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Parthians looked like which modern people?

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Parthians looked like which modern people?
    Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 09:28
Oh, ok, I thought you meant that the Parthians might have originally been a Turkic people.

Yes, I agree with you, many Turkic speaking peoples of today are actually descendants of Caucasians, Anatolians, and certainly Iranians.

I am also Iranian Smile
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  Quote Messopotamian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 07:06
Parthians ancestors of Zaza people, they language similar with Pahlawi.
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  Quote Messopotamian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 07:09
from wikipedia :
 
 
Historic roots of the Zaza people

Linguistic studies shows that the Zazas may have immigrated to their modern-day homeland from the southern shores of the Caspian Sea. Some Zazas use the word Dimli (Daylami) to describe their ethnic identity. The word Dimli (Daylami) also describes a region of Gilan Province in today’s Iran. Some linguists connect the word Dimli with the Daylamites in the Alborz Mountains near the shores of Caspian Sea in Iran and believe that the Zaza have migrated from Daylam towards the west. Today, Iranian languages are still spoken in southern regions of Caspian Sea (also called the Caspian languages), including Sangsarī, Māzandarānī, Tātī (Herzendī), Semnānī, Tāleshī, and they are grammatically and lexically very close to Zazaki; this supports the argument that Zazas immigrated to eastern Anatolia from southern regions of Caspian Sea.[4] Zazas also live in a region close to the Kurds, who are also another Iranic ethnic group. But, historic sources such as the Zoroastrian holy book, Bundahishn, places the Dilaman (Dimila/Zaza) homeland in the headwaters of the Tigris[citation needed], as it is today. This points to that the Dimila/Zaza migrated to the Caspian sea and not the other way around[original research?].

[edit] Religion

Approximately half of the Zazas are Alevis, while the remainder are Sunni Muslims. The Alevi-Zazas live in the northern part of the Zaza region, whereas the Sunni Zazas inhabit the southern Zaza region. The ancient religion of Zazas is believed to have been Zoroastrianism.

[edit] Language

Main article: Zazaki language

The first written statements in the Zaza language were compiled by the linguist Peter Lerch in 1850. Two other important documents are the religious writings (Mewlıd) of Ehmedê Xasi of 1899, and of Usman Efendiyo Babıc (published in Damascus in 1933); both of these works were written in the Arabic alphabet.

The use of the Latin alphabet for writing the Zazaki language only became popular in the diaspora after meager efforts in Sweden, France and Germany at the beginning of the 1980s. This was followed by the publication of magazines and books in Turkey, particularly in Istanbul. The efforts of Zaza intellectuals to promote their native language by the written word is beginning to bear fruit: the number of publications in Zaza is increasing. The rediscovery of the native culture by Zaza intellectuals not only caused a renaissance of Zaza language and culture, it also triggered feelings among younger generations of Zazas (who rarely speak Zaza as a mother tongue anymore) in favor of the Zaza language, and thus their interest in their heritage. In the diaspora, a limited amount of Zaza-language programmes are broadcast. Moreover, with the gradual easing of restrictions on local languages in Turkey in preparation for European Union membership, the state owned TRT television launched a Zazaki TV program and a radio program, which is broadcast on Fridays.

[edit] Notes

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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2009 at 14:24

The sculpture of both Parthian soldier and Parthian princess represent typical european featuries. Straight nose, straight or light-curled hair, long face. Another sculptures are too stylized. There is not doubt about parthians race type. Close connect between scythians and parthians is well known. As Herodotos wrote: "

"...The Budini (scythian tribe, lived in present day Ukraine) are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs..."
 
Many antique authors also explain that scythians have mostly nordic feature.  Present day archeological dicovery improve this facts. Proto-iranian civilization hold large areal in 2000 b.C. from river Danube on the west to Altai mountains and Tarim basin on the east, include Iranian Plateau.
This is a face reconstruction of Ice Princess mummy found in kurgan in Ukok Plateau, Altai
 
This is a mummy of young woman, 20-25 years old with blond hair, pale skin and huge scythian style body tattoo.
 
 
 
Mummy of scythian warrior was found in 2006 on Mongolian Altai.

"The mummy, which is believed to be about 2,500 years old was a 30-to-40 year-old man with blond hair, and was found in very good condition, Patzinger said. It's too delicate for exhibition, but new techniques developed following other recent discoveries of frozen mummies will enable scientists to study the remains in detail. The newly discovered Altai mummy has been compared to the discovery of Ötzi in southern Tyrol in 1991 and a tattooed Siberian ice princess in 1993."

 
 
Artifacts from last decade (plus Tarim mummies) create panic in circle of chinese and pan-altaic historians with traditional nationalistic orientation. It`s strong sign how complex and deep is historic science. Often present day situation can`t be proof for the past.
 
It`s simillar to situation with Iran. Parthians were much more close to Europe in anthropological and cultural attitude, than present day Iran. Europe stay out from foreign influence much of the time and that why here is preserved on a large scale original Indo-European genе.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2009 at 18:40
Dear Kanas-K!

I absolutly place little no faith in facial reconstructions! Well, at least 90% of them!
The only way I would consider a reconstruction, would be if the same skull would be given to a reconstructor of every so called race of man, and compare the results?
Maybe a composite of all of these would be nearly correct? But, I doubt it?

Your "Ice Princess" above, could walk out of any house in most of the USA and not be noticed!
Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 00:44

Dear opuslola,

You are right. Facial reconstructions is one unreliable method. I personally can proof many fails, but don`t forget  great number of uncover crimes thanks to this facial reconstruction. In concrete case restorement base on human mummy with preserved skin and muscles, not on the single skull. If you watch the clip beneath the second photo in my post, you`ll see how detailing was research of the mummy. From origin of a clothes to DNA. It`s clearly represent european lineage... if we use present day Europe`s population for comparison. (and most of the USA for now Wink)

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 02:02
There is a false or true belief among Iranians that original Iranians (Aryans) had light hair and colored eyes, and black haired and eyed people who are the majority, are the aboriginal people of Iran or other non-Aryan migrated peoples, like Jews, Arabs, Turks, ...
 
Maybe for this reason we read: Ahmadinejad is a Jew!, posted by me on 02-Oct-2009


Mahmud Ahmadinejad

It is said that this man just talks about Israel and has almost no interest about Iran and Iranians but it is different about the origianl Iranians (Aryans)!

We Iranians wished this man to be our president: Musavi, the man who seems to really love Iran!, posted by me on 04-Jun-2009


Mirhossein Musavi

Of course you can certainly find some racists among these Iran lovers!! Read it: Iranian Racists (anti-Semitist) behind Ahmadinejad, posted by me on 19-Mar-2009

On December 14, 2006 the Iranian news agency IRNA reported, in English, that participants in the Iranian Holocaust Denial Conference, dubbed "Holocaust: A Global Vision," had announced the establishment of a "world foundation for Holocaust studies" and unanimously appointed Presidential Advisor Mohammad-Ali Ramin as its secretary-general.


Mohammad-Ali Ramin, the current head of the press supervisory board

This is an individual who while on a visit to Gilan University, said to a group of students in the town of Rasht: 'We Iranians are definitely not, and never have been, nationalistic, and we are not against any ethnic [group]. We certainly do not worship race, nor [are we] against any race, and we nave never perpetrated genocide." ... "'But among the Jews there have always been those who killed God’s prophets and who opposed justice and righteousness." ... "This is because the Jews are very filthy people. For a time people also said that they poisoned water wells belonging to Christians and thus killed them"

Four years ago, two other presidential candidates had also focused on their light hairs and colored eyes to show being Iranian!

One of them was Ali Larijani:


Ali Larijani, the current chairman of the Iranian parliament

Another one was Qalibaf:


Mohammed-Baqer Qalibaf, the current mayor of Tehran

It is interesting to read about him in the New York Times: William Beeman on Iran's Election

Earlier, around the 8th of June, the polls suggested the second-place runner was Mohammed Baqur Qalibaf, who used to be chief of police in Tehran. And his campaign has been the slickest thing I've ever seen. I am astonishingly impressed with the print and media images he has been able to generate. He has been turned into an absolute glamour boy.

He's in his early 40s, and I actually have a collection of posters of him that were really impressive. In one, he is in a pilot's uniform next to an Iranian jet, looking like a glamorous aviator. There's another one that's a poster in a very untraditional format. It's in a long, horizontal strip that simply has the upper part of his face kind of staring out at you, and it's all black and white, except they have enhanced his blue eyes. So you see this black and white poster with these electric blue eyes staring out at you.

Light hair and colored eyes can be seen in among some of the greatest Iranian Mullahs too:
 

Ayatollah Ali Khameni, Iran's leader
 

Ayatollah Mohammad Yazdi, the former head of Judiciary System of Iran
 

Hasan Khomeini, grandson of the founder of the Islamic Republic Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 25-Dec-2009 at 02:24
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 07:00
Dear Cyrus Shahmiri, well known fact is presence of a typical european appearance among many iranians today. This is also great evidence about your indo-european roots. But we don`t have to forget that indo-european appearance is no necessary to be always in combination- blond/red hair and blue/green eyes. Mediterranean type- brown/black hair and hazel eyes is also very wide-spread in Europe. Most impotant is face type and body structure, because here in Bulgraria I know (for example) two brother with similar face, but one with blond hair and blue eyes and another black/hazel. Mediterranean type is date even in Scandinavia. Also on British isle and Central Europe. In Wales most of the population have mediterranean type from their celtic ancestors. For example Catherine Zeta Jones
Estonia and Finland have the biggest blond hair persent of the population in the world- around 80 %. Interesting they aren`t indo-europeans, but ugro-finns. Blond hair is a characteristic, not mandatory appearance for indo-europeans.
 
To be honesty in Iran today middle eastern appearance is dominant. That`s because strong and lond semitic influence from antiquity(Mesopotamia) till arab conquest and colonization.
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 09:50
several issues:

1) this focus on lighter hair, skin, and eye color regarding the original Iranian peoples
2) the fact that you guys think you can compare a people that lived 2000 years ago to people who are living today based on physical appearance.

point is, no, the Parthians probably do not look like any modern people because over thousands of years intermarriage has occured, people have mixed, and the general world wide trend is darker hair/skin/and eye color.

Even in Europe darker hair/eye/skin color is becoming more prevalent. This topic is pointless, the only way to pinpoint the descendants of the Parthians, which could be several different groups of peoples, is DNA testing, plain and simple.

You could argue about physical features all day but thats not going to get you anywhere unless you have some real solid DNA evidence, thats the only way to determine such things in today's world as the "Persians" of today probably dont look anything like the Persians of antiquity either.

-----

With that said, the original Iranic peoples, the very very original ones, were probably lighter skinned with lighter colored eyes and hair. however, after a hundreds of years of living in different regions and in isolation, I do not think it is wise to use the description of Scythians and apply that to all Iranian peoples.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 25-Dec-2009 at 09:57
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 10:40
Indo-European is not equal to European, Iranians are as much Indo-European as Europeans, of course the original land of Iranian-speaking people could be in the north or east Europe, I think somewhere around Latvia and Estonia that you mentioned, could be the central land of Iranians, the land which has been mentioned as Vaniratha (Hvaniratha), probably the same Vanir land in the Norse mythology.
 
Kanas_Krumesis, you are from Bulgaria, yes? Where do you think to be the original land of Bulgarians? Please look at this thread: Homeland and origin of ancient Bulgarians, as I mentioned there the name of Bolugarestan (Persian name of Bulgaria) could be related to Avestan Vourugaresti, a land in the north of Vaniratha, the modern land can be either Voru County or Valga County in Southern Estonia, according to the Avesta, in the west, beyond the Sea, was the country of Svahi, which could be Old Norse Svea (Modern Sweden).
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 14:16
To TheGreatSimba:
DNA- yes, but which one we must use for comparison? DNA is just a chemical code. Peoples travel, migrate, mixed and it`s very difficult to restore history only on that. I watched on Discovary channel movie about DNA tests, and scientists found DNA equality between one woman from Greece and one indian chieftain from american Midwest. A conclusion was-peoples from siberian tribe migrated to America hundred of years ago, and in the same time another peoples from tribe migrated on Greece direction. For me much more logical conclusion is- indian chieftain had european ancestors from period of America`s colonization but... point of viewWink
 
To Cyrus Shahmiri:
The problem with origin of proto-bulgars is so complex. Proto-bulgarians formed the kernel of bulgarian nation. Scientists accept that we are slavic nation as hole, and proto-bulgars were high class minority in early Medieval Bulgaria, quickly assimilated. I personaly reject "slavs" as a term. Roman author wrote about sarmatians. They were roman federates, great and numerous nation which somehow disappear from historic scene. Ammianus Marcellinus talk about sarmatian tibe of serboi and choroatos (croatians). Veneti is also mentioning name along with many others. Cossacks from european steppe have military society, just like sarmatians. Sarmatism was very popular ideology among polish nobility in Middle Ages- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism
 
Name "slav" came from "slovo (слово)" which mean "word" or "who can understand each other" in opposite of the name given to germans "nemtzi (немци)" mean "mute" or "who speak illegible language". Theory about pan-slavism was create in imperial Russia in 18 century.
But proto-bulgars must be different scythian tribe with different language. Only a few words survive from their language, wrote with greek alphabet.
-imenshegor
-kanas (was a royal title)
-yubigi
-ichirgu
-hlubrin
-estrogin ect...
Also several names:
-Kobrat, Kuber, Krumesis, Tervel, Omurtag, Teletz, Boris (this world-wide name have proto-bulgar origin and mean something like tiger) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_I_of_Bulgaria
About proto-bulgars homeland- it was steppe region, because of their lifestyle. They were powerfull horse nation. Strong cavalry. Region around Latvia and Estonia consist deep forest and swamps without number. It`s can`t be our homeland. Where is Vaniratha`s situation?


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 25-Dec-2009 at 14:22
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 14:20
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

To TheGreatSimba:
DNA- yes, but which one we must use for comparison? DNA is just a chemical code. Peoples travel, migrate, mixed and it`s very difficult to restore history only on that. I watched on Discovary channel movie about DNA tests, and scientists found DNA equality between one woman from Greece and one indian chieftain from american Midwest. A conclusion was-peoples from siberian tribe migrated to America hundred of years ago, and in the same time another peoples from tribe migrated on Greece direction. For me much more logical conclusion is- indian chieftain had european ancestors from period of America`s colonization but... point of viewWink
 


No, DNA evidence can and still is used. Find a body of a Parthian, take a sample, compare it to DNA samples from the region. Whoever is most similar is probably the most direct descendant of the Parthians, although more than one group of people may share similar DNA.

For example, this technique was used several years ago on Azari's. Iranian Azari's were shown to have similar DNA to other Iranian peoples and a lot less similar to Arrani's (RoA) and Turks from Turkey. Similarly, Arrani's (RoA), were shown to have more similar DNA to other caucasian peoples.

This DNA study proved what has historically been known although it proved it definitively once and for all.

So you see, DNA evidence can and is being used to solve historical mysteries. However, I find it funny how you say DNA studies are unreliable because people have mixed over the centuries yet you are relying on physical characteristics. Wouldnt that even be more unreliable?

In reference to the Greek woman and the Native American chieftan, they were looking at particular samples, not overall DNA similarities, which would have been much different. Because the Native American's are known to have come to the America's from Asia, its obvious that they broke off from other groups of humans, so the question is who? By testing for DNA and fighting unique similarities between Native American's and people who stayed in Asia, they were able to determine that the peoples who inhabited the America's had come from siberia.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 25-Dec-2009 at 14:23
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2009 at 14:56
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

[QUOTE=Kanas_Krumesis]To TheGreatSimba:

In reference to the Greek woman and the Native American chieftan, they were looking at particular samples, not overall DNA similarities, which would have been much different. Because the Native American's are known to have come to the America's from Asia, its obvious that they broke off from other groups of humans, so the question is who? By testing for DNA and fighting unique similarities between Native American's and people who stayed in Asia, they were able to determine that the peoples who inhabited the America's had come from siberia.
 
OK, but this DNA equality between greek woman and indian chieftan make contradiction on theory of siberian migration, if we take DNA result direct. In attempt to defent this theory, scientists from Discovery channel made a non-sence.  For truly decision about historic questions we need much more instruments. DNA can only help in many case, but not in everyone.
 
btw. This theme is about physical appearance or I`m failing Confused
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 06:54

I'd like to know if anyone here has come across anything saying that the early Achaemenid kings, including Cyrus the Great, claim descent from one Kambujiya, eponymous ancestor of the Kamboja tribe that supposedly inhabited the western Himalayas.

My own research has also led to me finding that the Kamboja were like the Asiatic i.e. Himalayan, branch of the Cymmerians.
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 13:36
Sorry Shield of Dardania, I cannot help you with your inquiry!

Cyrus posted on the last Christmas day, the following;

"Indo-European is not equal to European, Iranians are as much Indo-European as Europeans, of course the original land of Iranian-speaking people could be in the north or east Europe, I think somewhere around Latvia and Estonia that you mentioned, could be the central land of Iranians, the land which has been mentioned as Vaniratha (Hvaniratha), probably the same Vanir land in the Norse mythology."

The key words of Cyrus' post, are, to me at least, "Latvia and Estonia", and I guess that he could have also mentioned Lithuania? I have proposed that Latvia, might well be connected to both "Lat-in", as well as "Let" as in "Letters!" Estonia, might well merely mean "Eastern" or "Land in the East?"

But, perhaps a look at "Letts" might be in order?

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9405E1D8113BEE3ABC4F51DFB7668382609EDE

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F05EEDB143EE433A25752C2A9619C946996D6CF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_language

I would suggest that the original Letts or Latts were "men of letters!",or as they are mostly called today "monks!"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 18:29

I think that, Opuslola, Indo-European is just a bigger cluster than European. I've heard guys say that European, as well as Arab, budded off as relatively younger offshoots of Indo-European.

History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 18:40
@Kanas Krumesis,
I read somewhere that early Bolgars were a Western Turkic people, related to the Oghuz, the Slavicisation occurring some time later.
 
Any possible truth in that?
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 02:01
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

I'd like to know if anyone here has come across anything saying that the early Achaemenid kings, including Cyrus the Great, claim descent from one Kambujiya, eponymous ancestor of the Kamboja tribe that supposedly inhabited the western Himalayas.

My own research has also led to me finding that the Kamboja were like the Asiatic i.e. Himalayan, branch of the Cymmerians.
The names of Cambyses (Modern Persian Kambiz) and Cambodia could be certainly related, but there could be no relation between Cambyses and Cambodians, as I have found the second part of the word is "Bujia" which means "Beige", Greek "Byssus", a fine woolen fabric, and the first part of the word is "Kam" which means "robe, cloak". Babylonian "Kambuzi" is said to be the title of kings of Babylon who wore a woolen robe each New Year.
 
Similar words can be found in other langauages:
 
 
Chemise is a French term (which today simply means shirt). This is a cognate of the Italian word camicia, and the Spanish / Portuguese word camisa (subsequently borrowed as kameez by Hindi / Urdu / Hindustani), all deriving ultimately from the Latin camisia, itself coming from Celtic (The Romans avidly imported cloth and clothes from the Celts).[1] The English called the same shirt a smock and the Irish called it a léine (pronounced /ˈleɪnjə/). For an alternative etymology from Persian via Arabic and ultimately Greek, rather than Latin roots, refer entry under Kameez.
 
 

The shirt, kameez or qamiz, takes its name from the Arabic qamis. There are two main hypotheses regarding the origin of the Arabic word, namely:

  1. that Arabic qamis is derived from the Latin camisia (shirt), which in its turn comes from the Proto-Indo-European kem (‘cloak’).[4]
  2. that Mediaeval Latin camisia is a borrowing through Hellenistic Greek kamision from the Central Semitic root “qmṣ”, represented by Ugaritic qmṣ (‘garment’) and Arabic qamīṣ (‘shirt’). Both of these are related to the Hebrew verb קמץ qmṣ (‘grip’, ‘enclose with one’s hand’).[5]
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 02:41

Cyr,

Cambodia the modern country is located in South East Asia, sandwiched between Thailand, Laos and Vietnam.
 
Kamboja the ancient Indo-Iranian tribe inhabited the Western Himalayas, the Pamir-Badakshan region and the Hindu Kush.
 
The people of Cambodia (Kambu-ja), i.e. the Khmers, believe their country's name means, in Sanskrit, 'sons of Kambu', this Kambu being an ancient South Indian brahmin of royal blood, who may or may not have had Indo-Iranian ancestry, who is claimed to have founded the earliest ancient Cambodian kingdom.
 
As for Kamboja the ancient Indo-Iranian tribe of the Western Himalayas, some people believe that the Tajiks, natives of Tajikistan, are their modern descendants. They are a goodlooking people, as historical documents are usually fond of saying about the Indo-Iranian Kamboja. I also happened to have met a Tajik girl before, she was ... well ... quite well blessed in tke looks department ... I would say. Tall (about 5 ft. 10, very fair skinned, long dark hair, light brown eyes. Classical Indo-Aryan beauty, I thought.
 
The Indo-Iranian Kamboja warrior king, Kambujiya, is mentioned in ancient legend as having fought an ancient North Indian king named Kuvalasahava, of the kingdom of Kosala, bordering Magadha. Kambujiya defeated Kuvalashava and wrested a sword called 'Daivi Khadga', which meant 'Divine Sword' in Sanskrit. The sword was also said to later, centuries later, have been carried by several ancient Indian kings, among them the legendary Hindu archer-warrior Arjuna mentioned in the Mahabrata.
 
Arjuna in fact fought against a descendant of Kambujiya named Sudakhshina in the Battle of Kurukshetra, where the Kamboja tribe was a reluctant participant forced to join in on the request of a friendly ally, the kaurava tribe. Sudakhshina whupped Arjuna into a swoon, but Arjuna recovered and slew Sudakhshina with his arrow.
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 02:58
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

There are some interesting connections between Phrygians and Parthians (Ashkanian in Persian, Ashkuz in Assyrian, Ashkenaz in Hebrew [the Hebrew word is also used for "Germany"]), as you read in The Iliad, By Homer, the ancient Greek poet says "Godlike Ascanius and Phorcys brought the Phrygians from remote Ascania;"
 
The kingdom was created by Indo-Europeans who began to infiltrate into Bithynia in western Anatolia from the Balkans after about 1450 BC. Moving south and east, they settled the region a little way inland from the north-western corner of Anatolia, with Mysia and the Troad to their north-west. Linguistically, they bore some relationship with the Armenians who later occupied the mountains in the north of Mesopotamia in the kingdoms of Nairi and Urartu.
 

fl c.1180s BC

Ascanius

His dau, Hecuba, m Priam of Troy.

c.1193 - 1183 BC

Prince Ascanius and Phorcys lead the Phrygian contingent from remote Ascania to the Trojan War on the side of Troy.

Phrygia and Troy were just place names. My view, based on literature surveys, is that the people who inhabited them were basically Thracians, although Greeks would prefer to believe that Phyrygians and Trojans were Ionian Greeks.
 
If we consider that Ashkanians a.k.a Ashkuzai a.k.a. were Scythians, and that Scythians were in turn descended from Thracians before them, then it makes sense that an Ashkanian battalion would have fought on the side of the Trojans.
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