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Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack

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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack
    Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:07

Russia says Georgian forces expelled form S.Ossetian capital

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080809/115919037.html

Russia says 1,500 killed in S.Ossetia

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115917652.html

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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:48
Originally posted by Pike

We should view the current situation as part of Russia's policy of asserting her influence in former Russian/Soviet territories where she identifies her vital interests as being involved.  The deeper into the Caucasus Russian troops can be inserted, the more influence Russia has over affairs nearby which can impact those Russian interests.  "Peace keeping" and protection of Russian nationals are always handy levers.  The availability of assault troops close by the peacekeepers is revealing.
 
Russia showed in Chechnya that what is necessary to attain objectives will be done.  The lesson is intended to impress (at low cost) both the Caucsus states as well as former USSR territories like Ukraine and Kazakhstan.  It is also intended to impress Iran.
 
Not the least of the messages is being sent to NATO:  "Stay out of our sphere because you cannot do anything about these matters anyway."
 
To the UN:  "Go fly a kite."

Bullseye.

And to the US: "Stay out of central asia"
Originally posted by Al Jassas

By the way, I am actually with Ossetia getting its independence, what make me go haywire is the total hypocracy of russia when it comes to kosovo, either you take one position and stick to it or don't take a position at all.

Russia isn't being hypocritical. They want to keep as much territory for themselves (Ossetia) or their allies (Kosovo). There isn't any ideological point, just more power to Russia.
Originally posted by Temujin

what are Russian soldiers doing in Georgia?

Is it really Georgia? They have never controlled it. The only thing that makes it Georgia and not Russia is the borders the Russians drew.
Originally posted by Roberts


I don't believe that Saakashvilli with Georgia are the only ones involved there. This seemed like well designed plan attacking in the eve of Olympic games and obvious it provoked Russian invasion. There are probably bigger forces behind the scenes playing this game, Saakashivilli might as well be just a pawn.

Seconded. Saakashivilli was in Americas pocket, and I think he is counting on American help - which I would be very surprised if he got. The timing is no coincidence, but honestly, it favours Russia.

I think Saakashivilli is playing right into Medvedev's hands, but I don't know why. If Russia punishes georgia heavily in this war and georgia is left unsupported, Russia wins, big time, and Putin's strategy for the last 8 years is vindicated. On the other hand if Russia looses (I think this is highly unlikely) there is a massive victory for US/NATO interests.
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:20
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


Seconded. Saakashivilli was in Americas pocket, and I think he is counting on American help - which I would be very surprised if he got. The timing is no coincidence, but honestly, it favours Russia.

I think Saakashivilli is playing right into Medvedev's hands, but I don't know why. If Russia punishes georgia heavily in this war and georgia is left unsupported, Russia wins, big time, and Putin's strategy for the last 8 years is vindicated. On the other hand if Russia looses (I think this is highly unlikely) there is a massive victory for US/NATO interests.


Even if Russia gains total victory over Georgians - its reputation will be tarnished in the eyes of EU large states which till now were rather "supportive" or "neutral" to political situation in Moscow. We could expect that the national defense budgets will steadily raise in Europe - especially in those countries which border with Russia. France and Germany will fall under greater influence from USA.

Ukraine might be the next one. Similar situation like in Georgia. Wants to be in EU and NATO, which is certainly against Moscow's interests. But it is way larger around 40 million population and territorially wise. It would get very ugly there with full blown civil war with Russia supporting Eastern Ukraine and EU, US supporting western Ukraine.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:38
Excellent news.  South Ossetians have been brutalised by the Georgians with the west turning a blind eye for long enough.  This can be considered as a Russian liberation equivalent to Kosovo.
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:42
Originally posted by Zagros

Excellent news.  South Ossetians have been brutalised by the Georgians with the west turning a blind eye for long enough.  This can be considered as a Russian liberation equivalent to Kosovo.

Not exactly - Russians have always been there from 1991.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:20

The Russian have one corps in action already and a second one had been sent. In addition a division of paratroopers and and air assualt division. That is serious capability. Looks like they are looking to go into Georgia itself. They don't need half this strenght to chase the georgians out of S Ossetia.

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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:29

Abkhazia Threatens Georgia with Second Front


Georgia's march into South Ossetia has prompted the Abkhazia to begin preparing for war as well. Abkhazian Foreign Minister Sergei Shamba told SPIEGEL ONLINE that his province might open up a second front...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,570829,00.html

Abkhazia says Georgia boosting troops on Abkhaz Border: Report

http://www.antara.co.id/en/arc/2008/8/9/abkhazia-says-georgia

Abkhazia sending troops to Georgian border
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28706


Abkhazia about to enter war against Georgia?




Edited by Bankotsu - 09-Aug-2008 at 13:29
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:30
According to some Polish sources.
Some 6 hours ago Russia accused Ukraine for supporting 'ethnic cleansing in Ossetia

Thats the statement by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia.


Edited by Roberts - 09-Aug-2008 at 13:56
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:15
Originally posted by Roberts

According to some Polish sources.
Some 6 hours ago Russia accused Ukraine for supporting 'ethnic cleansing in Ossetia

Thats the statement by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia.
 
Any opportunity to apply pressure to the states interested in NATO membership can be expected to be taken.  The Russians perceived a setbak in the NATO decision to go ahead with the missile shield and "postpone" consideration of membership of Ukraine and Georgia in NATO.
 
What is underway now is intended to destroy that consideration.  Russia is going to operate in her sphere of influence without interference from NATO/US.
 
Understandable.  One side makes a move; the other counters. 
 
 
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:31
I really wonder how can you believe the outlandish lies, how the hell did Russia know just hours fter the battle began that 1500 civilians died in georgian shelling, I mean even if they had boots on the ground it will take days to verify the number and if these guys weren't killed by accident of deliberately. Same goes to the "peacekeepers", I mean if they were part of the UN then there should be independent verificiation if they actually died and if that was on purpose or self defense on the part of the georgians.
 
Basically, the last country in the world I would believe is Russia, I new guys who went to Chechnia and they swear that most, not all mind you, of the attrocities committed and attributed to the Chechens were the making of the Russians. And the recent events shed more light, while georgia was alledged to have shelled Tskhinvali with little proof Russia have been bombing and shelling Internationally regognized georgian civilian territory, mainly the city of Gori: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm. now russia have lost all the moral ground it bases its war on.
 
finally, what kind of support of "territorial integrity" that blatently undermines georgian authority, forbids them from enforcing georgian laws and constitution, gives Russian nationality en masse to a segment of a population and finally declares outright war when it did exactly what that same nation  did to one of its territories, Chechnia?
 
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:34
Originally posted by Roberts

I don't know what they have officially said regarding Abhazia and South Ossetia. But all this time they have certainly prevented them to be become fully part of Georgia state. I smell hypocrisy.
 
If you move your nose toward Brussels you will find that this smell becomes even stronger. And the strongest smell comes with Atlantic storms Smile
 
Answering your question elswere in this topic -- what do Russians do in Georgia -- the answer is: protecting her geopolitical interests. One of which is influence in Caucassus region. Whether one likes it or not this is a reality and Russia has political and economical power to realize them. And it was huge mistake from the side of Georgia to make a direct confrontation with Russia. And especially crazy was to make military confrontation. Finally it was stupid to belive that appart from political support they will get anything more from USA. Note that large part of Georgian economics come from Russia and direct arguing with Russia simply leads to decrease in life standarts in Georgia. So instead of concentrating on their problems they waste limited national resources for nothing. If they were freezing the situation with Abhazia and SO and concentrate as I said on development of their economics (they have all resources  for that) they would create a confederation with Abhazia and SO within next 50 years. They should have learned Balkan mistakes.
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:38
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Basically, the last country in the world I would believe is Russia, I new guys who went to Chechnia and they swear that most, not all mind you, of the attrocities committed and attributed to the Chechens were the making of the Russians.
 
And obviously you trust pro Chechens propaganda. Guess why? Yes, because you are a muslim ...
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:45
Leonardo that was uncalled for and you are casting aspirations on Al Jassas. The recision of your warning was not an invitation to reoffend.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:54

Actually Leo's comments are an indication on his character, he is only hurting himself and believe me, I won't lose sleep over his comments.

 
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:56

Abkhazia enters war against Georgia

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008

Some 129 Georgians killed in conflict-govt source
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288476

Olympics-Georgia may pull out of Beijing Games - NOC
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288477


Edited by Bankotsu - 09-Aug-2008 at 16:00
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:06
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Roberts

I don't know what they have officially said regarding Abhazia and South Ossetia. But all this time they have certainly prevented them to be become fully part of Georgia state. I smell hypocrisy.
 
If you move your nose toward Brussels you will find that this smell becomes even stronger. And the strongest smell comes with Atlantic storms Smile

Yes, yes, but with the hypocrisy remark - I didn't have Kosovo in mind, but Chechnya if you wonder.

Answering your question elswere in this topic -- what do Russians do in Georgia -- the answer is: protecting her geopolitical interests. One of which is influence in Caucassus region.

About the question - it was rhetorical in nature answering to Bankotsu post.
But with the rest of all your comments, i agree.



Edited by Roberts - 09-Aug-2008 at 16:06
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:10

Medvedev tells Bush Russia aims to force Georgia to accept peace

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115925621.html

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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:27
Russian news agency Interfax says that they saw NATO vehicles being transported by train from Bantumi to South Ossetia. They said that vehicles have no identification signs on them.
They also said that near Bantumi they have spotted Turkish naval ships fully loaded with naval infantry.

Edited by Roberts - 09-Aug-2008 at 16:28
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:37
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Actually Leo's comments are an indication on his character, he is only hurting himself and believe me, I won't lose sleep over his comments.

 
Al-Jassas
 
And you too Al Jassas have to be careful.
 
Everyone, please presume good faith.
 
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:38

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline

The pipeline is owned by a consortium of energy companies led by BP (formerly British Petroleum), the operator of the pipeline. The shareholders of the consortium are:


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