without money, its Bedava. But caba is something else.

yes right...same here...but hadiii explain it in english ))))

Balta= hammer = wrong it is something bigger then hammer where you cut threes with it.

yyyy right again

 

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 10:07
[QUOTE[One example quoted in another posting was
analjesi. This word was taken (as the form
clearly shows) from French (and French was a
prestigious and influential language - much less
nowadays). French had taken it or developed it for
Ancient Greek because of the prestige of Classical
learning - but all this has little to do with Modern
Greek.[/QUOTE]

Analjesi, seen in english as analgesia, let's look at the english etymology of the word:

"1875, "tending to remove pain," from analgesia "absence of pain" (1706), from Gk. an- "without" + algesis "sense of pain," from algos "pain," related to alegein "to care about," originally "to feel pain."
/www.etymonline.com

Not sure what you mean by "developed it for Ancient Greek" and "has little to do with Modern Greek"

Most technical terms in Turkish (like aksiyom,
abis, or, opening the dictionary at random:
astronomi, ontoloji, hormon, etc.) have the
same history.

True there are many technical terms that were later constructions, but the words used in these examples (exept ontology and hormone but that can be discussed) have nothing to do with these later but the original that were adopted.

- aksiosis= to be thought worty, reputation character/ demand, claim.

- Abyssos = abyss, bottomless  seen in Herodotus, Aristotle, Aechylus.....

- = Astronomy   used since Hesiod.

According to the etymologic dictionary mentioned above all these words were adopted in the early 13th via Latin and not constructed.
acele (I thought it was from Farsi, but I do not
have etymological dictionaries here).

Same source:
accelerate
 c.1525, from L. acceleratus, pp. of accelerare "quicken," from ad- "to" + celerare "hasten," from celer "swift" (see celerity). Accelerator in motor vehicle sense is first recorded 1900.

celerity
1483, from M.Fr. célérité, from L. celeritatem (nom. celeritas), from celer "swift," from PIE base *kel- "to drive, set in swift motion" (cf. Skt. carati "goes," Gk. keles "fast horse or ship," keleuthos "journey, road," Lith. sulys "a gallop," O.H.G. scelo "stallion").

The words that Turkish took directly from Modern
Greek are not very many, and are of a different kind -
e.g. anahtar (which is not Ancient Greek and
does not exist in western European languages)[/QUOTE[

The anahtar you mention is most probably what we call :
anoixtiri= can opener (opener in general)

If so then the term may be a reletively newly constructed word but its based on the ancient Hellinic " anoigma" = opening and the suffix -thri.

I know they were advanced technologically but can openers?



To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 10:18
Originally posted by BirTane

 

Araka-Arakas Green peas (cooked)

Bahce-Bahtses Garden

Bostan-Bostani Farm garden, orchard

Bakkal-Bakalis - Grocer

Balta-Baltas - Hammer

Bizelye-Bizeli Green peas

Caba-Caba- Free, wthout money

Cakpn-Tsahpinis Roguish

Cakr-Tsakiris Gray blue eyes

Capa-Tsapa-How

Catal-Tsatala-Fork (in gr the big fork)

Cavus-Tsaousis (tr: sergeant, gr: the one who has the ability to persuade people)

Ciftlik-Tsifliki - Farmplaces

Coban-Tsobanis - Sepherd

Cuval-Tsuvali Textil bag

Dalga-Dalgas love sorrow love afair (metaphoric)

 

loool Bakkal is Greek or Turkish?!

Baqche (Small Garden), Bostan (Land of Fruit), Chupan (Sheep Keeper), ... Long Live Persian!

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 12:41
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by BirTane

 

Araka-Arakas Green peas (cooked)

Bahce-Bahtses Garden

Bostan-Bostani Farm garden, orchard

Bakkal-Bakalis - Grocer

Balta-Baltas - Hammer

Bizelye-Bizeli Green peas

Caba-Caba- Free, wthout money

Cakpn-Tsahpinis Roguish

Cakr-Tsakiris Gray blue eyes

Capa-Tsapa-How

Catal-Tsatala-Fork (in gr the big fork)

Cavus-Tsaousis (tr: sergeant, gr: the one who has the ability to persuade people)

Ciftlik-Tsifliki - Farmplaces

Coban-Tsobanis - Sepherd

Cuval-Tsuvali Textil bag

Dalga-Dalgas love sorrow love afair (metaphoric)

 

loool Bakkal is Greek or Turkish?!

Baqche (Small Garden), Bostan (Land of Fruit), Chupan (Sheep Keeper), ... Long Live Persian!

Gelde delirme  Skret ki modsun

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 12:47
Originally posted by BirTane

Caba isnt free, without money, its Bedava. But caba is something else.

yes right...same here...but hadiii explain it in english ))))

Balta= hammer = wrong it is something bigger then hammer where you cut threes with it.

yyyy right again

Hadi aba gsterip aikliyayim ozmn

Im sure with balta it isnt hammer eki = hammer

And also Agla=cry aglama= dont cry aglamak=crying

Sana Trke gretmek haddime digil ama yalnis anlasilma olmus herhalde.

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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 14:51
Kenaney, it would be a bit more useful if your comments were in english.
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  Quote Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 16:57
The formatting has disappeared - this is from
Pete

------- to Menippo and King,

Yes, of course analgesia/-isis was used in
Greek before being used in French (I know my
Classical Greek), but my point is that it was adopted
in Turkish from French because of the
importance and prestige of French, with little
awareness or attention to the fact that it was a Greek
word in origin. The same applies to abis,
astronomi
etc. They are all Classical Greek
words, but Turkish has them because of French,
together with other French words that are not Greek
in origin - for instance Turkish (and Greek and
English) have (originally French) words like
garage
. So Turkish took aksiom, abis, etc.
because they were French words, and if it had not
been for French, Turkish would not know these
words. We cannot say "Turkish took all these
words from Greek".


By the way, axiono is only the modern form - in
Class. Greek was axioo.

Anahtar in Turkish mean key, and it comes from
Modern Greek anoihtiri .
Of course, Modern Greek took (rather, developed)
this word from Ancient Greek - from the root of
todays anoigo , ancient anoignumi;
my point is that this is a different type of loanwords
for Turkish (different from the one above:
analjesi, etc.) because
(1) Turkish took it directly from Greek, not through
French/English etc., and
(2) Turkish took it from Modern Greek, not Ancient
Greek.
Same for ahtapod : of course in Greek it
comes from ancient okto+pous, but Turkish took it
(as the form shows) from modern Greek - that is
why it is aHtapoD like in todays Greek htapodi (and
indeed ohto/podi). But words like this (really from
Modern Greek into Turkish) are few
.

------ to King of Kings (of Persia),

Yes, many words in Turkish (especially before the
language reform) were Persian - and bahe is one
of them. Few Persian words, from Turkish, entered
also Greek.
Some words that exist in both Turkish and Persian,
though, are from Arabic. For instance lisan,
which in Turkish was expurgated by the language
reform and replaced by dil .
By the way, I have just seen a Persian film (Nan ve
Goldoon 'bread and roses') and it was excellent, a
truly wonderful film. The word gl is also used
in Turkish.

---- to BirTane ve Pasha,

When I said aglama was the infinitive, I
meant it with the stress on the last syllable (like
cocugun aglama-si). Otherwise yes, it is a negative
command. Greek also has a -ma suffix, but there is
no connection.

Balta is an axe in English.

Trkler iin bir soru simdi: one of you used the word
kapish - I know it but I had never heard in
Turkish. Is it actually used?

Thanks - Pete


Edited by Pete
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 20:07
Originally posted by Pete

Yes, of course analgesia/-isis was used in
Greek before being used in French (I know my
Classical Greek), but my point is that it was adopted
in Turkish from French because of the
importance and prestige of French, with little
awareness or attention to the fact that it was a Greek
word in origin. The same applies to abis,
astronomi
etc. They are all Classical Greek
words, but Turkish has them because of French,
together with other French words that are not Greek
in origin - for instance Turkish (and Greek and
English) have (originally French) words like
garage
. So Turkish took aksiom, abis, etc.
because they were French words, and if it had not
been for French, Turkish would not know these
words. We cannot say "Turkish took all these
words from Greek".


Granted. No objections from me here.

Originally posted by Pete

By the way, axiono is only the modern form - in
Class. Greek was axioo.


Looking into it, I'll get back to you later with this one. I've got a feeling that it is with a single omega in the end.

Originally posted by Pete

Anahtar in Turkish mean key, and it comes from
Modern Greek anoihtiri .


LOL Even if this isn't the case (although I think you're right), the revelation gave me a grat laugh.

Originally posted by Pete

Of course, Modern Greek took (rather, developed)
this word from Ancient Greek - from the root of
todays anoigo , ancient anoignumi;


Nope - anoigumi = I am being opened
Anoigo = I open

Originally posted by Pete

my point is that this is a different type of loanwords
for Turkish (different from the one above:
analjesi, etc.) because
(1) Turkish took it directly from Greek, not through
French/English etc., and
(2) Turkish took it from Modern Greek, not Ancient
Greek.
Same for ahtapod : of course in Greek it
comes from ancient okto+pous, but Turkish took it
(as the form shows) from modern Greek - that is
why it is aHtapoD like in todays Greek htapodi (and
indeed ohto/podi). But words like this (really from
Modern Greek into Turkish) are few
.


Granted

Originally posted by Pete



Balta is an axe in English.


In greek it means "cleaver" - the butcher's heavy chopping tool.

CARRY NOTHING
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Pete View Drop Down
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Immortal Guard


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  Quote Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 06:14
- to Daimyo:

You misread what I wrote: I wrote anoignumi
not anoigumi as you quote. By -umi I mean
ypsilon+mi+iota (a verb ending in -mi like ancient
deiknumi, now deihno), not a passive verb in -oumai
(in omikron+ypsilon+mi+alfa+iota).

About aksio: the last two letters are omikron+
omega with the accent on the first (like delo, now
dilno), which can indeed be contracted to del (with
omega).

Pete
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