Geert Wilders

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

I think its counter-productive to refuse Wilders access to the UK. Firstly, I must feel very cynical about the British Home Office refusing anyone entry to the UK, considering its repressively anti-libertarian legislative agenda.

I'm not one to claim that free speech is an absolute or anything but come on - turning this guy away doesn't do away with the ideas he has behind him, which unfortunatley have a bit of traction in some sections of British society (BNP voters, though in fairness they are in a very small minority) Considering Britains recent troubles with xenophobic unions the government have a fair argument in refusing him access but my inner hippy see's this in a prism of freedom of speech versus the creeping statism we've been seeing in the British government since the threat of terrorism rose its head.

Their country, their rules.

This incident poses an interesting question.

Some say refusing Geert Wilders entry to Britain because of his opinions is a violation of free speech, while the British government argues it's for the sake of preserving social harmony. Now it is obvious that the ones who would have upset social harmony would be mostly Muslim, which begs the question; should we allow religious minorities to have an influence on when free speech applies, or should the government defend free speech uncompromisingly?

I know where I stand.

Hello Regi

I do not agree but I respect your view and will ponder it more as free speech. I have watched fitna and obsession and they made me love the Muslim who are victims of the extremist. Whether I support his ideas is irrelevant but his freedom to speak is, especially here.   I will read over the link Al Jassas because I, even though I don’t know you, sense you are honorable.
I do not know British law which governs speech but in the USA he is protected by our Bill of Rights and the Constitution. If someone wants to criticize Christians then by all means go ahead or the commies.

First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Hate speech laws, like in England, would ban the criticism of certain groups like homosexuality, Islam or whoever, no matter how true it is. If you read the first Amendment passing such a law would also violate one of our fundamental tenets. It would anger me and would makes me wonder, "what would our founding father do?".   

Freedom of speech is a principle. Speech in reality is heavily regulated, for the general cohesiveness of society. I could not, for example, declare that Al Jassas in a murdering raping tyrant. Were we to live in the same jurisdiction, I would rightfully face slander charges (Or possibly worse) Freedom of speech is the right to be wrong, not to do wrong. People forget that.

Originally posted by Al Jassas Then I salute you and have no problem with your stance although I do have an objection on how you portrayed the incident.   What I have a problem with is those people who think that they can make exception to a rule they profess and think they can get away with it.   You are either with free speach or you are against it. There is no limits.   It was from this point muslims and their supporters came in the cartoon incident and this incident. Britain has laws and these laws were applied. They denied a foreigner access and its their country but they still allowed the film to be screened in the parliament. There is nothing wrong here because they proved that all are under the same rules.   However in the rest of europe things are totally different. Jews, and sorry for not being PC, have special treatment. They can't be criticised, they can't be insulted in the same way the Dutch film insulted muslims and the holocaust is the sacred cow. If you dare say 5 999 999 jews died in the Nazi holocaust but not 6 million, you just signed the distruction of everything dear to you from your career to even your freedom (Germany, Austria and France jail those who question the official holocaust story even if they swear by everything that is holy that they believe the holocaust is true).   Al-Jassas

Yes I agree the world is full of hypocrisy and although I believe there was a holocaust if someone wants to preach there was not then that is their right or at least here. I know some NAZI groups in America who were preaching that but they were protected by the First Amendment. I have encountered Communist groups at my old college and while I do not agree with their message they were protected; as long as they do not preach overthrowing our government and constitution.

I was surprised to see Martha Steward on that list!! Poor Martha- LOL


Edited by eaglecap - 12-Feb-2009 at 21:28

Does Fitna explicitly incite violence?

Originally posted by Sparten Regi, democracy by its nature means that "  a potentially violent mob can threaten a democratically elected party into a particular course of action".

In a working democracy the potentially violent mob, or the people to use a nicer word, elects their government through voting, then the government must be allowed to sit its term and carry out its policies. If the people are displeased they have to wait until the next election and vote for someone else. To overrule this practice with violence is an act of totalitarianism.

Not all of us agree on his right to speak on this topic and one such article is here:

I do not agree with him that the Koran should be banned but that is his opinion and sadly it is assuming that all Muslims would take it to such an extreme; some do and some do not. It varies just like Christianity or any religion. I still condemn Britian for its lack of courage.

His view:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1141622/Dutch-MP-arrives-Heathrow-booted-Britain-anti-Islam-film.html

BILLIONAIRE CULT LEADER Reverend Sun Myung Moon, 89
I did not know he was banned from the UK but I can see why. The moonies!! I wish they would ban his entry into the USA- LOL kidding!!