Could the Me 262 have won the ww2?

Originally posted by Rossef Germans would need more edge than mass producing jet fighters...

Edited by Cryptic - 04-Apr-2012 at 10:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI-z64G3tvU

Absolutely. The Nazis were so short of fuel in 1945 they reverted to horse-drawn artillery and used their tanks as dug-in pillboxes during battles. Had they developed biofuels and put their conquest of the Middle East on hold the war might have taken a different, and more sinister, turn

Originally posted by Etnad Hitler demanded that the Me 262s where rebuild so they could carry a bombload. Thats where the Me 262 lost its advantage. I guess you are right, it was more usefull on the western front against the flying fortress.

Originally posted by Al Jassas The bombing campaign only became effective in 44 and after, before that it was just a waist of men, planes and resources in addition to plain mass musrder.   Let us take the oil field at Ploiesti. The bombing there began in 1940 from fields in Greece. Resumed by the Americans in 42 it achieved nothing. The fields pumped as much oil as ever. In 43 bases in Italy began to bomb the fields and again the effect was little. Only in late Spring 1944 when three gigantic waves of bomber fleets each of more than 1000 bombers did the distruction of Ploiesti was completed in June or July. Less than a week after the Red army took the city almost without contest. So sooner or later the city would have fallen any way without the American effort.   Same goes to the rest of bombing campaigns. Russia lost 11 million men in the east and had 20 million others under arms. How many did the allies field?   If there was a weapon that could have achieved anything for the Germans it would have been type XXI U-boat. The best U-boat ever and yet the germans decided for no reason not to mass produce it.   Al-Jassas

Originally posted by opuslola If one looks at the German production of war material, what one will really see is the fact that Germany was beset with multiple weapons systems, and mostly competative versions of them. If Herr Hitler and others in the German High Command, had the vision, they would have standardized their military rather than having multiple weapon manufacturers build competative versions! It eventually proved to be a logistical supply nightmare!

yes they could've built a lot more panther tanks per tigers or king tigers, ..had more tanks and less logistics problems....

If one looks at the German production of war material, what one will really see is the fact that Germany was beset with multiple weapons systems, and mostly competative versions of them. If Herr Hitler and others in the German High Command, had the vision, they would have standardized their military rather than having multiple weapon manufacturers build competative versions!

It eventually proved to be a logistical supply nightmare!

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello to you all   The war was won on the eastern front not in the west. Me262 was useless against the 25k+ tanks massed on the German borders from the east and as Cryptic said, the crushing number of allied fighters (some 50k+) was enough to make them useless on the western front.   Germany's real problem  always was logistics. They simply didn't produce enough weapons. Russians already had 20k tanks before the war and made 55k tanks during it. The US made 61k and even Britain outproduced Germany in weaponry. Yet one can only be amazed on how much the Germans achieved with such little resources. Never the Germans had more than 4500 tanks on one front yet they achieved massive victories which only proves that the wehrmacht was the best fighting force in WWII.   Al-Jassas

I agree with the logistics...best fighting force though???the 101st stopped them at Batogne...some[US and German] were better than others

Hi to all!

I would like to put my two cents in this discussion. First of all, Germany did have an oil problem, just look at the drive to get to the oil fields in S. Russia, a drive that was basically stopped by the Little Dictator who had to destroy a certain city in Russia, which held up the possible taking of the Oil Fields! By the way, it may have also cost the Germans the entire war?

Second, the Russians were also given thousands of American made bombers, I personally knew a former German pilot who claimed a large number of B-24 kills, which he said were all Russian piloted. He also claimed to have flown the 262, as well as the Komet! He really had some good stories. He was based somewhere in what I now think was Austria right before the end of the war, and he said they used the Autobahn as their runway! They hid their aircraft in the trees along side of the highways. He told me they would do early morning attacks upon the Russian airfields in Poland, etc., arriving before the Russian aircraft were even aloft. One of his best tactics, since his 109 looked very similar to the Russian aircraft, whose number or name I cannot remember, would sometimes approach the Russian right after takeoff, and he said the Russians did not have radios on most of their aircraft, or at least not aircraft radio. He would then, in the early morning mist and darkness, merely waggle his wings saying he was a friend, and watch while the Russian acknowleged his approach.   Then he would merely fall behind the heavy (full fuel load) Russian and easily shoot him down. He also describe his attacks upon large bomber formations in the Komet. He said he would light his rocket, and circle at high altitude, above the bomber formations until he had them set up, then he would merely dive under the formation, and fire his cannon which were mounted at something like a 45 degree angle on his rocket plane, and merely shoot up amongst them! No sights to speak of, just a solid layer of aircraft almost wing tip to wing tip, and easy targets! He would then light his hydrogen peroxide rocket engine again, assuming he had cannon rounds still avialable and perform the same act again.

He told me that right before the end of the war, an American group actualy drove up to his base, under a white flag. The Americans spoke to his commanding officer, about the eminent truce, and asked if the Germans would surrender their base and all equipment in toto. The German commander told the Americans that he whould consider such a thing, and after the departure of the Americans the Germans had a meeting. It was decided that they would make one last attack upon the Russian storage / supply depots in Poland. Thus they made ready all aircraft possible, load all bombs possible, and then they made an early morning raid upon Warsaw, reportedly destroying a large fuel depot amongst other targets. They caught the Russians asleep, and all aircraft returned, where by they then rigged all of their aircraft with explosives, burned all official documents, and then when the cease fire was announced, they got into their vehicles and headed towards what they thought were the American lines.

While they expected to be stopped and taken prisoner, instead the American units they met, merely ignored them! They continued driving until they spotted some Soviet T-34 tanks, made a quick turn around, and demanded to be taken prisoner by the first American unit they found!

After finding the POW camps near them were terrible places, they merely walked out of the camp, and headed West. Eventually finding a camp that was comfortable.

My source was eventually taken to England where he worked for an English family who had lost their only son in the war. He was only re-patriated to Germany after about two years!

According to my source (his first name was Hans) he had also kept, hidden reels of gun film from his base, which he later donated to the Air Museum in Dayton, Ohio!

Next, regardless of what some Western Army commanders might have thought, during the race for Berlin, Western armies fought mostly old men and raw teen agers. The real "flower" of Germany fought on the Eastern front! It even appears to me that the German high command tried to make it easy for the Western allies! But, that might well just be my idea?

Again, as regards Oil, there seems to be a reason why German tanks from about 1942 or so, especially the Panther and Tiger tanks, did not have ball bearings in the rolling parts of there tank propulsion and track controls wheels! IE, they were, as I have been told, only a an alloy bushing (brass?) not lubricated that kept these wheels turning, that is why even in bad WW II movies that the German tanks "sgueeked! and "clanked" while moving! The main reason? NO lubricating oil needed!

By the way, I once read somewhere that the Me 262 had a 30 to 1 kill ratio against Allied fighters!

Did you know that reportedly the Soviet had 100,000 cannon surrounding Berlin?

Alons,

Edited by opuslola - 07-Oct-2009 at 06:45

Originally posted by Miller Originally posted by nuvolari and applied in sufficient quantities,.   Sufficient quantities probably summerizes the most important factor. Similar to Tiger tank the number wer not high enough to make a big enough difference