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Topic ClosedGhengis Khan
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battleaxe View Drop Down
Janissary
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Posts: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ghengis Khan
    Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 16:08

hannibal says :Genghis Khan belonged to Chinese Mongols and Mixed blood Chinese Mongols together with those mongols in Mongolia.

southern (inner) Mongolia wasnt a part of china back then, the 'chinese mongols' lost a part of their mongol heritage and became more 'chinese' afterwards. saying genghis khan belongs to both the 'chinese mongols' and the 'mongols in mongolia' therefore he is chinese is like saying Yi Sun Shin belongs both to Korean-Americans and Koreans in Korea, therefore he can be an American hero.
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Posts: 2187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2004 at 17:57
BTW Battle Axe, are you a fellow gook?
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Pretorian
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Posts: 185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 07:25
Originally posted by battleaxe

hannibal says :Genghis Khan belonged to Chinese Mongols and Mixed blood Chinese Mongols together with those mongols in Mongolia.

southern (inner) Mongolia wasnt a part of china back then, the 'chinese mongols' lost a part of their mongol heritage and became more 'chinese' afterwards. saying genghis khan belongs to both the 'chinese mongols' and the 'mongols in mongolia' therefore he is chinese is like saying Yi Sun Shin belongs both to Korean-Americans and Koreans in Korea, therefore he can be an American hero.

You can also say Chinese will become more Mongolian...



Edited by hannibal
Who am I?
I'm General of Carthage;
Eternal biggest enemy of Rome.
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Gubook Janggoon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 13:04
Is meplyore a word?  I looked it up, but I couldn't find it...what does it mean?


Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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Chieftain
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Posts: 1185 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 14:23
probably a typo of a word.  How was it used in the sentence?
Grrr..
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Posts: 2187 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 15:15
It was in hannibals post, I guess he edited it...
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Janissary
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Posts: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 12:41
yeah I'm Korean, doesn't 'gook' mean Vietnamese tho?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 14:27

I do not understand some posters here.

Just an exemple: Julius Cesar was a Roman and Rome invaded most parts of Europe. Is it contradictory to the fact that the Russian emperor called himself "Tsar" (Cesar) or the German leader "Kaiser" (Cesar)? I remind you that the Roman legions fought against the German tribes (who were Barbaric for Romans).
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Sirdar Bahadur

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Posts: 5221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 15:07
and what exactly is your point here?
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Posts: 1460 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 02:04

I think the term 'gook' includes all east asian peoples. It was a term used a lot by Americans in the Vietnam war, thats why most people associate the word with the Vietnamese.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 14:35

Temujin:

My point is that it is perfectly understandable that Chinese people consider Gengis Khan as a national hero, although Mongols under his rule have slaughtered many Chinese 700 years ago.

Just like the German king called himself "Kaiser", in tribute to the great Cesar, who has slaughtered many Germanic people more than 1000 years ago.
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Sirdar Bahadur

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Posts: 5221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 18:58

but Chinese don't call their ruler Khan...

besides, numerous barbarians served Rome, and ultimately those barbarians conquered Rome, it's only natural they style themselves with their booty...
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Pretorian
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Posts: 154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 23:33
One food for thought for everyone.
How could a few Mongols eventually conquer and unify China?
They are not even 1/100 the population of the Hans, Jurchen, Nanchaoans, Xixia,Tibetans, etcc..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 11:27

Temujin:

>but Chinese don't call their ruler Khan...

Bravo, great argument! You should be awarded the Nobel prize for your contribution to this forum well known among historians.

>besides, numerous barbarians served Rome, and ultimately those barbarians conquered Rome, it's only natural they style themselves with their booty...

and another Nobel prize for psychological history
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Sirdar Bahadur

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Posts: 5221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 16:08

so how does the fact that almost EVERY Steppe people called their ruler Khan or Khagan fit in your kaiser-theory? maybe because it's just a simple LANGUAGE thing?

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Baron
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Posts: 434 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 19:01
Originally posted by fgabriel

Temujin:

My point is that it is perfectly understandable that Chinese people consider Gengis Khan as a national hero, although Mongols under his rule have slaughtered many Chinese 700 years ago.

Just like the German king called himself "Kaiser", in tribute to the great Cesar, who has slaughtered many Germanic people more than 1000 years ago.

Oh, so it is natural for Bosnians to consider Milochevic a hero 700 years from now... And Chinese will call Tojo a hero a few years from now...

The Chinese so hated the Mongol rule that in less than a century of it they rose up and overthrew the Yuan dynasty. Now they want to glorify a man who started all that...

By the way Caeser was a title, although it was derived from Julius Caeser's name. All Roman emperors used it. The probable reason why it entered the German language is that there was no such term before they learnt it from the Latins. After all, they were all barbarians that did not know what was an "empire".

So I don't think Kaiser is a direct invocation of Roman heritege.
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Posts: 760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 20:32
I'm really sick of applying modern national concept to ancient empires. And there are some people who are extremely ignorant of historical facts. First of all saying Chinese as a whole hate the mongol is pure nonsense. The upper landowning class loved the Yuan, they were enriched by it and had power by the end. The rebellion of the so called "chinese" is just the peasants and they directed this not to the mongols but to the rich in general. Thus the wealthy land owners are the most loyal defender of the yuan regime and helped fight the peasant rebels, there is nothing about national hatred in this rebellion, only after Zhu Yuan Zhang defeated all his rivals and conquered all of the south did he declare driving out the "barbarians" for support, but the rebellion as a whole has nothing to do with anti mongol.
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Posts: 105 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 16:06
Yeah right, that's why Ming destroyed all what was foreign, killed and drove out all foreigners. It was just a happily communist world revolutionistic feat done by chinese hundreds years ahead of the russians.
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Baron
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Posts: 434 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 22:36

I said Chinese hated Mongol rule:

Are peasents not the majority of "Chinese"?

Arn't Yuan the "Mongols"?

Stop distorting my words for your own purpose.

By the way quite a lot of Frenchmen supported Vichy in Nazi-Occupied France - but wasn't the liberation a patriotic war waged in name of French nationalism???

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General
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Posts: 760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 14:17

"Yeah right, that's why Ming destroyed all what was foreign, killed and drove out all foreigners. "

 

they didn't, just those that are hated by the commoners ming killed alot of the hated Han too, so whats your point? 

 

"I said Chinese hated Mongol rule:

Are peasents not the majority of "Chinese"?"

 

And your wrong because the Chinese revolted against the regime not directed against a ethnic group in particular.

 

"Arn't Yuan the "Mongols"?"

 

sure, so your saying that when the peasants overthrew a regime they hate the regime's race? Sorry but that makes absolutly no sense. So the Chinese also hate the Han race for overthrwoing the Han government?

 

"Stop distorting my words for your own purpose. "

 

I didn't distort anything, you should learn to speak better, and its not for any purpose but historical accuracy which you propaganlalists distort all the time.

"By the way quite a lot of Frenchmen supported Vichy in Nazi-Occupied France - but wasn't the liberation a patriotic war waged in name of French nationalism???"

 

So the french revolution means the French people hate the French race? Nonsense as usual. 
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