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Why didn't the allies declare war on the USSR?

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why didn't the allies declare war on the USSR?
    Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 12:16
Hitler always wanted to attack and conquer France. The German-French rivalry had at that point been going on for almost 100 years.

Hitler, however, did not want to completely defeat Britain, he did prefer to have them as an ally.

With regards to the Poland alliance proposal, I'd never heard of such a thing before...source?
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 12:51
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

 
With regards to the Poland alliance proposal, I'd never heard of such a thing before...source?
 
Reports of Polish ministry of foreign affairs from years 1937-1939.
 
From:
 
 
"In May 1933, Hitler met with Herbert von Dirksen, the German Ambassador in Moscow. Dirksen advised the Führer that he was allowing relations with the Soviet Union to deteriorate to a unacceptable extent, and advised to take immediate steps to repair relations with the Soviets.[85] Much to Dirksen's intense disappointment, Hitler informed that he wished for an anti-Soviet understanding with Poland...."
 
"A more successful initiative in foreign policy occurred with relations with Poland. In spite of intense opposition from the military and the Auswärtiges Amt who preferred closer ties with the Soviet Union, Hitler, in the fall of 1933 opened secret talks with Poland that were to lead to the German–Polish Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934."
 
 
"In August 1935, Hitler told Goebbels his foreign policy vision as: "With England eternal alliance. Good relationship with Poland . . . Expansion to the East. The Baltic belongs to us . . . Conflicts Italy-Abyssinia-England, then Japan-Russia imminent.""
 
 
"At the time of the signing of the Anti-Comintern Pact, invitations were sent out for Britain, China, Italy and Poland to adhere; of the invited powers only the Italians were to sign the pact, in November 1937."
 
 
"Hitler saw as his would-be allies in the form of Italy, Japan, Poland and Hungary that they would not fight on behalf of Germany; and very visible signs that the majority of Germans were not enthusiastic about the prospect of war."
 
"As part of the anti-British course, it was deemed necessary by Hitler to have Poland either a satellite state or otherwise neutralized. Hitler believed this necessary both on strategic grounds as a way of securing the Reich's eastern flank and on economic grounds as a way of evading the effects of a British blockade.[229] Initially, the German hope was to transform Poland into a satellite state, but by March 1939 the German demands had been rejected by the Poles three times, which led Hitler to decide upon the destruction of Poland as the main German foreign policy goal of 1939."
 
 
 
And check in this book page 575
 


Edited by Mosquito - 16-Nov-2010 at 13:33
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 17:07
There is also an interesting fact worth adding here. France had such strong fascist faction at the onset of WWII that large part of its guerilla fight was really a civill war between left, center and fascists.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 18:10
America and its leadership during WW-II, were just as Socialist as the Soviet Union! FDR, and most of his advisors were long time Socialists / progressives!

Or do you not agree?
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 18:35
Originally posted by opuslola

America and its leadership during WW-II, were just as Socialist as the Soviet Union! FDR, and most of his advisors were long time Socialists / progressives!

Or do you not agree?
I would rather say that some of FDR's advisors were rather the secret agents of Moscow
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 18:42
Mosquito wrote above;
"I would rather say that some of FDR's advisors were rather the secret agents of Moscow"

It is necessary for me to exhibit that Mosquito is a very shy person!

His word "rather" is more of a PC answer than anything else!

After all, his uncle Teddy was one of the original "progressives!"

But, I could well be wrong to speak for him?

Edited by opuslola - 16-Nov-2010 at 18:44
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 19:18
Ill give one name ;)
 
For example Alger Hiss was a soviet spy and had influence on FDR, was together with him in Yalta.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2010 at 22:00
Yes, of course Alger and his wife!

But have you ever read the book written by J. Egare Hoover? Or at least "None dare call it treason?"

Edited by opuslola - 16-Nov-2010 at 22:00
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2010 at 12:21
Originally posted by opuslola

Yes, of course Alger and his wife!

But have you ever read the book written by J. Egare Hoover? Or at least "None dare call it treason?"
 
Dont know these books. However I do realise that Soviet spies around FDR had large influence on the results of Yalta and Potsdam conferences.
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2010 at 13:19
Originally posted by opuslola

America and its leadership during WW-II, were just as Socialist as the Soviet Union! FDR, and most of his advisors were long time Socialists / progressives!

Or do you not agree?

You really do not know what you are talking about. Soviet Union was a communist country based on a very totalitarian ideology. This is not to be confused with social democracy, based on a mixed economy (government/capitalist) as it can be observed in all industrial countries, since WWII. 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2010 at 14:40
Sorry Mosquito, I gave you the wrong book title above, the book written by John Edgar Hoover (FBI) was entitled "Masters of Deceit";

http://books.google.com/books?id=U503AAAAIAAJ&q=&hl=en

"None Dare Call It Treason" was written by Mr. Stormer!

Both are very good reads!

Edited by opuslola - 17-Nov-2010 at 14:41
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2010 at 21:41
Originally posted by Mosquito

Ill give one name ;)
 
For example Alger Hiss was a soviet spy and had influence on FDR, was together with him in Yalta.
You seem to be more certain that most of historians that studied this case. What are your sources?
Anything that came from McCarthy hearings is highly suspect and there is no reliable evidence.


Edited by cavalry4ever - 17-Nov-2010 at 22:09
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2010 at 23:07
From the last evidence I have heard, it seems the case is more solid than ever!

Perhaps I can find the sources? And some people think that Joe was more correct than you do! I think her name is? She is blond and beautiful and wrote a book on Joe, etc.!
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 07:31
Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Anything that came from McCarthy hearings is highly suspect and there is no reliable evidence.
 
 
Senator McCarthy and his activity was the best thing that ever happend to USA during the cold war.




Edited by cavalry4ever - 18-Nov-2010 at 09:27
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 07:41
It's never been officially confirmed.  All evidence against them produced since the downfall of the Soviet Union is highly questionable. 
Prosecuting Alger Hiss made Dick Nixon.  I don't think it much mattered to Nixon if Hiss was guilty or not.
 
Joe MacCarthy was an alchoholic, opportunistic nutcase.  The blonde your alluding to is just as whacked.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 07:49
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Anything that came from McCarthy hearings is highly suspect and there is no reliable evidence.
 
 
Senator McCarthy and his activity was the best thing that ever happend to USA during the cold war.
 
 
 
McCarthy's fear mongering was one of the worst things that happened.  It destroyed the lives of many good people.  McCarthy's Red Menace thing did absolutely nothing as far as the spread of communism was concerned.  I agree 100% with C4E, anything that came out of the McCarthy hearings should be looked at, then forgotten.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 07:52
Originally posted by red clay

 
Joe MacCarthy was an alchoholic, opportunistic nutcase.  The blonde your alluding to is just as whacked.
 
 
This is truth, he wasnt an angel, but he did awesome job cleaning many institutions from communists who would be spying for USSR. All those ppl were idealists and unfortunatelly, idealists are ready to commit any crime, including high treason.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 08:09
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by red clay

 
Joe MacCarthy was an alchoholic, opportunistic nutcase.  The blonde your alluding to is just as whacked.
 
 
This is truth, he wasnt an angel, but he did awesome job cleaning many institutions from communists who would be spying for USSR. All those ppl were idealists and unfortunatelly, idealists are ready to commit any crime, including high treason.
 
 
No he didn't.  That's the point.  The people he investigated weren't anything other than ordinary American citizens.  All he really did was make it impossible for some of the finest scientific minds we had at the time, to make a living as scientists or as college professors.  None of those folks were communists.  Some, were certainly socialist in their views, but please don't make the mistake of lumping socialists with communists, that's basically what McCarthy did.
His stupidity deprived the US of much needed scientists, engineers etc. at a time when we really needed them. 
There are many books written on this, but the easiest way to find out how ridiculous it was is to research the final results.  How many real communists did they find, how many were imprisoned etc.
 
 


Edited by red clay - 18-Nov-2010 at 08:11
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 09:29
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by cavalry4ever

Anything that came from McCarthy hearings is highly suspect and there is no reliable evidence.
 
 
Senator McCarthy and his activity was the best thing that ever happend to USA during the cold war.



You must be kidding. His hearings were as un-American as can be imagined. Only stuff that came close to this were some activities during Bush era. 

Just to put in the perspective the Communist witch hunting from McCarthy era. The worse breach of security in the history of US came from a religious zealot, opus dei member - Hanssen. 

Serious spying in US was not done by communists. The fact that you equate communists with spies is flawed also.


Sorry Mosquito, I hit accidentally edit instead of quote button and messed up your post.



Edited by cavalry4ever - 18-Nov-2010 at 09:54
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2010 at 10:28
Since there are two un-reconcilible views concerning Communist and McCarthy, etc., then I would suggest that we get back to the topic itself!

But, to suggest such is the job of a moderator and not me! Sorry!

I would suggest that it was the attitude of the citizens of America, and GB, etc., that prevented such an attack! That, and the friendly attitude shown towards the USSR by the Rooseveldt administration!

If the war had been continued, then it would have resulted in a large vote against any politician who supported it, and a total change in the governments of all of the Allies, other than those who did not permit free elections like the USSR and China!
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