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sanj View Drop Down
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Posts: 2 		  Quote sanj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kalmyks
    Posted: 06-Apr-2010 at 15:43

http://khamagmongol.com/chuulgan/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11

kalmyk history of 20 c.
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Posts: 13 		  Quote man2rk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 16:04
in most of the places of central asia the turkic speaking people call all mongolian speaking people as Qalmaq/Kalmak, I think that's something to do with the name of   Kalmyks.

Edited by man2rk - 28-Feb-2009 at 16:05
History is something that victors write on the back of losers.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2009 at 15:16
Hello my brootherhoods! We don`t need to argue this. We are all is the Hun`s descendant. We just separate very long time. Now we have chance to unite again. Turkic, Mongols all is together. Central Asia was the U.S.. For our great country that we should come together.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2008 at 00:23

Manas epic may be quite old of course, but it includes references to real tribes and places. The epic mixed the memories of different historic periods. For example, the main enemies of Kyrgyzs in the epic besides Kalmyks are Khitans.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 22:48
Originally posted by Sarmat

It's also meaningful that Kyrgyz herois epic "Manas" is mainly about the fight with Jungars.


really? i thought the Manas epic is much older even than the Secret Hsitory of Mongols and no specific tribes are mentioned and the persons in it didn't really existed.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 19:41
Originally posted by calvo

Do the modern Kalmyks still hold a grudge against Kazakhs and Kirgiz for past massacres? Or is the affair all forgotten?
 
Hard to say. I guess they are "even" if one can say so; since before the massacres in the 18th century, Oirats i.e. Kalmyks/Jungars were literally terrorizing Kirgizs and Kazakhs. Jungar invasion is considered the most hardest perios of Kazakh history ever and called the "years of great sorrow." It's also meaningful that Kyrgyz herois epic "Manas" is mainly about the fight with Jungars.
 
Recently, if I remember correctly, there were some celebrations in Kazakhstan with regard to the victory over Kalmyk expedition back to Jungaria that created hard feelings among Kalmyks. Kalmyks were also very dissapointed with the recent Kazakh epic movie "Nomad," calling it a "fantazy." However, generally speaking the relations between the 3 people are fine. A lot of Kazakhs and Kalmyks I met talk about close mentality.
 
 
Originally posted by calvo

Another intriguing question is how the steppe people peceived the concept of "nationhood". Most of the peoples, Kazakhs, Kirgiz, Oriats, and Kalmyks were all tribal federations with no centralised government. How could a Kazakh identify a fellow kazakh tribe from a Kirgiz?
 
Very easy. Kyrgyz customs and language especially medieval Kyrgyz were notably different from Kazakhs' ones. Also Kyrgyzs tribes were not part the Kazakhs' 3 hordes confederations. So, there were no big problems with differentiating between them.
 
Originally posted by calvo

The Kalmyks, being Buddhist and speaking Mongolian language, obviously stood out among a sea of Muslim Turks, but how was the difference between Kalmyks and other Mongol nations perceived?
 
Again, language and some customs are close but different. Oirat tribal union historically also had a long history of struggle with Khalkha Mongols. Also, some scholars would say that Oirat/Kalmyks absorbed more Turkic influences than Khalkha
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 19:21
Confused  I'm confused as well; both "Reestrovoe" and "Nizovoe" Voisko were designations for registered Zaporozhian Cossacks. The sources which they refer to seem to talk about the same subject as well. So, I'm not quite sure what they meant.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 20:41
Originally posted by Sarmat

Thanks. Yes. I know this site. As you can see, when you click on the link about Kalmyks it doesn't give you any additional information. I believe they also just confused the information about the later Kalmyk Don Cossacks and Kalmytskoe (Irregular cavalry) Voisko.


well, it is called Stavropol Kalmyk Voisko. as far as i know Stavropol is different from the Kalmyk province in Russia, maybe that's the difference? i guess those Kalmyks from Stavropol then received their Voisko but other Kalmyks not.

btw do you know why they listed the Zaporozhian Voisko twice?


Edited by Temujin - 21-Dec-2008 at 20:47
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 20:26
Do the modern Kalmyks still hold a grudge against Kazakhs and Kirgiz for past massacres? Or is the affair all forgotten?
 
Another intriguing question is how the steppe people peceived the concept of "nationhood". Most of the peoples, Kazakhs, Kirgiz, Oriats, and Kalmyks were all tribal federations with no centralised government. How could a Kazakh identify a fellow kazakh tribe from a Kirgiz?
The Kalmyks, being Buddhist and speaking Mongolian language, obviously stood out among a sea of Muslim Turks, but how was the difference between Kalmyks and other Mongol nations perceived?
 
 
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 23:16
Thanks. Yes. I know this site. As you can see, when you click on the link about Kalmyks it doesn't give you any additional information. I believe they also just confused the information about the later Kalmyk Don Cossacks and Kalmytskoe (Irregular cavalry) Voisko.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 20:12
http://www.cossackdom.com/troopsr.html
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 17:52
Give me the link please.
 
As I said, before the special Kalmyk district was created within Don Cossack Voisko they had been called Kalmyk Voisko (and were a part of Russian irregular cavalry units which also included Kazakh, Bashkir and Cossack units), but never Kalmyk Cossack Voisko.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 17:19
they were one of the Cossack Voiskos for a time, i got that from a Russian-Ukrainian site.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 20:40
The Kalmyks formation were just called Kalmyk (irregular) Voisko. They didn't have title "Cossack" until after they joined Don Cossack Voisko as a special district.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 20:24
Originally posted by Sarmat

Kalmyks didn't have their own Cossack Voisko.
 
Kalmyk Cossacks were a part of Don Cossack Voisko and for some time lived in distinctive Kalmyk stanitsas.


yes of course they did, most popularly during Napoleonic Wars, also Bashkirs had their own Cossack Voisko as well as Crimean Tatars.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 17:51
Yeah, I also forgot to mention that according to some historians, the leave of Kalmyks to Jungaria ("the flight of Kalmyks" as it's known in the Russian history) was one of the triggers of Pugachev's rebellion. Yaik Cossacks were ordered to chase the Kalmyks and many of them refused to comply which resulted in riots.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 17:48
Kalmyks didn't have their own Cossack Voisko.
 
Kalmyk Cossacks were a part of Don Cossack Voisko and for some time lived in distinctive Kalmyk stanitsas.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 17:22
Originally posted by calvo

What are the Kalmyks' relation to other Cossacks?
 


i'm not sure by what you mean here? there's two possibilities: individual Kalmyks joining Cossack communities or the Kalmyks militarically organized as their own Cossack Voisko by Imperial Russia. so are you talking about the first or the second?


Edited by Temujin - 17-Dec-2008 at 17:22
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 05:02
Originally posted by calvo

Why would the Kazakhs massacre the Kalmyks on their way back to Dzungaria?
 
Because for the previous 200 years Jungars were the most bitter enemies of Kazakhs that almost destroyed them. Not to say that at that time Kazakhs were at war with almost all of their neighbors.
 
Originally posted by calvo

If the area was so sparsely populated anyway, it certainly wouldn't do much damage to Kazakh livelihood.
 
The point is that they had to cross through the Kazakh steppe before getting to the devastated Jungar steppe. In fact the Jungar steppe later became populated by Kazakhs as well and they even reached the lands of Khalkha Mongols eventually.
 
 
Originally posted by calvo

What are the Kalmyks' relation to other Cossacks? Do they feel identified with them? How do the Slavic Cossack perceive the Kalmyks?
 
Not all Kalmyks are Cossacks, only a part of them. But Russian Cossacks perceive Kalmyk Cossacks as their Cossack brother, the same relates to other Cossacks as well including Ukrainian Cossacks of Kuban, Bashkir and Tatar Cossacks.
 
Generally speaking Kalmyks are regarded with respect among Cossacks.
 
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 23:40
Why would the Kazakhs massacre the Kalmyks on their way back to Dzungaria?
If the area was so sparsely populated anyway, it certainly wouldn't do much damage to Kazakh livelihood.
 
What are the Kalmyks' relation to other Cossacks? Do they feel identified with them? How do the Slavic Cossack perceive the Kalmyks?
 
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