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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: Your religion, why you are not a Zurvanist? Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 02:18 |
You are either an atheist or a theist, in both cases, you can be also a Zurvanist, if you believe in the God, as an incorporeal and unlimited being then it can be Zurvan (Time and Space), and if you don't believe in the God then you can't deny the existence of Zurvan (concept of time and space), it can be said that our material world was created by this conception, the fact is that time is ruling the universe, a famous Zurvanist (Dahriyyun in the Islamic times), Omar Khayyam says heaven is each moment and location (time and space) that you are in peace and joy, some poems by Khayyam (English Translation):
The only constant is time’s passage Which is the same for both fool and sage To young and old time’s only message Engage in joy, put away your rage From the unknown set foot upon the stage And leaving this cage one day is your wage.
and The only secret that you need to know The passage of time is a one way flow If you understand, joyously you’ll grow Else you will drown in your own sorrow
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Cryptic
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Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 11:04 |
Is there a Sufi influence to this?
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 12:29 |
This is some hundreds years older than Sufism.
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Mosquito
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Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 13:43 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You are either an atheist or a theist, in both cases, you can be also a Zurvanist, if you believe in the God, as an incorporeal and unlimited being then it can be Zurvan (Time and Space), and if you don't believe in the God then you can't deny the existence of Zurvan (concept of time and space), it can be said that our material world was created by this conception, the fact is that time is ruling the universe, a famous Zurvanist (Dahriyyun in the Islamic times), Omar Khayyam says heaven is each moment and location (time and space) that you are in peace and joy, some poems by Khayyam (English Translation):
The only constant is time’s passage Which is the same for both fool and sage
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Well, since the Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity we know that time definatelly isnt constant
And sorry Cyrus, there is also a third option. Im neither an atheist or a theist. Im an agnostic. For me both theists and atheists are belivers. As an agnostic im unable to find out the truth if the God or Gods exists or not. So as long as I cant check it, i dont care for it.
Wikipedia gives such definition of so called "strong agnosticism":
Strong agnosticism or positive agnosticism is the belief that it is impossible for humans to know whether or not any deities exist. It is a broader view than weak agnosticism, which states that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is unknown but not necessarily unknowable.
Strong agnosticism is usually justified on the epistemological grounds that humans can only experience the natural world and thus cannot know about anything which may exist outside it, including deities. One criticism is that this justification is only valid if deities are viewed as exclusively supernatural beings, but to support such a view one must have at least some knowledge of the nature of deities. The agnostic reply is, as the natural world can be explained by science, the defining feature of any deity must be supernatural.
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 15:07 |
You can be also an agnostic, it is not important to know whether the God exists or not, but the time exists, in fact it is possible to imagine everything, except the time, couldn't be existed, something is impossible for humans to know that you want to imagine it without the time, there is just one thing which doesn't grow old and no one can change it, you can call it the god but that is the time.
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Pytheus
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Posted: 27-Nov-2009 at 11:22 |
Originally posted by Mosquito
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You are either an atheist or a theist, in both cases, you can be also a Zurvanist, if you believe in the God, as an incorporeal and unlimited being then it can be Zurvan (Time and Space), and if you don't believe in the God then you can't deny the existence of Zurvan (concept of time and space), it can be said that our material world was created by this conception, the fact is that time is ruling the universe, a famous Zurvanist (Dahriyyun in the Islamic times), Omar Khayyam says heaven is each moment and location (time and space) that you are in peace and joy, some poems by Khayyam (English Translation):
The only constant is time’s passage Which is the same for both fool and sage
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Well, since the Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity we know that time definatelly isnt constant
And sorry Cyrus, there is also a third option. Im neither an atheist or a theist. Im an agnostic. For me both theists and atheists are belivers. As an agnostic im unable to find out the truth if the God or Gods exists or not. So as long as I cant check it, i dont care for it.
Wikipedia gives such definition of so called "strong agnosticism":
Strong agnosticism or positive agnosticism is the belief that it is impossible for humans to know whether or not any deities exist. It is a broader view than weak agnosticism, which states that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is unknown but not necessarily unknowable.
Strong agnosticism is usually justified on the epistemological grounds that humans can only experience the natural world and thus cannot know about anything which may exist outside it, including deities. One criticism is that this justification is only valid if deities are viewed as exclusively supernatural beings, but to support such a view one must have at least some knowledge of the nature of deities. The agnostic reply is, as the natural world can be explained by science, the defining feature of any deity must be supernatural.
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Most christians/muslims are agnostics, they don't know whether god exists or not, but choose to believe.
Fanatical christians/muslims are nostics, they know for sure god exists.
Some Athiests are agnostics, they don't know whether god exists or not but choose not to believe.
Most athiests are nostics they know for sure god doesn't exist.
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Agnostics don't know whether 'god' exist(s) and created the universe or not.
Replace the word 'god' with,
pink fairies
pink fairies in blue tutus
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday in bad mood
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday in a bad mood who vote conservative
continue for infinity.
Agnosticism is an illogical absurdity.
Edited by Pytheus - 27-Nov-2009 at 11:26
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Mosquito
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Posted: 27-Nov-2009 at 14:28 |
Originally posted by Pytheus
Most christians/muslims are agnostics, they don't know whether god exists or not, but choose to believe.
Fanatical christians/muslims are nostics, they know for sure god exists.
Some Athiests are agnostics, they don't know whether god exists or not but choose not to believe.
Most athiests are nostics they know for sure god doesn't exist.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agnostics don't know whether 'god' exist(s) and created the universe or not.
Replace the word 'god' with,
pink fairies
pink fairies in blue tutus
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday in bad mood
pink fairies in blue tutus with green noses on a thursday in a bad mood who vote conservative
continue for infinity.
Agnosticism is an illogical absurdity.
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Nah, real strong agnostic dont know if any deity exists but isnt choosing to belive or not to belive but simply isint thinking about it.
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Pytheus
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Posted: 27-Nov-2009 at 15:00 |
Belief requires thinking about god.
Not thinking about god is an absence of belief.
Atheism is an absence of belief in god.
Strong agnosticism seems simply to be atheism.
Edited by Pytheus - 27-Nov-2009 at 15:01
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Mosquito
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Posted: 27-Nov-2009 at 16:14 |
Originally posted by Pytheus
Belief requires thinking about god.
Not thinking about god is an absence of belief.
Atheism is an absence of belief in god.
Strong agnosticism seems simply to be atheism. |
Nah, atheism is a belief that there is no god.
Both those who belive in God and atheists are in some way religious people. They have no evidence that god exist as well as no evidence that god doesnt exist. Atheists have strong belief that god doesnt exist. The strong fanatic atheists even do everything what is possible to convince other people that there is no god.
As an agnostic i dont say that God doesnt exist. I just cant check it in any way so I dont think or care about it.
Edited by Mosquito - 27-Nov-2009 at 16:15
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Pytheus
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Posted: 27-Nov-2009 at 16:52 |
Originally posted by Mosquito
Nah, atheism is a belief that there is no god. |
You propose absence of belief is in fact belief in a negative, so you don't believe in science..
Edited by Pytheus - 27-Nov-2009 at 16:54
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 28-Nov-2009 at 09:48 |
I think it is more difficult to believe there is no God (Creator) than that there is, Strong agnosticism can be said to be the same ignorantism, when you see a lighted lamp, you have to believe there is a reason for it, if you say I don't see electricity so I dont think or care about it then there won't be any difference between you and those who lived thousands years ago, you should think! You can say I know nothing about electricity or the God but ignorance has no benefit for you!
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