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Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack

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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack
    Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:27
Originally posted by Roberts


Then What Russian troops are doing in Georgia if the Russia respects territorial integrity of Georgia?


I think Russian troops in south ossetia is to deter a Georgian invasion of south ossetia.

Looks like that failed.
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:27
Ossetia has always been part of georgia and georgian tribes lived there way back to the Arab conquests who mentioned nothing about any other nationality. Ossetians came late during the Ottoman and Russian rule and lived in those regions deserted by ordinary georgians. Abkhazia on the other hand was mixed region and more georgians lived there than abkhazians and all of them are now living as refugees kicked out of their homes with the help of Russia.
 
As for Russia supporting georgian claims, well actions say the opposite, whenever georgia wanted to consolidate its rule russia threatened with retaliation, that is we fully support your right to own your house but if somebody came and kicked you out don't dare defend yourself because we will hurt you?
 
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:30
Only Russia Can Save South Ossetia From Humanitarian Catastrophe

A fear of war has increased in South Ossetia in recent days. Practically each night the capital of the breakaway republic, Tskhinvali, and other areas come under Georgian fire. On 4 August the South Ossetian Interior Ministry made an announcement saying that Georgia had placed D-30 howitzers and two artillery batteries in the conflict zone. Georgia‘s Defense Ministry said it was going to introduce troops to the border but we know perfectly well the cost of such announcements. In an interview with ITAR-TASS news agency, Vladimir Ivanov, aide to the Chief of the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces, was quoted as saying that “currently the situation in the conflict zone remains tense and yet there is no even a slightest sign of reconciliation”. Although the night on August the 5th was relatively calm, of course this is an illusion.

Probably, Georgia had nothing to do but make a pause in its military campaign against South Ossetia after counting the victims among the officers. Russia‘s Channel One broadcast an interview with the South Ossetian Security Council Secretary Anatoly Barankevich, who said that Georgia had lost 29 officers in skirmished. He confirmed the authenticity of information but added that the official Tbilisi would naturally deny everything.

According to some media, Georgia imposed an information blockade on its mass media. The truth about the number of victims is concealed, all the fact are distorted, although the issue is much rumored in Tbilisi. Apart from this, Georgia did no dare to continue its aggressive policy after it had been strongly criticized by Russia, the breakaway republic of Abkhazia and the whole North Caucasus. Besides, the Minister of State for Reintegration of Georgia, Temur Yakobashvili, paid a visit to South Ossetia to launch talks with the leaders of the unrecognized republic. Apparently, it was an attempt to use methods of shuttle diplomacy to correct the mistakes of the military campaign. Yet there can be some other explanations: Georgia could have been thinking of improving its image abroad by putting forward such ‘peace initiatives’. But Mr. Yakobashvili was not welcomed by South Ossetian President Eduard Kokoity and thus failed to bring Mikheil Saakashvili‘s message home to the opponents. So, Georgian aggression may now enter a new phase.

On the whole, Tbilisi has succeeded in sustainable implementation of its plan. The Georgian army managed to occupy its positions in the border area and place a battalion of long-range artillery. Snipers seized control over the heights surrounding Tskhinvali. Yet it is unclear whether the Georgian soldiers are ready to die for this control. Saakashvili hopes for a blitzkrieg, otherwise his initiative will hardly be popular among the people.

Everything which is currently going on in the conflict zone, was initiated from abroad. Recently Georgia and U.S. have had joint military exercises in Vaziani. The maneuvers, symbolically dubbed as “Immediate Response”, gave a powerful impulse to Georgian aggression: President Saakashvili (and Russia) were given to understand who and how would help Georgia in case of a war in the Caucasus.

What else does the official Tbilisi do to implement this imposed plan?

Georgia tried hard to provoke Russia`s aggressive response, but all it was in vain. The Russian peacekeepers, their positions in the region regularly attacked, had to do nothing but to confirm unannounced military actions. However, Tbilisi has enough reasons to change the format of negotiations since Russia had increased the number of peacekeepers in the conflict zone and its planes carried out flight above South Ossetia (formally Georgian territory). Besides, the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces failed to improve the situation without using force against an aggressor. Now Georgia`s main goal is to persuade the international community to press Russia over the issue and invite Ukrainian or the Baltic peacekeepers to monitor the situation in the region.

Kiev has repeatedly announced its readiness to replace Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. That is why Tbilisi insists on direct talks with Russia. According to Temur Yakobashvili, the work of the Mixed Control Commission (MCC) had already caused a tragedy as people were dying in the conflict zone, their houses destroyed. “That is why, if Ossetia insists on the same format of peacekeeping activity, it would be immoral”, he said. If the MCC, comprising Russia, Georgia, South Ossetia and the Republic of North Ossetia-Alania, no longer takes part in the negotiations, it would mean that Russia is deprived of any rights to influence the situation. If Tbilisi manages to prove to the EU and US that the work of the MCC is ineffective, it would be an hour of triumph for the “hawk diplomats”.

But what is especially annoying about all this is that Georgia contributed greatly to a humanitarian catastrophe South Ossetia is about to face these days. Wikipedia, the biggest multilingual free-content encyclopedia on the Internet, describes a humanitarian catastrophe as a situation when a society faces a threat of extinction due to starvation, violence, epidemics, caused by a war, and also due to the loss of moral orienteers. Unfortunately, the situation in Tskhinvali and the suburbs matches the description in full. But there is an important remark- South Ossetia is facing a humanitarian catastrophe because of a purposed implementation of aggressive policy by the Georgian authorities. So, the breakaway republic can resort to the so-called ‘humanitarian intervention’ against Georgia. A prominent lawyer K. Greenwood characterized this kind of intervention as a “measure aimed at preventing death of a nation”. It also means that South Ossetia can use diplomatic and economic means to press on Georgia.

Here are some facts to prove the reality of a humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia:

- Bombardment of the territories leading to casualties among the civilians. On August, 4, Georgian armed groups attacked a funeral procession in the village of Mugut in the Znaur district of South Ossetia.

- Aimed sniper fire of a hospital in Tskhinvali

- Shortage of fresh water. Officials of the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces and the OSCE, together with a group of Georgian and South Ossetian ecologists, monitored the quality of water at the Edis-Tskhinval water pipe and reported 61 cases of illegal water siphoning. That is Tskhinvali is receiving 75% less water than needed.

- A mass exodus of women and children from the conflict zone to North Ossetia and other republics of the North Caucasus. According to the Federal Border Guard Service of Russia, over the past few days 1500 women and children crossed the border and entered the territory of North Ossetia. It is worth mentioning that they are passengers of the humanitarian trips organized by the Russian authorities. And we can only guess how more people fled South Ossetia without any help…

This is a real catastrophe for such thinly populated republic like South Ossetia. What is especially shocking about all this is a cynical attitude Georgia demonstrates towards the people they call their “countrymen”. The RBK news agency reported that Tbilisi treated the information on the evacuation from South Ossetia as something “unworthy of note”. Temur Yakobashvili even called this a part of an information war. “Nothing serious. Children were just leaving for rest, and now they call it evacuation”. So, Minister of State for Reintegration of Georgia thinks the death of men, women and children in South Ossetia can be caused by “an information war”.

For an unbiased person it won`t be difficult to see a parallel between the current humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia and the war crimes of the 20th century. Remember a long Serbian blockade of Sarajevo during an armed conflict between Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yet there are two principal differences: 1) the situation in Sarajevo resulted from genocide of the Serbian population in Bosnia and Herzegovina, carried out by the regime of Alija Izetbegović. 2) the “international community” stamped the army chiefs of the Republica Srpska as war criminals (unlike their Bosnian rivals), although Serbs suffered most as a result of a humanitarian catastrophe in the region. Recently First President of Republica Srpska, Radovan Karadzic, became another victim of the western political machine. Neither Izetbegovic nor Franjo Tudjman were honored in such a way…

Like Serbs, the people of South Ossetia have no other patrons except Russia. And Moscow cannot ignore this. No matter how the situation develops further, the people of South Ossetia will still live in fear of genocide. So Russia has all the rights to use force to save the minor nation from extinction. Apart from this, Moscow can resort to more complicated diplomatic means to influence the situation in the conflict zone. The United Nations Organisation is another institution able to change the situation for the better.

One of the prior tasks is to hold an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council in order to decide on the measures to be taken to deal with the consequences of the humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia. It demands the UN Security Council to admit that the catastrophe was caused by Georgia’s aggressive policy and to launch a humanitarian intervention if Tbilisi denies the accusations.

The UN Security Council has to make a difficult and serious decision. As the world news agencies reported on August, 5, the UN officials yet were not going to place the issue on the agenda. Despite all this, it is Russia`s debt to remember that each day the people of South Ossetia are being forced to leave their historical lands.

http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=1522

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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:31
Com' on Bankotsu, you can just stop copy pasting whole articles. Better just give a link and add your comment to it.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:41
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Ossetia has always been part of georgia and georgian tribes lived there way back to the Arab conquests who mentioned nothing about any other nationality. Ossetians came late during the Ottoman and Russian rule and lived in those regions deserted by ordinary georgians. Abkhazia on the other hand was mixed region and more georgians lived there than abkhazians and all of them are now living as refugees kicked out of their homes with the help of Russia.
 
As for Russia supporting georgian claims, well actions say the opposite, whenever georgia wanted to consolidate its rule russia threatened with retaliation, that is we fully support your right to own your house but if somebody came and kicked you out don't dare defend yourself because we will hurt you?
 
Al-Jassas 
Russia didn't recognize "independence" of Ossetia and Abkhazia these are facts.
 
If you think that attacking and killing peacekeepers is normal and openly lie about peace and than start massive assault in the night it's normal, then I'm afraid we don't have common ground for discussing this problem.
 
Russia is not going to tolerate this situation. If the Georgian dictator thinks that he can resolve the internal problems of his country by the war, he has made a big mistake.
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:48

Georgian troops retreat from S. Osettian capital

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28668

NATO encouraged Georgia – Russian envoy

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28660

Georgia vs. South Ossetia: roots of a 100-year conflict

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28654

Georgia, Washington and Moscow: a Nuclear Geopolitical Poker Game
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9564




Edited by Bankotsu - 08-Aug-2008 at 18:04
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  Quote Bankotsu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:52
I wonder why Georgia timed the assault against South Ossetia to coincide with
Olympic Games opening ceremony in Beijing.

It is to take advantage of world's current focus on Beijing to strike?
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:53
I have lost the ball with Caucasus.....It should be Caucasuzation, not Balkanization.
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--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:10
Originally posted by Bankotsu

Originally posted by Roberts


Then What Russian troops are doing in Georgia if the Russia respects territorial integrity of Georgia?


I think Russian troops in south ossetia is to deter a Georgian invasion of south ossetia.

Looks like that failed.
 
You are denying Your own words. How can Georgia invade their own territory?
 
Apart from this I don't know who strted this and who is to blame. I'm sure both sides have 50% fault.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:18
 
....i have spoken on the phone only just today to a family member in the Abkhazian capital of Sukumi and rumours are abound that Georgia has 'invaded' Ossetia and the news being given is that Abkhazia will be the next target of Georgian hostilities....
 
...at the moment everything is unclear and we are currently swapping various news stories we are hearing....it seems that a large number of Abkhazian men, including my brother-in-law are readying themselves with weapons to fight back if necessary....also, it seems that many Abkhazian men are arming themselves and heading to Ossetia to help against Georgina forces... 
 
..its pretty damn worrying for my partner and me as her mother and her immediate family are caught up in all this and they all have grim memories and stories regarding the first major conflict which took place in the early 1990's.....much was lost last time including life and property......hope some form of common sense prevails....
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:37

My uncle works for Abu Dhabi group, he has been posted to Georgia for a year. His family just went to meet him,. God I hope its alright.

 
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:07
Now, who attacked first? Stern%20Smile

Today an Azerbaijanian fellow called me and said Georgian troops entered Osetia and killed some Russian soldiers first.


Edited by erkut - 08-Aug-2008 at 20:11
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:27
Originally posted by erkut

Now, who attacked first? Stern%20Smile

Today an Azerbaijanian fellow called me and said Georgian troops entered Osetia and killed some Russian soldiers first.

What is Turkey's government stance in this conflict, have they commented? Since the Turkey share border with Georgia and quite important gas pipeline goes through it.
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  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:31
War With Georgia
August 8, 2007: A week of fighting in Georgia (on Russians southern border in the Caucasus) was apparently a Georgian attempt to finally defeat ethnic separatists in the breakaway area of South Ossetia (population 50,000). Georgia announced that it had liberated the separatist area. Russia has not yet announced if it will go to war to support the, apparently, defeated South Ossetian separatists.


There is a second such area; Abkhazia (population 200,000). Georgia has a population of 4.6 million, and a hostile relationship (going back centuries) with Russia. In response to this bad attitude, Russia has backed the rebels of Abkhazia and South Ossetia (which are on the Russian border) since the early 1990s. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union (and Russia) for over two centuries. Georgians tolerated this for a long time as the only way to keep the Moslem Turks out of Christian Georgia. But with the end of the Cold War, this was no longer an issue and the Georgians wanted the Russians gone. The Russians considered the Georgians ungrateful and unreliable (for allowing Chechen rebels to hide out in neighboring Georgian mountains.)


The fighting in South Ossetia and Abkhazia had stopped over a decade ago, because Georgia could not muster sufficient military force to regain control of the two breakaway border areas. Then a UN brokered peace deal brought in several thousand Russian peacekeepers. About ten days ago, there were were reports of gunfire and mortar shells exploding in South Ossetia. In the last few days, Georgian Su-25 ground attack aircraft were seen hitting targets in South Ossetia. Artillery shells were reported to have hit a Russian peace keeper barracks. Russia announced that it was sending more peacekeeping troops to South Ossetia. Russian aircraft were reported to have bombed targets just inside Georgia. Russia was unable to get the UN to pass a resolution demanding that Georgia cease efforts to get back control of its territory.

 
Somebody was getting played as the fool in the peace efforts, and it's not clear who it really is yet? Until then, i'm not going to rush too judgement until the facts are much more clearer!
 
 
 


Edited by Panther - 08-Aug-2008 at 20:37
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:55
This war has started to affect Russian economics.

In the Moscow stock market. The main trade index has fallen by 6,5%.

The most share value reduction have experienced two Russian oil giants Rosneft and Lukiol. Their shares have fallen accordingly by 9,8% and 7,3%.

The Russian national currency "rubl" has fallen against US $ by 2 %
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 21:31
NEWS UPDATE

Turkey has agreed to a request from neighbour Georgia to supply the country with electricity amid the conflict in the breakaway South Ossetia region, a senior Turkish Energy Ministry source told Reuters on Friday.
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:05
We should view the current situation as part of Russia's policy of asserting her influence in former Russian/Soviet territories where she identifies her vital interests as being involved.  The deeper into the Caucasus Russian troops can be inserted, the more influence Russia has over affairs nearby which can impact those Russian interests.  "Peace keeping" and protection of Russian nationals are always handy levers.  The availability of assault troops close by the peacekeepers is revealing.
 
Russia showed in Chechnya that what is necessary to attain objectives will be done.  The lesson is intended to impress (at low cost) both the Caucsus states as well as former USSR territories like Ukraine and Kazakhstan.  It is also intended to impress Iran.
 
Not the least of the messages is being sent to NATO:  "Stay out of our sphere because you cannot do anything about these matters anyway."
 
To the UN:  "Go fly a kite."
 
 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:44
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

We should view the current situation as part of Russia's policy of asserting her influence in former Russian/Soviet territories where she identifies her vital interests as being involved.  The deeper into the Caucasus Russian troops can be inserted, the more influence Russia has over affairs nearby which can impact those Russian interests.  "Peace keeping" and protection of Russian nationals are always handy levers.  The availability of assault troops close by the peacekeepers is revealing.
 
Russia showed in Chechnya that what is necessary to attain objectives will be done.  The lesson is intended to impress (at low cost) both the Caucsus states as well as former USSR territories like Ukraine and Kazakhstan.  It is also intended to impress Iran.
 
Not the least of the messages is being sent to NATO:  "Stay out of our sphere because you cannot do anything about these matters anyway."
 
To the UN:  "Go fly a kite."
 
 
 
Whaterver one says, it's fact that the Georgian leadership bears all the responsiblity for this conflict. Just 2 days ago Georgia promised that all the disagreements will be resolved peacefully. The next night they attacked the Ossetian villages with the full power. This happened on the first day on the Olympics apparently, to divert the world's attention from this small Georgian blietzkrieg. According to Ossetian refuges 3 Ossetian villages are raised to the ground with the civillians remaining there dead. Already more than 1000 Ossetian civilians have been killed.
UN and many influential world leaders called Georgia to stop fighting and peacefully resolve the conflict. Despite all the that the Georgian baffoon, Saalashvilili continued his "blietzkrieg" which lead to the murder of 10 Russian peacekeepers and the Russian peacekeepers base complitely destroyed by the massive artillery fire.
Now he is crying that Russia retaliated. Russia did what she had to do, the baffoon is crying now, but his "brilliant" plan of putting Ossetia on its knees has already failed LOL.
Russia didn't start this conflict.  It's protecting now Ossetian people from another genocide.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 08-Aug-2008 at 22:47
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:47
Originally posted by erkut

Now, who attacked first? Stern%20Smile

Today an Azerbaijanian fellow called me and said Georgian troops entered Osetia and killed some Russian soldiers first.
 
This is exactly what happened.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:52
Here is the article which examines the origins of the conflict in Ossetia.
 
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