Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Parthians looked like which modern people?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Parthians looked like which modern people?
    Posted: 19-Oct-2009 at 10:28

Relief of a Persian soldier from Persepolis:

but
 
Head of a Parthian soldier, one of the earliest Parthian one, in Nisa, the first capital of Parthian empire in modern Turkmenistan:

Bust of a Parthian princess in Susa in the southwest of Iran:

Some other Parthian sculptures from this website: http://www.cais-soas.com



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 19-Oct-2009 at 10:29
Back to Top
SonOfIran View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 29-Aug-2009
Location: Toronto
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 30
  Quote SonOfIran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2009 at 20:20
The Persians depicted on Persepolis portray clear Assyrian architectural influence while the Parthian busts portray Hellenic influence.
Back to Top
Nickmard View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 02-Mar-2009
Location: London/Auckland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 47
  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 03:41
Definite Greek influence, the Parthians were obsessed with the Greeks.
Back to Top
YusakuJon3 View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2009 at 17:25
   That's why Encyclpædia Britannica articles refer to the Parthian era of Iranian history as "philo-Hellenic" in nature.  The Parthians even used Greek as the official language of their court and maintained many of the cultural traditions of their former Hellenistic overlords such as the gymnasium and theatrical plays.
"There you go again!"

-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
Back to Top
Messopotamian View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 22-Sep-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56
  Quote Messopotamian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2009 at 07:49
Parthians looks like Zaza and Kurds
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2009 at 13:20
Persian profile; bent nose, wide nostrils, curled hair, stylized eyes and brows! Actually the curly hair (really whorls!) might well be a well styled helment, and the beard also fake, and part of the head gear?
Note we are unable to see the top of the head, which might well give us a better idea! Cyrus, you probably did this on purpose? chuckle You will also notice that the ring, that appears to be an "ear ring", is in reality a ring for a chin strap! The ears are covered!
I really would expect to see a fan like top piece upon the top of the head, much like those worn by the Sea People and found chisled into stone at Medinet Habu!

All in all, I would identify this person, if he was representative of the people to a great degree, as a person from the Levant and East.

Parthian soldier; Here the nose and forhead are in an almost straight line from forehead to tip of the nose. The hair found on the beard is straight, but you will notice that most of his cheek and cheekbone is covered by the helment straps, etc. All you need to do to make this side view look more like the Pars (Persian) one is to engrave it with whorls! I wish that the forepart of the helment, was still in place, for it seems to me it might well look much like the famous "Phyrigian Cap!", or "Liberty Cap", signifing a "Freed man!"
His racial or ethnic background might well be more noticeable from the three quarter view! I would have no problem describing him as Danish or some other Germanic or Gothic or Scandanavian background!

The Parthian princess looks much like any made up nine to twelve year old girl! But she looks especially Western to my eye.

The bust of the older man, seems to personify almost an idealized vision of a Roman statesman, etc.

The last bust, shows us what again might well be a fake head covering, IE, a wig, and a very stylized beard! But, his facial features, which we can only see frontally, do not seem much different from those seen of the Frankish knights or kings!

Edited by opuslola - 12-Nov-2009 at 13:26
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2009 at 11:04
That is a very good post opuslola, I always love to hear from those ones who take notice to the details, I think most of those Parthian sculptures seem to be in the Greek style but they don't look like Greeks, as you said they could be Northern Europeans.
 
As you probably know and I mentioned in another thread, Parthians have never been called by Persians as "Parthian" but "Ashkanian/Ascanian", they probably came from "remote Ascania" and first appeared in Parthia, in the northeast of modern Iran, so they were also called "Parthian" by Romans. Who were Ascanians? Search for it in google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ascanian&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
 
There are some interesting connections between Phrygians and Parthians (Ashkanian in Persian, Ashkuz in Assyrian, Ashkenaz in Hebrew [the Hebrew word is also used for "Germany"]), as you read in The Iliad, By Homer, the ancient Greek poet says "Godlike Ascanius and Phorcys brought the Phrygians from remote Ascania;"
 
 
The kingdom was created by Indo-Europeans who began to infiltrate into Bithynia in western Anatolia from the Balkans after about 1450 BC. Moving south and east, they settled the region a little way inland from the north-western corner of Anatolia, with Mysia and the Troad to their north-west. Linguistically, they bore some relationship with the Armenians who later occupied the mountains in the north of Mesopotamia in the kingdoms of Nairi and Urartu.
 

fl c.1180s BC

Ascanius

His dau, Hecuba, m Priam of Troy.

c.1193 - 1183 BC

Prince Ascanius and Phorcys lead the Phrygian contingent from remote Ascania to the Trojan War on the side of Troy.



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 13-Nov-2009 at 11:11
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2009 at 19:08
Dear Cyrus, perhaps the words used by you above really described the "Ashkenazi?", and variant spellings? You do know that in the Hebrew and Christian Bible, the KIng of Persia, who met with the Jewish exiles, did proclaim that they were "brothers in faith" or words to that effect! IE, he, Cyrus, I think?, knew that they all professed faith in the same God! Maybe the so called Indo European language, was processed towards the West, via the spoken language rather than the Religious or Royal tounge?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2009 at 19:16
And, in a personal approach, I would ask you as why you would submit a pictogram of a "lover" of the "King", as your cartouche? It seems to me to suggest the love of Jesus (the King of Kings) towards his closest love, which may have either been "John" or Jean? You, should undertand, that the paintings of DaVinci, and others seem to represent the "beloved of Iesus" as either an effiminate man or a woman? Your "cartouche'" seems to emulate these?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 13-Nov-2009 at 19:17
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Tusi View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2009
Location: Boston
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26
  Quote Tusi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2009 at 23:50
there are Hellenic influences since the Parthians (Ashkanians) came after the Seleucids.. I believe the second last image should be a Seleucid figure and not Parthian
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2009 at 01:34
The Greek influence existed in the Achaemnied period too, Darius the Great himself says "Martiya karnuvaka tyaiy athagam akunavata avaiy Yauna." which means "The stone-cutters who wrought the stone, those were Greeks."
Back to Top
Tusi View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2009
Location: Boston
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26
  Quote Tusi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2009 at 07:53
Also your question (Parthians looked like which modern people?) is almost impossible to answer. Modern Iranians are so mixed that you have to go to the periphery to find tracks of old races. I strongly recommend this interview with Dr. Maziyar Ashrafian who has done the only serious research on race in Iran:

rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/persian/2003/070828_mehmanehafte.ra?BBC-UID=f48adf4e7046f881565da42291370bdfff95b545a01042 c162880034e4fdb204_n&SSO2-UID=
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2009 at 12:06
Parthians shouldn't necessarily look like just modern Iranian peoples, in all probability they entered the Iranian plateau from the north east of the country, so I think their descendants can be found among Turkmens of Iran, -> http://www.turkmens.com/Photoes/IranTurkmens/175.jpg
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2009 at 13:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Parthians shouldn't necessarily look like just modern Iranian peoples, in all probability they entered the Iranian plateau from the north east of the country, so I think their descendants can be found among Turkmens of Iran, -> http://www.turkmens.com/Photoes/IranTurkmens/175.jpg


Cyrus, I think you have posted this photo and a few others at another thread, but if you were to bring this photo to Mississippi USA, no one would bother to wonder the heritage of these children, they would automatically think that they were from England, Scotland, Germany, Holland, etc.!

IE, they would look like typical White Southerners! Who, came mostly from the above backgrounds.

There would be no thought that they were from N. Iran, or Iraq, etc.!

Cyrus, and others, the following site is a cemetary listing of persons buried in just one cemetary in a typical Mississippi setting. If you know anything about names, just look at the typical cemetary names found here;
http://teafor2.com/Murphy_WinstonCoMS.htm




Edited by opuslola - 20-Nov-2009 at 14:17
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Tusi View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2009
Location: Boston
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 26
  Quote Tusi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2009 at 11:35
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Parthians shouldn't necessarily look like just modern Iranian peoples, in all probability they entered the Iranian plateau from the north east of the country, so I think their descendants can be found among Turkmens of Iran, -> http://www.turkmens.com/Photoes/IranTurkmens/175.jpg


When they entered Parthia the entire region of modern Russia and Central Asia (Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, etc) contained Iranian peoples (Scythians, Bactrians, Soghdians, etc).

Them being Turanian origin is a backdated theory which is mainly composed of the following points:
- Their Aryan names containing Turanian elements
- Non-originality of culture similar to Turkic races (i.e. using Greek text, architecture, etc.)
- Their way of life, i.e. pastoral, warrior-like, etc.

Their way of life can be applied to pre-civilized Iranians/Aryans such as the Scythians. They also once had "borders" with the Turanians to the far east of the continent which could have very well influenced their names. Also the non-originality of their culture is also non-logical.

With regards to the pic you posted, the entire central asian countries are a mixture of Turanian and Iranian, their mixing took place way after the Parthian and Sassanian era.
You can find amongst them majority mixes, though you can still find full makes up of Iranian as well as Mongoloid and even Slavic.
Back to Top
TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 22-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2009 at 23:53
I have two issues with some comments on this threat by Cyrus Shahmiri:
 
1. The Achaemenids were not influenced by Greek art and Architecture, they were influenced by Assyrian and Babylonian art and architecture. Mentioning the Greeks as sculptors does not constitue influence.
 
Infact, Greek influence only entered the Neart East after Alexander's conquest. The Parthians preserved Greek influence in Asia longer than any other Iranian civilization. Greco-Bactria was also significant in preserving Greek culture in Central Asia.
 
By Greek culture I mean art and architecture, not necessarily language or social culture.
 
2. The Parthians were not Turkic, nor were their ancestors Turkic. You cannot use pictures of modern peoples to determine the ethnicity of peoples who lived thousands of years ago (most people on the planet are mixed). You can use DNA, but not pictures.
 
The Turkic Parthian "theory" was fringe, never really even taken seriously, and is no longer even acknowledged.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 08:41
Ethnic and culture are two different things, it is very clear that Parthians were an Iranian-speaking people and had an Iranian culture but their ethnicity could be different.
Back to Top
TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 22-Nov-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 15:43
No, as mentioned above, Central Asia back then was dominated by Iranian peoples. The Turkic tribes would not penetrate that deep until the Sassanian period, and then not into the Middle East until Islamic times.

There is no possible way that the Parthians could have been ethnic Turks, they didnt even look Turkic. The Parthian Turkic theory was discredit a long time ago.

I think you might be reading some outdated books. There are some things in history that we are not completely sure on, or there may be doubt about, or there may not be conclusive evidence for, but this isnt one of them.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 23-Nov-2009 at 15:44
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 16:59
Maybe the "periods" were confused? Or maybe the they were the same?

Edited by opuslola - 24-Nov-2009 at 16:14
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 07:19
TheGreatSimba, I don't know what you want to say, I'm myself an Iranian and believe that Parthians were certainly an Iranian people but their descendants should be searched among the people of modern Turkmenistan and the northeastern part of Iran where we know ancient Parthians came from, if these people already speak a Turkic language, then it can't be said that they can't be descendants of ancient Parthians, don't you think so? The city of Ashkanians is Ashkabad, the capital city of Turkmenistan.

Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 24-Nov-2009 at 07:32
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.061 seconds.