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How come europeans don't do american football?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How come europeans don't do american football?
    Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 20:42
Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, and Germany, too from what I have seen. Greece as well has been producing good players. I actually like watching some of the European leagues. I watch the Bosnian league from time to time, too. 
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 20:50
Former Yugoslavia has indeed spawned some of the best basketball national teamsin europe. In Greece basketball lost much of it status after the Fiba-Uleb thing

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:13
How come you guys don't play football/soccer? Same difference - not inherent superiority between the games: just cultural diversity
Actually many kids here have played soccer for along time. I did, it's just as the kids get older they move onto other sports. I moved onto Baseball afterwards.
 
 
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:14
Football was always the workingmans sport. Some of the original sides, such as Woolwich Arsenal (The predecessors of todays Arsenal FC) were formed from workers in the royal arsenal in London. Manchester United was originally formed from railway workers (The main manchester line runs through modern Old Trafford. Liverpool was the team of Irish immigrants and local working class boys and Celtic in Glasgow was founded by Irish catholic immigrants. Mass participation in sport was a hallmark of the late industrial revolution (Late 1880s onwards) and a product of the working classes. Sports like rugby were the middle upper class games, with the sport being named after a public school (British public schools are private) of the same name.

In Ireland, the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association) had its rule done up by a Protestant (Maurice Davan I think) but it became the sport of the catholic farmer. Also became a breeding ground for nationalism, republicanism, the IRB and later the IRA. Most of our flying columns came from whole GAA teams - and the captains invariably were the commanding officers in our formations.

So, a little rant, but important I think to emphasis the class dynamics which have always been persistant in sport... (Even modern day basketball in America, who recruit from crummy black neighbourhoods, where the best talent invariably lies)
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:17
Originally posted by es_bih

Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, and Germany, 


not Germany, that would be handball i suppose.
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:17
Originally posted by Parnell

So, a little rant, but important I think to emphasis the class dynamics which have always been persistant in sport... (Even modern day basketball in America, who recruit from crummy black neighbourhoods, where the best talent invariably lies)

Sure, but how did American football - originally the game of elite Yale and Princeton students - become a popular working-class sport in the US? That's what I can't wrap my head around.

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  Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:21
Originally posted by Frederick Roger

For football (soccer), rugby and basketball all you need is the ball itself, no other apparel (it should be noticed that I don't believe cricket is that popular ouside the U.K. as well, probably for the same reasons). Once you start playing as a kid, there's not much turning to other sports.


Cricket isn't at all popular in Scotland or Ireland either. Oh, there are teams and leagues but they mostly consist of English and other expatriates.

What is called American Football looks really idiotic to most Europeans, as has been said, there's all that armour they wear, the very frequent breaks in the action (action??) and all the bloody prancing about when someone gets a "touchdown" (without actually grounding the ball).

I grew up playing Shinty and Rugby, but we played fitba (demotic Scots for football) for fun. All that was needed was, as somebody said a ball, some bodies and some goalposts (usually piles of jackets).
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:38
Ireland isn't in the UK...

But yes, there is an Irish cricket team, and we beat Pakistan last year! Though, thats about all I actually know about them.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 21:52
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by es_bih

Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, and Germany, 


not Germany, that would be handball i suppose.

O yeah I forgot about handball, but its near up there.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 22:49
Originally posted by Fredrick Roger

I don't believe cricket is that popular ouside the U.K.


The Cricket world cup is one of the biggest sporting events in the world. Like, its TV audiences rival the Olympics, and the soccer world cup. The ICC (International Cricket Council) isn't even located in the UK.
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 23:16
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Fredrick Roger

I don't believe cricket is that popular ouside the U.K.


The Cricket world cup is one of the biggest sporting events in the world. Like, its TV audiences rival the Olympics, and the soccer world cup. The ICC (International Cricket Council) isn't even located in the UK.
 
I was refering to Europe only. Tongue I'm pretty well aware of the cricket frenzy in Asia. 
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 23:21
Considering myself a football guru allow me to address some of the major points brought up.

Because football alludes to just that foot and ball. Thus football being what is here called soccer. Plus it is much more intense and personal. No time outs every fifteen seconds, two 45 minute halves, no pampering.


As i've stated in previous threads the game is called football because Rugby, Gridiron and Association (Soccer) football all were once the same game, sports evolution has appeared to have occurred.

More intense and personal? I'm sure you're talking about the hooligan fans that set fire to their own stadiums. I can assure you that football has just as heated rivalries as soccer, just go to a Michigan/Ohio State game and you'll see what I mean.

Also although there are stoppages to play, these are meant to keep the game interesting, because I'm sure you've seen a soccer match where one team goes up three-nil in the first half and then the entire second half is a boring game of keep away, this is the reason gridiron has a play clock so you have to attempt to move the ball forward.

There is the NFL Europe league.


NFL Europe is now disbanded. Although as I understand it there is a national league in Germany as well as a few Scandanavian/Baltic nations.

Why the United States don't like British football (soccer)?


I believe it is because there are a few things soccer has that are an anathema to American psyche. Such as there is no show of strength, soccer is a game of finesse and skill, whereas American sports are about power and muscle. Also in soccer ties are commonplace, this goes against the American ideal of in every competition there is a clear winner and a clear loser, you're either right or wrong there is no middle way. Finally as i've stated before there is a lot of "dead time" in soccer, when your ahead you try to shut the game down. This doesn't happen in basketball, baseball or gridiron and it's why even hockey doesn't do as well in the US.

Now, with respect to the question, I believe people all over the world like RUGBY besides soccer.


Actually Pinguin to most Americans Rugby is an even bigger mystery than soccer, mostly because nearly everyone played soccer when they were younger and hardly anyone played rugby. There's a reason the US has the MLS and no Pro rugby league.

You ever see a soccer player tackled?


YES!

I've played Gridiron at school. With no pads but, wearing that much armour is considered just a tad* sissy.


You know in the beginnings of football they wore no pads as well, luckily for the health of football players now they realized that it was just idiotic to subject themselves to such horrific injuries.

Because we all know how manly it is to be paralyzed from the waist down.*

*Yes I know you were joking Omar, i'm just proving a point.

Most people I've talked to regarding american sports seem too find American Football and Baseball to complicated and methodic to get any enjoyment out of it. They seem to believe there is a lot of tactic and force rather than inspiration and talent involved in it (which I'm sure is not entirely true). 


Exactly this is a major point why Soccer has seemingly monopolized the world. All the rules you'd ever need to know about soccer can fit into one paragraph, for Gridiron you need a dictionary sized book to explain all the procedures and what not. In fact not even the athletes themselves sometimes know all the rules, even in the pros.

Another explanation, besides lack of publicy for thee sports (other than Hollywood), and very likely, in my view, is the lack of equipment for younger children to practice. For football (soccer), rugby and basketball all you need is the ball itself, no other apparel (it should be noticed that I don't believe cricket is that popular ouside the U.K. as well, probably for the same reasons). Once you start playing as a kid, there's not much turning to other sports. 


This is also why many colleges in the US do not sponsor football, because it is too expensive.*

*Also there are NCAA rules that state the number of men's sports cannot exceed the number of women's sports, and since there isn't that large a market for women's football that usually gets taken out of the sports programs.

American Football is tedious to watch because of the frequent break-offs each time someone gets ganged up on, which is like every 2 seconds.


As opposed to waiting 90 minutes for someone to score ONCE!

guy like Manning gets 10s of millions of dollars for just throwing the ball.


Well then you'd be amazed to find out that a guy who does the same thing in baseball (CC Sabbathia) gets paid hundreds of millions of dollars to "just throw a ball".....and there's no height requirement on that.

gorillas play american football,gentle people watch; gentle players play soccer,gorillas watch it.


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Because american football is crap. And its not football. 'soccer' is football, and always will be!


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Oakland Raiders vs Tampa Bay Bucaneers, can't even remember how long ago.


The game was at the end of the 2002-2003 season. Man Temujin it has been a while.

I do have some itnerest in American football and yes there's a small league here though it will never become as popular as "real" football becuase football here dominates all sports.


Temujin, is there a German league team you support, or an NFL team that you support?

As far as cheerleaders they're there for adolescents with their first... you know what.


You're telling me you wouldn't enjoy seeing this at your team's soccer game?



(sorry, i just cannot bring myself to use the s*****r word!!!Ouch)


It's okay just say football and use gridiron to refer to the American sport.

That American football ever became popular in the US is something of a mystery to me - from what I understand, it was initially a game played by students at Yale and Princeton, not exactly a working-class sport, and you would think that therefore, its popularity seems unlikely in the US. But no! So I wonder.


Football's main popularity though began in the midwest, which is why outside of the Ivy League there isn't a strong college football prescense in New England. Also remember college football predates basketball, and baseball was never really a college game. So for a while football was the only sports outlet for inter-school rivalries to take place and this is really what propelled the sport. Plus college deans approved of the sport since it came from Academia so it had prestige that went along with it.

just the numerous breaks and time outs are a bit much.


Well a lot of those breaks are arbitrary, as NFL and I believe the NCAA have "television timeouts" to allow networks to broadcast commercials for additional revenue. Realistically there shouldn't be as many stoppages, I'd recommend you go to a non-televised college game or a high school game to get a feel for how much stoppage there is supposed to be.


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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2008 at 23:27
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Originally posted by es_bih

 It is much more intense and personal.
 
LOL You ever see a soccer player tackled?
You ever saw a european football player who's thigh is riped up by an opponent's football shoes? When you can look inside the thigh up to the bone? so if you like brutallity, you can find it in football too.Tongue
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 00:03
Yeah? well football the players don't just get their hips ripped open, they get things like their lungs torn out through their nose  


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 00:09
And their eyes gouged out with with pitchforks

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  Quote Kaysaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 00:10
I think my biggest pet peeve about American Football is that you get certain bright individuals who feel macho wearing their pads and grabbing other men around the waist who then turn around and feel that they're too macho to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle

Edited by Kaysaar - 16-Dec-2008 at 00:11
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 00:12
What does that have to do with the game?


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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 00:25
Originally posted by beorna

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Originally posted by es_bih

 It is much more intense and personal.
 
LOL You ever see a soccer player tackled?
You ever saw a european football player who's thigh is riped up by an opponent's football shoes? When you can look inside the thigh up to the bone? so if you like brutallity, you can find it in football too.Tongue

I don't know if brutality is the best measure of a sport. If it is, there are many that surpass both American and European football.

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  Quote Kaysaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 01:09
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

What does that have to do with the game?


It shows a certain aspect of the mindset behind many football players - the misguided idea that that the invincibility and prowess on the field translates into the rest of their lives. It's something that I've seen in most of the football players I've ever known.

As for the game, I find it tedious due to all the stopping. I also find it abhorrent that 150+kg men call themselves fit athletes, when you can see their stomach fat hanging out beneath their pads. I also find it obnoxious that many of the same people who condemn steroid use in baseball seem to overlook it the NFL. Every once in a while there's a very fast paced and entertaining game - but most of the time I just can't stand it.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 01:26

It shows a certain aspect of the mindset behind many football players - the misguided idea that that the invincibility and prowess on the field translates into the rest of their lives.


I don't think football is the only sport that has that idea.


As for the game, I find it tedious due to all the stopping.


The stops are there to make sure the game isn't tedious. I mean in soccer a good strategy when you have the lead is to kick the ball sideways and backwards. You don't see too many lateral passes going on in American football when a team has the lead, in American football you are always advancing forward.

I also find it abhorrent that 150+kg men call themselves fit athletes, when you can see their stomach fat hanging out beneath their pads.


Ever heard of Sumo Wrestlers, and of how they are some of the healthiest people on the planet? The fat is there because the muscles are so large that the fat has nowhere else to go. Have you ever seen those MetRx Strongest Man competitions, I don't recall many of them being particularly svelte.

I also find it obnoxious that many of the same people who condemn steroid use in baseball seem to overlook it the NFL.


Actually it's not overlooked, the NFL has the oldest and most strict drug abuse policy in professional sports. In fact a new rule was passed where a playing caught using a banned substance cannot get elected to the pro bowl. So trust me the NFL does not condone steroid use in any way.
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