'special relationship' rejuvenated??

It's faults are always accentuated and for alot of good rational reasons. However, the more passionate a person can be in denouncing a system, the more blinded they are by their own biases, atleast... that is how i feel. So, what is the British legacy besides fractured countries, social-financial inequities & past memories of dependency & ethical abuse being among the more oft, but not only... numerously heard charges at shaming the country that had spawned the current entities that we currently know now as either commonwealth members or those who have disassociated themselves from it. It is one thing too point out all of it's endearing faults and what not, while forgetting to also counterbalance their emotions with more reasonable thought. It is a totally different thing too swim against the current tide of public condemnation, by pointing out the other p.o.v. in respect out of all fairness and decency, and without trying to add the jingoism from that era. I offer just a few, perhaps more of a sampling of the remains still used or possibly even enjoyed by the indigenous people once they were left alone to tend to their own internal problems by the Empire that was formerly known as the British:

The English Language, being the first language of 300+ million people with it being the secondary language of 400+ million around the world. (Whether an individual disagrees with, hate or looks down upon the language or not, is i think... irrelevant! I am after all greatly enjoying reading or discussing opinions with people from around the world, that i might not otherwise have had the chance to do so with.)

The Parlimentary system of Government with common law for their legal system in the former colonies.

Rugby, cricket, football - (Soccer for us here in the US), golf and lawn tennis are all ball games left behind after the British Empire.

In some countries like India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and some other countries surrounding them in their respective regions, including the Caribbean & ect... there is that peculiarly odd phenomena to most of us here in this world... I offer by mentioning the driving on the left side of the road.

Also, in the effects during and even thereafter...  of the Empire, there was a constantly consistent migration of millions of people either to or from the UK that still continues to this very day.

Also for all the anglophiles/phobics out there, we can't forget atleast two of the most world famous citizens from their respective countries who played very important roles in freeing their countries from the Empire or from the inherent racism that so effected their countries, while strangely still feeling some warm affections somewhere deep down in their psyches for this entity that had shaped the private lives. In fact... the reverence that the world holds for them borders near the line of Sainthood, that if there was any possible way to anoint the first of groups for secular sainthood, then these gentlemen probably would have been among the first to have been anointed so. Also, bare in mind, that this is an era in which it was a common misunderstood among many empires in the world, to not even bother with educating even one single indigenous person.

The first that comes to my mind is the often revered worldwide (Even on this board) Mr. Gandhi, who after all, was trained as a lawyer in all places... a college in London. One imagines what might have happened to India if racism in the colonies was non-existent to the point that Mr. Gandhi might have spent the rest of his life working as an anonymous lawyer in some British colony til the day he died. I can only imagine tiny little fractured states that would still be a big old bloody mess even now.

Then there is Nelson Mandela also himself was lawyer and influenced fro a while by the above, is a product of the oft reviled Empire, whom it should not be forgotten... was himself taught by the English Wesleyan missonaries and subsequently attended a college that was funded by the same group. If not for the racism before and then the subsequent impositon of apartheid by the Afrikaner party, he himself may have languished in some anonymous law firm working either for private hire or for the state.

Just some thoughts for everyone too consider.

Panther

Note: My source is mainly Wikipedia, but the information in where they have gotten their info from seems to be reasonably balanced with both pros and cons of the British Empire.


Edited by Panther - 14-Feb-2009 at 23:38

Originally posted by es_bih Originally posted by nuvolari I have been called an "Imperialist" in this forum and I have no problem with that.   In order NOT to unduly inflame others, though, I won't go so far as to say that I believe the British Empire was the best thing that has ever happened to this World (although I do believe that it was ! ), I will merely say that others should examine closely the state of many of the countries that previously were a part of that Empire (notably, of course, all of the ex Empire African countries ).  If there remains even one today that is remotely anwhere near the state of good health and civil stability that it was whilst a part of the Empire, then I'm a monkey's Uncle ! Actually almost all of them are in total crap mostly due to the British, like the British came in good will , you must smoke some powerful stuff to come here and believe that asinine garbage. . The British stole enough from Africa to repay them for generations to come, but hey... after all the guy with the wildest imagination in the world thinks otherwise so it must be true... if you believe hard enough that is.

Stabilizing? Your Empire created these ongoing problems. Same with Pakistan and India and the Palestinian and Israeli conflict. Yup a mod with an opinion, just taking advantage of my natural right to speak ;).

[QUOTE=es_bih]Stabilizing? Your Empire created these ongoing problems. Same with Pakistan and India and the Palestinian and Israeli conflict. Yup a mod with an opinion, just taking advantage of my natural right to speak ;).


[/QUOT

Probably not disagreeing with you in essence.

Must have realised he was fulminating again but I finished too quickly!!!

Trouble with Beylerbeyi his mindset and thinking seem to be 30-40 years behind the times. He also seems blind to the realities of what is really going on in the world. Seems to adopt Mugabe's theme of blaming everyone else except himself for the mess.

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Bah, smarter people than you have tried that line in the past. By all means, remind this to me if I justify Turkish invasion of Mexico with tales of Ottoman benevolence. If you can't do that you are just a slimy liar, dropping allegations like this.

Then, by your own standards, you have named yourself a slimy liar (and a hypocrite). See:

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi Originally posted by Edgewaters A knee-jerk response. I'm not 'siding' with anyone. You just presume I am because my views on the events that happened don't agree with your imperialist Soviet revisionism. I haven't made any moral/ethical judgement about decolonization or the lack thereof. You have obviously sided with the imperialist guy. He wrote that Britain had the intention to let go of the colonies (your words) and decolonisation was bad for the subject peoples ... that's bloody well siding with the imperialists, typical behaviour of those who used to be called social-fascist in the past.

You couldn't actually point out where I said British imperialism was a good thing, you could only froth about "social-fascists". Intuition is no substitute for empirical facts, and petty equivocations do not convince the intelligent no matter how skilled at tergiversation you may be.  

If you can't apply the same standards you judge others with to yourself, then don't expect anyone with a brain to buy what you're peddling. I would be most surprised if anyone came to your defence here.

It is no coincidence that the greatest fans of the British Empire are the ones who think the US is saving the world today.

No, it is not coincidence at all. It is an imagination brought to us by the magic of pseudocommunist intuition.

Edited by edgewaters - 18-Feb-2009 at 14:56

Just a couple of comments:

Expansion can take many forms, it doesn't have to be done by force. Throughout history you will find examples of less developed civilizations assimilating influences from more advanced ones without the need for the latter to conquer the former.