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What did the Romans steal from the Greeks?

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  Quote Falkor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What did the Romans steal from the Greeks?
    Posted: 15-May-2009 at 14:54
Here's what I've managed to come up with so far, which isn't very much:
-Sculpture
-Temples
-Theatres
 
Please help add to the list!
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 15:10
Well, I'd take a vast amount of issue with those - firstly, the conception of "Greece" as being what is the country today is essentially an anachronism - "Greece" extended across the medditeranian to southern France, Italy, Sicily and Spain. Although clearly, there is a "Greece proper", the Peloponnese, Delphi, Ionia and Attica for example, in ancient sources, the idea that the Romans developed as a seperate people with a distinct cultural identity is a little flawed. Obviously, the Romans, Etruscans and Latins do differ vastly in many respects from 5th century Greeks, but it is important to emphasise that, even in the mysterious years of the early kingdom (e.g. the forum burials etc) an obvious amount of Greek influence can be seen. The term "steal" is emotivist and rather downplays your argument - one of the earlier examples that we have of the interchange of these cultures is sources - from Livy, but obviously questionable - is the reputed journey of the Decimvirs to Athens to get advice which would later be incorporated into the ten tables. Even before the Gallic invasion of 390/389 BC, Roman military forces and even society were largely similar to Greek models in some respects, but with some major differences. The very eytemology of many Italian cities - Neapolis for example - are clearly Greek, and under Perikles, in the mid 5th century an Athenian colony was created at Thurii in Italy. Sicilian history is marked with the invasions of the Carthagians against the Greek city states (repulsed at Himera in 480 BC) - the famous c.470 statue of the Delphic charioteer - one of the prime examples of bronze-casting in early Classical art, was dedicated by a Sicilian tyrant. Moreover, Roman temples were markedly different in many crucial respects (e.g. no Opisthodomos, numerous Adytons (second Naoi), a unique take on the Corinthian style and a tendency towards increased amount of Acroterioi). The term "steal" is simply derogatory - the fact that, even before there was a concerted Roman military occupation in Greece to counter the Selecuid and Antigonid threat, Roman theatre and comedy was flourishing under those such as Plautus, is evidence enough - there is even evidence of earlier playwrights before the Pyhrric wars for god's sake! I don't want to sound insulting, but I feel that you somewhat underestimate the fluidity of ancient culture and the joint literary heritage of the "two peoples", if, until the Hellenistic period at least, we can make such a vast distinction. However, that said, it is naturally true to say that the Italian preoccupation with ethnically based leagues politically shows us a rather different concept of power in Italy when we compare this with Greece, in which such Federalism was to emerge in the 2nd century, and even then amongst the pseudo-Greeks such as the Phocians and Locrians. I would strongly direct you to read up a little more on the subject.
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 20:51
I wouldn't really say steal...Ok, much was imported during the imperial age, but nevertheless Greeks lived in the south and produced localy those things.

Another example are the Etruscans. Romans didn't steal their art, since the Etruscans were incorporated in Rome.




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  Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-May-2009 at 21:24
What did the Romans "steal" from the Greeks?
Falkor wrote:
Here's what I've managed to come up with so far, which isn't very much:
-Sculpture
-Temples
-Theatres
 
Unfortunately, the premise is more than tenuous given the fact that none of the preceeding are Greek "innovations" either. Further, the Greeks were never engineers in the manner of the earlier Egyptians and the later Romans. One may claim the influence of diffusion in the Mediterranean world, however, other considerations must receive attention not the least of which are substance and utility. Certainly, everyone knows the Egyptian origins of the early Greek kouros and early Roman architecture has a greater affinity to the Etruscan than anything Greek. In addition, what many would identify today as Greek is more or less what in architectural terms is known as Composite and emblematic of Roman imperial architecture from the 1st through 3rd centuries. One has to keep in mind that artistic styles are somewhat different from innovative creativity. For example, Greek sculpture lacks "personaility", it was fully formulaic; in contrast, Roman sculpture sought to reproduce the real--for example Trajan's column of the 80s is a prime example of realism in art, as well as an excellent capture of what is meant by the Composite style, in classical art.
 
Here is a funny example: Today almost any major Greek Orthodox structure incorporates a dome, an architectural novelty entirely Roman.
 
 
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 07:30
everything .....
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  Quote Pytheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 10:36
Originally posted by machaon

everything .....
 
Are you refering to what the Romans learnt from the Greeks or what the Greeks learnt from Egypt, Messopotamia, India and Persia?


Edited by Pytheus - 11-Oct-2009 at 10:37
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2009 at 17:04
It is only modern historigraphy that makes one preceed the other! Without prior written documents, no one would know for sure what preceeded which! Note I place little faith in 14C testing which I consider the whore of archaeology.
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 01:46
The Latin Alphabet ! It is a exact copy of the Chalkidian Alphabet... Chalkidians are  the founders
of Cuma, one of the nearest to Romans, Greek City in Italy... so the Romans ...Inteligent like they
ware... took the Chalkidian Alphabet and called it Latin!!!

about Cato the Elder:
It is clearly evident that Greek culture has impacted Roman society in countless forms from its art and architecture to its culture and ideals. In Plutarch's Cato the Elder, he makes notes of things like these, but more importantly he gives more subtle clues as to how the Greeks have
 influenced everyday Roman lives. By examining Cato, a prominent Roman citizen and a man often considered worth emulating, it is possible to see the influences of Greek culture on his life and transitively on all Roman life.
he (Cato) began to enter into the politics in Rome being hailed as "a second Demosthenes" (Plutarch, Cato the Elder, pg. 4). Herein is where the influence of Greek culture can be seen in everyday Roman life. It is not great Romans that contemporary Roman politicians are compared to, but rather great Greek ones.

I think it was Cato ...: The Romans conquered  Greece with Iron and the Greeks conquered Romans
with knowledge... or wisdom... or something like that...




Edited by machaon - 03-Nov-2009 at 02:35
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 01:59
Originally posted by Pytheus

Originally posted by machaon

everything .....
 
Are you refering to what the Romans learnd from the Greeks or what the Greeks learnd from Egypt, Messopotamia, India and Persia?

No...the Greeks took.. (if u want) the Motionless Egyptians Sculptures and made... lets say: The Sculptures of Riace (Reggio,Italy) or the Works of Fidias or Lissipos etc.....
The Romans took the Originals from Greece and copyed them ...not very well.... (Roman Copy's)

Dear Gonzaga, u say: Today almost any major Greek Orthodox structure incorporates a dome, an architectural novelty entirely Roman.

Well I don't think so...  look at the dome of the Asclepios Temple of Epidavros.... quiet a Dom yes?
and about the Pantheon in Rome:
 according to a recent re-evaluation of the bricks dated with manufacturer stamps. Therefore, the design of the extant building might belong to Trajan's architect Apollodorus of Damascus   ALSO A GREEK... Strange?

And U say that the Greeks where never Engineers? Well then the Parthenon the other Ancient Wonders, the achievements of Archimedes and all the other Light bearers ! or the war Machines
or or or.....
Wasn't that Engineering? ????Confused
 
It seams to me that you have a problem with the Greeks....Shocked

Now back to the Romans!!

of coarse they did also GREAT Things...Roman ARMY!!! Roman LAW!!! (We still live with it!!!)

But I thing...yes... they took a Lot from Greece.... And they did good!!! It enabled them to conquer the World!!!

I LOVE ROME!!!!

Greetingz from Sparta...Smile

P.S. Hope that it is not a problem that I posted twice...Confused





Edited by machaon - 03-Nov-2009 at 02:28
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  Quote manoli3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2009 at 18:00
alot of people are forgetting that etruscans were greek search the internet. i dont want to use the word copy but the word inspired.  Rome was a backwater town but the Etruscans(greeks) taught the about religion and art and how to read etc.. i imagine it like this: Greece was the teacher while Rome was the student. then when rome got older it became master. now they are both retired but still influence every thing. FYI Alot of people say that just bcuz they are italian its their history.no, in B.C there was no Italy only Rome. it was Romes  history no Italys
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 16:47
Dear Machaon, perhaps you should attribute your post to this site?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/437014/cato_an_insight_into_greek_influence.html

It is always better to attribute the place where you get the words!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2009 at 18:30
Originally posted by manoli3

alot of people are forgetting that etruscans were greek search the internet. i dont want to use the word copy but the word inspired.  Rome was a backwater town but the Etruscans(greeks) taught the about religion and art and how to read etc.. i imagine it like this: Greece was the teacher while Rome was the student. then when rome got older it became master. now they are both retired but still influence every thing. FYI Alot of people say that just bcuz they are italian its their history.no, in B.C there was no Italy only Rome. it was Romes  history no Italys


The Etruscans were not Greeks, but they, just like the Romans, were influenced by the Greeks.

The Etruscans were influenced by Greek merchants/traders, as well as the Greeks on the south of the Peninsula.
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  Quote sooty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2009 at 01:59
I don't really view the Romans in this way.  They have many things in common with the Greeks (such as their gods).  This is because the Romans were very open minded about other religions that they encountered (with exception of Christianity, however this is a complex area).  Cultures constantly share and assimiliate with each other, which is what the Romans were doing all over their empire.
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2009 at 09:28
Originally posted by opuslola

Dear Machaon, perhaps you should attribute your post to this site?
It is always better to attribute the place where you get the words!


The words come from me!!! It's what I have to say.
... Sometimes to save some time, when I can find a text... which has what I tray to say... I copy
it... English is not my Mother language... So please... if you like the original Texts...google "Cato"

imho....You should reed the text and add a coment and not bother with searching where from the
text comes.... Confused

dear sooty...I don't agree with you.

 


Edited by machaon - 13-Dec-2009 at 09:30
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2009 at 17:46
Machaon, sorry if it offends you to properly attribute the words of someone else casually!

So, I will attribute it for you, please see;

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/437014/cato_an_insight_into_greek_influence.html

It certainly would help you make your point!

Regards,
Ron
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2009 at 14:06
Originally posted by sooty

I don't really view the Romans in this way.  They have many things in common with the Greeks (such as their gods).  This is because the Romans were very open minded about other religions that they encountered (with exception of Christianity, however this is a complex area).  Cultures constantly share and assimiliate with each other, which is what the Romans were doing all over their empire.


Yes, I agree. The Romans didnt "steal" from any one, they simply merged other cultures and technologies into their own. The title of the thread implies something that is simply not true.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2009 at 21:43
Originally posted by machaon

Originally posted by opuslola

Dear Machaon, perhaps you should attribute your post to this site?
It is always better to attribute the place where you get the words!


The words come from me!!! It's what I have to say.
... Sometimes to save some time, when I can find a text... which has what I tray to say... I copy
it... English is not my Mother language... So please... if you like the original Texts...google "Cato"

imho....You should reed the text and add a coment and not bother with searching where from the
text comes.... Confused

dear sooty...I don't agree with you.

 
 
 
If you take the time to read the AE Code of Conduct, you'll see that copy paste requires sourcing.  If you have problems with English, and I should add, Who doesn't, taking the time to copy the sources will add credibility to your position.  Also it gives others the opportunity to go to your sources and eliminate any confusion due to language barriers.
 
 
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2012 at 22:29
The answer to the question is, as much as they could. The Romans educated themselves in the Greek manner and wanted to emulate them. What they took was for self promotion, as to say hey look we are like the Greek when they were powerful.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2012 at 19:15
If the Romans hadn't "stolen" Greek culture it would have been lost. Plus, Rome would never have become a great empire, but remained a collection of semi-civilised city states
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2012 at 01:12
If the Romans did not have "Greek" blood,and "Greeks" Egyptian,we could have known nothing about them either.UK emigrants from "fencing" period had come in America and created USA among the rest. Spain&Portugal&France emigrants&others have done the rest.American states today are result of their rivalry and dreams for better world different from those they had left behind them.
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Nobody have called new land with name same as land they came from.Most of the towns and places kept
the names of places they came from.


Edited by medenaywe - 16-Jan-2012 at 07:55
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