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Dawn View Drop Down
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Posts: 3148 		  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alternitives
    Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 13:55
With the raging debate on capitalism still on going (and very interesting I might add) Some might enjoy propossing an alternitive: Whay are the other options? Does someone have a thought on some new form ?

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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 17:54

Communism is a viable alternative to capitalism as pointed out in the Capitalsim thread. Communism works in free societies, as does capitalism and both fail in oppressive ones. It is more fair and more efficicient in many ways but doesn't really solve many of the accusations thrown at capitalism: sustainability, and creates a few new ones. Such as the inferiority of a command economy over a free market.

Instead I would go for free market mutualism. Unlike communism it requires no turning of society on it's head. Mutualist companies exist happily within this one and are generally successful. In fact in the UK mutualist banks out competed regular ones so effectively and were on the brink of taking over, the government stepped in to stop this. And this is the only real drawback of mutualism, it can outcompete capitalism on the free market, but capitalist society doesn't like a free market.

http://new-mutualism.poptel.org.uk/



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 09:39

Instead I would go for free market mutualism. Unlike communism it requires no turning of society on it's head. Mutualist companies exist happily within this one and are generally successful. In fact in the UK mutualist banks out competed regular ones so effectively and were on the brink of taking over, the government stepped in to stop this. And this is the only real drawback of mutualism, it can outcompete capitalism on the free market, but capitalist society doesn't like a free market.

http://new-mutualism.poptel.org.uk/


Sounds interesting, but the link doesn't work.

I think welfare states (the ones that were created after WW2 in Europe and that are currently broken down) work pretty good. It combines both the benefits of both capitalism (economic growth) and socialism (social equality). On the UN Human development index welfare states score very high:
   1. Norway
   2. Sweden
   3. Australia
   4. Canada
   5. Netherlands
   6. Belgium
   7. Iceland
   8. United States
   9. Japan
  10. Ireland
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 12:28

Japan????? A welfare state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tried the link is seems to work fine for me,

maybe the page is selective about who it allows in..
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 13:14
Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli

Instead I would go for free market mutualism. Unlike communism it requires no turning of society on it's head. Mutualist companies exist happily within this one and are generally successful. In fact in the UK mutualist banks out competed regular ones so effectively and were on the brink of taking over, the government stepped in to stop this. And this is the only real drawback of mutualism, it can outcompete capitalism on the free market, but capitalist society doesn't like a free market.

http://new-mutualism.poptel.org.uk/


Sounds interesting, but the link doesn't work.

I think welfare states (the ones that were created after WW2 in Europe and that are currently broken down) work pretty good. It combines both the benefits of both capitalism (economic growth) and socialism (social equality). On the UN Human development index welfare states score very high:
   1. Norway
   2. Sweden
   3. Australia
   4. Canada
   5. Netherlands
   6. Belgium
   7. Iceland
   8. United States
   9. Japan
  10. Ireland

Yes, welfare states like European nations like Germany and France that have twice as great an unemployment rate as the United States.  Not too mention a much smaller GDP per capita.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 05:24
Originally posted by Genghis

Yes, welfare states like European nations like Germany and France that have twice as great an unemployment rate as the United States.  Not too mention a much smaller GDP per capita.


That may be true, but life is better there. I think that's far more important.
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Posts: 204 		  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 07:37

Why the heck isn't Finland included a welfare state?! It has the best educational system, best hospital system, best library system, it's capitel Helsinki is the worlds second safest, Finland is the most competitive country in markets, and you don't include it!!! I'm appauled.....

 



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 09:19
I copied that list from the wikipedia. It says the 10 countries with the highest standard of life. I wanted to show that welfare states are on the top of the list (but not all countries on top of the list are welfare states btw).
Finland has the 13th highest standard of living
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 11:05

I wonder what the criteria are. UN when they do these kind of surveys always count ratio of free space to people, fresh water supplies and untapped natural resources. Which is why Canada always comes top.

http://www.finfacts.com/qualityoflife.htm

http://www.economist.com/theworldin/international/displaySto ry.cfm?story_id=3372495&d=2005

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Posts: 3148 		  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2005 at 11:26
Originally posted by Paul

I wonder what the criteria are. UN when they do these kind of surveys always count ratio of free space to people, fresh water supplies and untapped natural resources. Which is why Canada always comes top.

 

That and Canada is a really good place to live

"The Human Development Index (HDI), published annually by the UN, ranks nations according to their citizens' quality of life rather than strictly by a nation's traditional economic figures. The criteria for calculating rankings include life expectancy, educational attainment, and adjusted real income."

is what they say they use.

 

 



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