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SCIENCE AND MEDICINE CAME FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE.

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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SCIENCE AND MEDICINE CAME FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE.
    Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 04:58
The first sceintific constants ['equations']:
 
That the universe is finite - it had a 'BEGINNING' [Opening verse in Genesis].
 
It is followed by The Law of Entropy in the 2nd verse [formless to formed].
 
That Light was a primodial factor, and a triggering of all primodial events.
 
That the universe was created from nothing - namely, that at one time no tools or elements existed, including matter, space, energy, time, energy, or anything contained in this 'finite' universe. Scientifically and logically, there is no alternative to the ex-nehilo factor, nor of creationism and monotheism, which stands today with state of art science, al biet with hot debate, but with no evidenced alternatives.
 
That life occured via anticipated constructive pre-actions and conditions  [the seperation of waters and land, light & darkness, day & night, etc/Genesis]
 
That all constructs in the universe are based on positive/negative forces, minumum of two factors, and that technically, ONE [a singularity] does not exist in the universe.
 
That all life origins bagan as dual-gendered, then became seperated ['Male and female created he them'/Genesis].
 
That all life repro and its continuance comes from a program embedded in the 'seed' factor, including skeketal and dna transmissions.
 
That the human and female human is the last life form.
 
That Humans are a different species ['kind'] from the animal species, by the consequence of speech, an exclusive human attribute not reliant on or derivitive to biological imprints of other life forms.
 
Evolution - its first introduction in all recorded history, namely the chronological, graduated emergence of life forms, listed as derived from sub-atomic particles and elements ['dust' in ancient biblespeak], thereafter via vegetation [standing upright and earth held shrubs], water-born [fish - including virus and bacteria - 'swarms'], air born [fowl],  transit mammals [including creepy crawley insects], land born animals, humans. The variance with Darwin is with Humans being a seperate kind; that speciation is limited to its kind, as opposed to all life from the one kind; and that the seed factor, as opposed to millions year old predating retrovirus accumulations, processed this speciation. Still, although some variances, Evolution was introduced in genesis.
 
Zodiac & Cosmology. That the galaxies [stars and moons] would enable signs [astronomy] and omens [astrology] for mankind.
 
That Mankind is the most superior species, and bidden and able to conquer the universe components and space bodies [Have dominion over all the worlds/Genesis].
 
That humans will live by laws, and be tested and measured by these throughout their lifespans.
 
That humans, unlike all other life forms, will be tested [tempted, challenged] via impacting, emotional and mental measures by these laws [as with adam and eve and the fruit].
 
That mankind's prowess and failures will be derived via laws.
 
That the entire universe is sustained by majestic, intergrated laws [that universal laws/equations such as gravity, the transcendent velosity of light, etc underlie all the univesal engineerings]
 
That there is no random occurences [an intergration negates a random].
 
That unlike all other life forms, humans must earn and cater for their sustainence [sweat of thy brow, tilling of unyielding lands, etc].
 
That free choice is unique to humans, and also limited by moral/ethical/judiciary laws.
 
That right & wrong applies only to humans [animals cannot sin, owing to their lack of choice factors]
 
 
MEDICINE.
 
This is a primal faculty of science, and introduced in the Hebrew bible, with the first seperation of medicine from occultism. The first recording of a malignancy, contagious and infectious bacteria, and viral transmission, refers to Leprosy, both its curable and incurable versions. The listing if its ID, treatments and quarantine are given for the first time, ushering the advent of medicine, from what was then seen as occultism, spells and curses, whereby the victims were destroyed.
 
Time. The world's most accurate calendar, as well as the oldest [5767 years], with the introduction of the 'day' and 'week', come from the Hebrew bible. This calendar is based on both the lunar and solar movements which impact the earth, enabling the forcasting of a sunset a 100K years in the future, and catering to other laws which are based on harvest periods, ushering in an advanced form of agriculture.
 
Definition of Infinity. The hebrew bible, which introduced the concept of finitity, is also the only source which describes and defines infinity. Infinity is not everlasting, but that which is not subject to 'change' ['I am the Lord I have not changed']. Thus anything subject to change cannot be infinite - whatever changes anything, is transcendent of that what it changes. Thus there is nothing in the universe which can be infinite, because nothing can be said to be un-changing. Everlasting is a subjective term, and is not measurable, because we cannot remain viable to examine an everlasting period.
 
Anniversaries. The annual anniversary is only correct when based on the Hebrew solar/lunar calendar. A true annual anniversary commemorence means that if one stands at X point at a certain time of the day, for example, and the sun is at 12 O'clock high - then the sun will again be at 12 o'clock high at point X one year thereafter. Thus the Gregorian mode of an anniversary, such as New year and Christmas, for example, do not represent a true annual anniverary of an earthly rotation and revolvution.
 
The Non-Flat earth. By examining the criteria of the Hebrew calendar, which is based on the movements of the earth in relation to the surrounding space bodies and stars - there is no alternative but to conclude the earth is a moving 'SPHEARE' - thus not flat. Thus the Hebrew bible pointedly does not mention the earth as flat - an eronous notion stemming from the greek philosophy.
 
CREATIONISM & MONOTHEISM. That a complexity must have a transcendent complex foundation [Creationism], and that ultimately the buck stops at ONE  [Monotheism] - are  scientific premises without alternatives - scientifically based on the premise of a Finite universe. Creationism & Monotheism were introduced in the Hebrew bible.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Moses - the First Zionist.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 13:36
I think the most accurate calendar in the world is the Persian solar calendar with years of 365.24219858156 days, it has only 1-minute error every 92 years just because some milliseconds which are ignored.

The starting time of Persian New Year of this year: Tehran Thursday, March 20 9:18 AM, other places: http://www.imagemosaic.com/1387/2008/02/the_starting_time_of_persian_n_1.html
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 13:54
Persian solar calendar with years of 365.24219858156 days, it has only 1-minute error every 92 years just because some milliseconds which are ignored. 
 
I don't know much about this calendar, however, a solar only calendar is a deficient one, and only accounts for annual accountings, not seasonal accounting. Also, one minute per 92 years is too much and outside the accepted accuracy level.
 
It is surprising a Persian one would not have a similar lunar/solar calendar: pre-Islamic Persia was an ally of Israel, and assisted the Jews return to their homeland after the Babylon invasion [Book of Esther]. The Lunar accounting is imperative.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 15:04
one minute per 92 years is too much and outside the accepted accuracy level.
 
But it is certainly better than the Hebrew lunisolar calendar which has more than 6 minutes error per 1 year:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

The Hebrew calendar mean year is 365.2468 days long, or 365 days, 5 hours 55 minutes, and 25+25/57 seconds (the molad/monthly interval × 235 months per 19-year cycle ÷ 19 years per cycle). As the present-era mean northward equinoctial year is about 365 days 5 hours 49 minutes and zero seconds long, the Hebrew calendar mean year is about 6 minutes and 25+25/57 seconds longer than the modern fixed solar year. This amounts to approximately one day in every 224 years.

It is surprising a Persian one would not have a similar lunar/solar calendar: pre-Islamic Persia was an ally of Israel, and assisted the Jews return to their homeland after the Babylon invasion [Book of Esther]. The Lunar accounting is imperative.
I don't think these things relate to each other, Persian Calender could be even older than the Hebrew Calnder.
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  Quote Aurorum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 05:59
Originally posted by IamJosep

That the human and female human is the last life form.

What? Craig Venter recently created a "life-form". Craig Venter produced synthetic life.
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That Humans are a different species ['kind'] from the animal species, by the consequence of speech, an exclusive human attribute not reliant on or derivitive to biological imprints of other life forms.


Many other species communicate through noise -- singing whales, signing apes, and spelling-bees. I'm not quite so certain concerning the spelling-bees.

Originally posted by IamJosep

That humans, unlike all other life forms, will be tested [tempted, challenged] via impacting, emotional and mental measures by these laws [as with adam and eve and the fruit].


I am tested by the Chiquita banana lady every day.
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That there is no random occurences [an intergration negates a random].


Confused & Cry

Originally posted by IamJosep

That unlike all other life forms, humans must earn and cater for their sustainence [sweat of thy brow, tilling of unyielding lands, etc].


Well, I guess prey simply falls into the mouths of predators.
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That free choice is unique to humans, and also limited by moral/ethical/judiciary laws.

What does that yet propose?! That statement does not have any substance! Gah!
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That right & wrong applies only to humans [animals cannot sin, owing to their lack of choice factors]

This relates to Science _HOW_?

'Tis but burning vales of religious nonsense. I ask that you continue to stretch your text as thinly as possible; in an amusing attempt to blanket what little we know about reality with a silly dogma. Woof! Religious texts are so bloody vague: Those creamy adaptable memes!
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 12:15
What? Craig Venter recently created a "life-form". Craig Venter produced synthetic life.
 
No contest. This can even become a more developed future scenario. However, these are subsequent factors based on emulation of an already manifest process, as opposed being created or naturally emerging life forms.
 
Many other species communicate through noise -- singing whales, signing apes, and spelling-bees. I'm not quite so certain concerning the spelling-bees.
 
 
No contest. Even non-animate matter can be said to 'communicate', thus I used the term, 'speech', which is unique to one life form by the ratio of 1 to everything else in the known universe, and by time.
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That there is no random occurences [an intergration negates a random].


Confused & Cry
 
Two points:
 
The universe structures operate on an underlying process of complex maths & physics - else we would not have equations & theories possible - they would be subject to non-constancies, namely we would not have 'science'. Here, an intelligence - for want of a more acceptable term, appears non-deniable;
 
Secondly, there is an intergration factor underlying these structures. This tells me, an accident cannot exist - because this would have long ago ceased the universe being what it is today - complex and constant. This does not refer to human or natural accidents such as plane crashes or tsunamis, which are factored in the equation, but accidents which would indicate there is no discenerable and manifest structurism in the universe. E.g., an accident or random factor would negate any constancy in the laws of gravity, and by subsequence the planets seen in their current modes.
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That free choice is unique to humans, and also limited by moral/ethical/judiciary laws.

What does that yet propose?! That statement does not have any substance! Gah!
 
Originally posted by IamJosep

That right & wrong applies only to humans [animals cannot sin, owing to their lack of choice factors]

This relates to Science _HOW_?
 
 
This means that an animal cannot be tried in a court for eating another animal ['Murder'], or for violating another animal [carnal knowledge]. The judiciary laws apply only to one unique life form. There is Gah! or there is a summation of what can be discerned.
Moses - the First Zionist.
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 12:28
Persian Calender could be even older than the Hebrew Calnder.
 
The Hebrew calendar is 5768 years old today, and lists historical events and datings, of which over 50% is vindicated by science and archeology. The Persian empire reached its zenith with its war with Greece, some 2600 years ago. At this time, the Israelites had already a past history [Babylon, Ancient Egypt, Phoenecia & Canaan], and recorded their Persian interaction in the book of Esther.
 
The factor of accuracy of a calendar must first prove its viability, and this is not possible without both the Lunar and Solar impacts upon the earth: how would you measure seasons, for example? Of course, there are older calendars, as the Israelite nation appeared relatively late in history, but it remains the oldest active calendar. I know that Persia is very old, but I am not aware of Persian history dating more than 3500 years, and will be appreciative to learn of this.
Moses - the First Zionist.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 12:51
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think the most accurate calendar in the world is the Persian solar calendar with years of 365.24219858156 days, it has only 1-minute error every 92 years just because some milliseconds which are ignored.
The starting time of Persian New Year of this year: Tehran Thursday, March 20 9:18 AM, other places: http://www.imagemosaic.com/1387/2008/02/the_starting_time_of_persian_n_1.html


I was born that day and around that time 9.30 AM if i'm not mistaken
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 20:36
well, if tribal god jehovah had been just a little more clear in expression, maybe the world could ignore all the western science made from 16 to 20 century... Tongue What you've done here is an me-too of "quranic science", also known as l'esprit de l'escalier of some frustrated muslims, angry against their god for not telling them all "hevean's science" in a more understandable form!
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 20:51
<<Here, an intelligence - for want of a more acceptable term, appears non-deniable>>
 
a free economy self-regulates the needs and best directs resources, with no need for rational plan or "inteligence"... With such a medieval theories about science and scientific explanation you waste the time of those interested in this topic! Please, go write on the religious section of the forum (any forum has or have to have such a menajerie!)... There is plenty of space where to worship your god
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 21:25

<<The Non-Flat earth. By examining the criteria of the Hebrew calendar, which is based on the movements of the earth in relation to the surrounding space bodies and stars - there is no alternative but to conclude the earth is a moving 'SPHEARE' - thus not flat. Thus the Hebrew bible pointedly does not mention the earth as flat - an eronous notion stemming from the greek philosophy.>>

My dear friend Iam Joseph, we are laughing copiously of your elucubrations! But please don't fail to tell your confabulations to the guys who wrote the "Oxford Dictionary of the Bible"!!! Poor of them, they are not aware of your great and authoritative conclusions! They need too humour...

Quotation:
"firmament - The division made by God, according to the P account of creation, to restrain the cosmic water and form the sky (Gen. 1: 6–8). Hebrew cosmology pictured a flat earth, over which was a dome-shaped firmament, supported above the earth by mountains, and surrounded by waters. Holes or sluices (windows, Gen. 7: 11) allowed the water to fall as rain. The firmament was the heavens in which God set the sun (Ps. 19: 4) and the stars (Gen. 1: 14) on the fourth day of the creation. There was more water under the earth (Gen. 1: 7) and during the Flood the two great oceans joined up and covered the earth; sheol was at the bottom of the earth (Isa. 14: 9; Num. 16: 30)." (How to cite this entry: "firmament", "Dictionary of the Bible", W. R. F. Browning, Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online.)

And another serious source that tells us the same thing:

"Judaism - History, Belief And Practice", Dan Cohn-Sherbok, Routledge 2003 (Routledge is an imprint of the Taylor & Francis Group), Part 1 (History), Chapter 2 (The Bible and Ancient Near Eastern civilization), p. 9-11:
 
"From what is known of the religion of the ancient Near East, we can see that the Bible reflects various aspects of Mesopotamian culture. The physical structure of the universe as outlined in Genesis parallels what is found in Near Eastern literature: the earth is conceived as a thin disk floating in the surrounding ocean; the heavens are a dome holding back the upper waters; under the earth is located the domain of the dead.
Like the gods of ancient literatures, the God of Israel is conceived anthropomorphically. As with other peoples, the Israelites accepted magical procedures (Exodus 7:9-12), recognized the power of blessings and curses (Numbers 22-24), and believed that God's will can be known through dreams, dice and oracles.
Further, as in other cultures, holy men, kings and priests were revered, and there was a preoccupation with ritual uncleanliness and purity as well as priestly rites.
In addition to these similarities, there are strong parallels between the Hebrew Bible and the literature of the ancient Near East. Genesis, for example, appears to borrow details from the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh in connection with the legend of the flood.
Biblical law bears a striking resemblance to ancient legal codes, in particular the Assyrian treaties between a king and his vassals which are very like the covenantal relationship between God and Israel. Yet despite such parallels, Israelite monotheism transformed these mythological features - themes retained in the Bible (such as the marriage of divine beings with women) are only briefly mentioned; Biblical heroes are not worshipped; nor is the underworld a subject for speculation.
The cult is free of rites to placate ghosts and demons, and there is no ancestor worship. Further, divination (such as investigating the livers of sacrificial animals) is forbidden. In essence, the Biblical narratives are simplified and demythologized. There are no myths of the birth of gods, their rivalries, sexual relations or accounts of death and resurrection. Moreover, there is no mention of fate to which both men and gods are subject. Rather, the Hebrew Bible concentrates on the moral condition of humankind within the context of divine providence.
Such demythologization is a particular feature of the Biblical narratives. According to modern scholarship, the priestly editors composed a creation account (Genesis 1-2:4) markedly different from the Babylonian narrative. In the Enuma Elish - a reworking of old Sumerian themes - the primordial powers Tiamat (salt water) and Apsu (sweet water) gave birth to a pair of forces which engendered other gods such as Anu (the god of heaven) and Ea (the god of running waters). Later Tiamat with her second husband and an army of gods and monsters attack the younger gods.
Marduk, the god of Babylonia, however slaughters Tiamat and from her corpse fashions the cosmos and from the blood of her consort Ea makes man.
Though there are echoes of this mythology in the Bible, Genesis decrees that God created the universe without any struggle against other gods. The entities created by God's fiat have no divine aspect. Further, the abyss (in Hebrew tehom which is etymologically related to Tiamat) simply refers to the original state of the universe after a primary substance - an unformed and watery chaos - came into existence. Turning to the flood story - a central element of Mesopotamian myth - the Bible ignores such details as the gods' terror at the cataclysms accompanying the flood. In the Epic of Gilgamesh the flood is seen as the god Enlil's remedy to reduce the level of human noise in the world. The Bible, however, proclaims that man's wickedness is its cause; and when the flood comes, God gives laws to restrain future human evil and promises that this devastation will never happen again. A comparison of texts from the Babylonian flood story and the Hebrew Bible forcefully illustrates the demythologizing intention of the Biblical authors:[…]"

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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 21:30

And yet another decent source on the same subject, from "The Early History Of Heaven", J. Edward Wright, Oxford University Press, 2000:

http://pages.videotron.com/rica/Iudaismul.Jurnal.Intim.htm#b93
http://pages.videotron.com/rica/Iudaismul.Jurnal.Intim.htm#b93
http://pages.videotron.com/rica/Iudaismul.Jurnal.Intim.htm#b93
http://pages.videotron.com/rica/Iudaismul.Jurnal.Intim.htm#b93

You shall not make for yourself an idol or an image of anything that is in heaven above, or on earth below, or in the water under the earth (Ex. 20:4). Where can I go from your spirit; where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there (Ps. 139:8).
This ancient Israelite image parallels that of their ancient Near Eastern neighbors as the following excerpt from the Babylonian myth about creation and the flood indicates.
 
When the gods like men                                                    The gods had clasped their hands together,
Bore the work and suffered the toil-                      Had cast lots and had divided.
The toil of the gods was great,                               Anu had gone up to heaven,
The work was heavy, the distress was much-                    [ . . . ] . . . the earth to his subjects.
The Seven great Anunnaki (gods)                                      [The bolt], the bar of the sea,
Were making the Igigi (gods) suffer the work.        [They had given] to Enki, the prince.
Anu, their father, was king;                                                [After Anu] had gone up to heaven
Their counsellor was the warrior Enlil;                   [And Enki] had gone down to the Apsu . . .
Their chamberlain was Ninurta;
and their sheriff Ennugi.
 
From this Babylonian text we learn that the gods divided the cosmos into heaven, earth, and netherworld, or "Apsu," the underworldly ocean.

Heaven—The Realm of the Gods and Celestial Bodies
Earth—The Realm of Humans and Nature
Netherworld—The Realm of Gods and the Dead
[…]
Phrases such as "Yahweh, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth" and related phrases for Yahweh as creator and almighty master of the cosmos have parallels in earlier Canaanite terminology for the god El. In fact, the Israelites did not create these phrases but inherited them from earlier Canaanite civilizations. Moreover, later editors of the Hebrew Bible used them to serve their particular monotheistic theology: their god is the supreme god, and he alone created the universe.
[…]
The Hebrew word samayim can be translated into English as either "heaven" (the realm of the gods) or "sky" (the atmosphere or celestial realm). The term samayim is related to the Akkadian term samu and has analogs in other Semitic languages as well. The term's origin is unclear, but one suggestion is that samayim may go back to the Akkadian phrase sa-me, "place of water." One text provides just such an etymology for the term: same sa-me mes "heaven, that which is of water."
[…]
The Israelites perceived that the heavenly realm is incomprehensibly vast (Isa. 40:12; Jer. 31:37) and high above the earth (Isa. 55:9; Ps. 103:11). It extends down to and is coterminous with the surface of the earth (Deut. 4:32, 30:4; Neh. 1:9; cf. Isa. 13:5), so when one arrives at the farthest reaches of the earth, one has arrived at the boundary of the heavens (Deut. 4:32, 30:4; cf. Jer. 49:36). The term "firmament" (raqia') denotes the atmosphere between the heavenly realm and the earth (Gen. 1:6-7, 20) where the celestial bodies move (Gen. 1:14-17). It can also be used as a synonym for "heaven" (Gen. 1:8; Ps. 19:2). This "firmament" (raqia') is part of the heavenly structure whether it is the equivalent of "heaven/sky" or is what separates it from the earth.
[…]
First is the idea that the heavenly realm was imagined as a vast cosmic canopy. The verb used to describe metaphorically how God stretched out this canopy over earth is natah ("stretch out," or "spread"). "I made the earth, and created humankind upon it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host (Isa. 45:12)." In the Bible this verb is used to describe the stretching out (pitching) of a tent. Since the texts that mention the stretching out of the sky are typically drawing on creation imagery, it seems that the figure intends to suggest that the heavens are Yahweh's cosmic tent. One can imagine ancient Israelites gazing up to the stars and comparing the canopy of the sky to the roofs of the tents under which they lived. In fact, if one were to look up at the ceiling of a dark tent with small holes in the roof during the daytime, the roof, with the sunlight shining through the holes, would look very much like the night sky with all its stars.
The second image of the material composition of the heavenly realm involves a firm substance. The term raqia', typically translated "firmament," indicates the expanse above the earth. The root means "stamp out" or "forge." The idea of a solid, forged surface fits well with Ezekiel I where God's throne rests upon the raqia'. According to Genesis I, the raqia' is the sphere of the celestial bodies (Gen. 1:6-8, 14-17; cf. ben Sira 43:8). It may be that some imagined the raqia' to be a firm substance on which the celestial bodies rode during their daily journeys across the sky.
Separating these terms into discrete images is not to deny the fact that the metaphors are mixed at times. Modern scholars look for slight differences in order to classify different images, yet it is likely that the ancient Israelites held these and other images together as part of a large complex of ideas about the heavenly realms.
[…]
Biblical Depictions of the Heavenly Realms
When humans look skyward, they see the floor of heaven, and this floor is composed of stone according to some Israelite images of the heavenly realm.
In Exodus 24:9-10 one reads that "Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up (to the top of Mt. Sinai). They saw the God of Israel and under his feet was an appearance like a lapis-lazuli (bluish) brick as clear as the sky itself." Furthermore, the prophet Ezekiel, in his description of the divine presence, mentioned that in his vision of God he saw "above the firmament which is over their (the cherubs) heads an appearance like a lapislazuli stone like a throne" (Ezek. 1:26; cf. 10:1). On this throne was seated "the appearance of the likeness of the glory of Yahweh" (Ezek. 1:28). These biblical texts indicate that at least part of the Israelite mythology conceived the floor of heaven, i.e., the base of the heavenly throne of God, as stone. The Akkadian text KAR 307, discussed in the preceding chapter, likewise imagined the base of the heavenly realms as a stony substance. This Israelite image has, therefore, parallels in the neighboring cultures.
This is only part of the picture, for in the biblical materials there is another description of the nature of the lowest level of heaven. Genesis 1:6-8 suggests that the lowest level of heaven serves as a barricade against the waters of heaven.
And God said, "Let there be a firmament (raqia') between the waters. Let there be a division between water and water." And God made the firmament and divided between the water "which is under the firmament and the water which is above the firmament. And it was so. And God called the firmament "sky" (samayim). And there was evening and morning, the second day.
 This text does not identify the substance of which this barricade (raqia') is made; it is simply a water barrier. The description, however, indicates that the text is referring to the immense airy expanse between the heavenly realm and the earth. Like their neighbors, the ancient Israelites thought that there was a vast body of water above the sky that was the source of the rain. The rainwater - "the waters in heaven" (Jer. 10:13, 5I:I6) or "above heaven" (Ps. 148:4; cf. Gen. 1:6-8) - may also be stored in heavenly cisterns (niblim, Job 38:37) or storehouses ('otsarot, Deut. 28:12) alongside the storehouses for the other meteorological phenomena such as wind, snow, and hail. The Flood story recounts that there are openings or windows in the sky through which this rainwater passes.
"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the sky were opened" (Gen. 7:11; cf. 8:2).
In one biblical image, therefore, the lowest element of the heavenly realm is the barricade that prevents the celestial water from pouring down on earth.
[…]
As in Genesis I, the base of the heavenly realm in this model is a water barrier. So, it is clear from just these few texts that both the ancient Mesopotamian and the ancient Israelite images exhibit varying beliefs about the lowest level of the heavenly realm: it was either a rocky substance (Ex. 24:9-10; Ezek. 1:26, 10:1; cf. KAR 307) or another substance designed to restrain the rainwater (Gen. 1:6-8; cf. Enuma Elish iv.135-41).

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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 21:42

Religion And Cosmology In Ancient Mesopotamia
[…]

The Levant
The Levant (including parts of modern-day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Israel-Palestine), received many cultural influences from Mesopotamia and Egypt. Libraries from cities on the border of the Levant and Mesopotamia, such as Ebla (destroyed ca. 2225 BCE) and Mari (destroyed 1759 BCE), tell us something about communication between the two areas. But the peoples of the Levant nevertheless made some of their own contributions as well. The Levantine storm god was a model for the Babylonian Marduk. The Levant was especially important for transmitting Near Eastern ideas and practices to Greece and to modern religions such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
One distinctive feature of the religion of the Levant was the role of the storm god. While the fertility of the land in Mesopotamian came from the two great rivers, the Mediterranean coast was dependent on rain from thunderstorms coming in off the sea during the winter. Crops could then be planted and harvested in the spring. Summer was a dead time of the year when crops would not grow. As a consequence, the storm god was the most important figure in the Levantine pantheon, whether called, Hadad (Syrian), Yahweh (Israelite), by any other local name, or simply Lord (Baal). 

Baal/Hadad's myth must have varied tremendously from city to city and tribe to tribe. We are fortunate to know it in detail from the version current in Ugarit, a city on the northern coast of present-day Syria. The city was destroyed about 1200 BCE, preserving the library of Ilimiku, the chief priest. The myth's three parts concern Baal's struggle for cosmic supremacy in succession to his grandfather El, who created the universe but no longer took a very active role in its governance. In the first part Baal defeats Yam, the god of the sea, together with his sea monsters Leviathan and Behemoth. Compare this to the winter thunderstorms to be seen at night over the Mediterranean from the Syrian coast. The second part of the myth concerns the building of Baal's house. First, Baal must obtain permission from Asherah, El's wife. Then the house is built in the sky by the craftsman god Kothar-wa-Hasis. This "house" corresponds both to Baal's temple in Ugarit and to his dwelling place on Mount Saphon just outside the city. In the third part of the myth Baal is dragged down to the land of the dead by its ruler Mot, but he is rescued by his sister, the virgin warrior Anat. She defeats Mot by a process identical to harvesting grain: she reaps him, winnows him, grinds him, and sows him back into the ground. Baal then returns triumphantly to heaven. It is not hard to see this episode in relation to the agriculturally dead Mediterranean summers, whose drought is defeated by the return of the winter thunderstorms. In later times the traditional gods were worshipped under Greek and Roman names at prominent temples in the Levant, and their cults also spread throughout the Roman Empire.

[…]

Israelite Religion and Judaism
The Hebrew Bible is the religious scripture of Judaism, which has survived continuously from its origins in the Bronze Age (before 1000 BCE) into the modern world. It is also the foundation document of Christianity and Islam, the two most widespread religions in the modern world. As a literary text it is an incomparable world classic with vast influence.

Judaism began within the matrix of Levantine religion but made a radical new interpretation of tradition. The Hebrew Bible has a great deal of mythology related to other Near Eastern myths, for example, Yahweh as a storm god living on a mountaintop, his slaying of Leviathan and Behemoth, and his creation of humankind from clay (the name Adam means "clay"). There is also nothing exceptional in terms of cult. Yahweh had a temple on one of his home mountains - Zion in Jerusalem - and received there the sacrifice of animals according to a fixed cultic calendar.  

But while Baal/Hadad had been the chief god worshipped in the Levant (polytheism) and Marduk had transcended his fellow deities to become a national god in Babylon (henotheism), the Bible introduces something quite new to Semitic religion—monotheism, the belief that there is only one god. The cult of other deities was characterized as idolatry, the worship of statues devoid of life and a terrible affront to Yahweh.

In the ancient Near East a common explanation for misfortune was that something had been done wrong in the worship of the gods: In order to counteract the misfortune, the gods must be worshipped again in the proper manner. Many scholars believe that this is how Jewish monotheism, the belief that Yahweh is the only god, developed, in reaction to the national catastrophe of the Babylonian captivity (587–537 BCE), when the Israelite state was conquered by the Babylonians and its ruling elite transported to Babylon. Another factor may be the essentially monotheistic beliefs of the Persian patrons of the restoration (when the Jews were allowed to return to Israel). In any case, monotheism became the principal feature of all later Judaism and eventually of Christianity and Islam.

How to Cite: Skeen, Bradley, "Religion And Cosmology In Ancient Mesopotamia", Bogucki, Peter, ed. Encyclopedia of Society and Culture in the Ancient World, New York: Facts On File, Inc., 2008, Ancient and Medieval History Online, Facts On File, Inc., Copyright © 2009 Facts On File. All Rights Reserved. 
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 23:09
<<CREATIONISM & MONOTHEISM. That a complexity must have a transcendent complex foundation [Creationism], and that ultimately the buck stops at ONE>>
 
My dear, allow me a guess: you work as a rabbi, or maybe worse, a rabbi's lackey, but not as a scientist! Otherwise you couldn't say that "a complexity can have only one source and that is transcendent". There are plenty of examples in nature/sciences where complexity is born from... chaos, or simply in the wake of such stupid mechanisms like natural selection applied to a series of possible phenomena accepted by natural (physical) laws.
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2010 at 11:37
Well researched, sourced and stated.Smile I hate to break it to you but Old Joe wore out his welcome and got booted about 2 years ago.  I personally did the booting.
 
Welcome aboard, btw.  If your just looking to go a few rounds with a heavyweight nutter, google his name, he'll show up on a dozen forums.  But why would you want to? Debating with Joe is like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels so good when you stop.WackoBig smile
 
His main hangout btw was a forum called Talk Strategy.  If you do a search for his posts here, you will quickly see the futility of effort that your letting yourself in for.  When I last checked in at TS, Joe was at 20,000 + posts, compiled in just over a year.  During the time he was active here, we think he was out of control.  However, when I asked one of the Admins. how they could tolerate him, he replied that the other active members view him as a "recreational nuisance".Big smile
 
However, I know for a fact that we have a core of members here that could give you a good intellectual workout, besides, the beer's colder here.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2010 at 10:51

thank you for the details and welcoming me here! I know now that I have to look more frequently to the date when a message was written... Geek

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2010 at 13:33
It's interesting to go back on some of the threads, esp. those that run 4-6 pages or more.  when they are that long they tend to take on a life of their own.
We encourage people to pick up dropped threads, it's just that you picked one well.......... How far back did you read?
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2010 at 23:15
We encourage people to pick up dropped threads, it's just that you picked one well.......... How far back did you read
 
I did not read very far back: initially I was interested in subjects concerning history of science, but exploring the forum I saw it is really vast and with many interesting topics.  
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2010 at 19:38
Considering the original post, just how could I deny it?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2010 at 21:26
IamJoseph,posted a long time ago;

"This means that an animal cannot be tried in a court for eating another animal ['Murder'], or for violating another animal [carnal knowledge]. The judiciary laws apply only to one unique life form. There is Gah! or there is a summation of what can be discerned."

I might well have missed reading a retort to the above assumption, but if not, I will mention that not too long ago animals were tried in Human courts of law, and found either guilty or not guilty to numerous crimes!

Therefor, they were given status as "thinking beings" and as a result they were punished for their crimes!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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