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How to defeat pikemen

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Count Belisarius View Drop Down
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to defeat pikemen
    Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 03:20
What sparked its mind was the horse is an evil minded four legged she-demon hwo looks like Queen Latifah (really she doesSmile) but my point is she did not perceive me to be a solid object


Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)


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Darius of Parsa View Drop Down
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  Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 03:30
I did not say it did.
What is the officer problem?
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  Quote Husaria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 04:25
Count you were charged by a horse and your still able to type the message saying you were?WinkLOL
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 06:37
I can move at a high rate of speed when I wish and I was standing by a truck with the cab door open


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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2008 at 13:03
I think it is time for everyone to consider returning to the topic at hand.  In the mean time, I am moving it to Historical Amusement because there is a clear mixture of fact and alternative history going on!
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  Quote GR3Y077 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2008 at 13:36

With 50 pikemen and 50 archers vs 100 horse archers, 100 horse easily archers win. Iirc in Asia maybe a 4 to 1 footbased to cavalry ratio or more would be required. afaik, the ancient Han Dynasty militarily defeated horse archers often, by relying on immense armies of crossbowmen (including 'repeating crossbows') probably mixed with pikemen and alot of heavy cavalry.

The primary reasons for the horse archer, were logistical, tactical, and mental not mathematical. Food is easier to recieve when you have a larger radius to get from. Messages could be relayed much faster, wihtout the use of fire. Tatically, nomadic armies typically were much more flexible. They knew where the enemy was better, were able to hide its intentions, and able to react more quickly to changing circumstances. Pikemen might be more low level relatively recently trained recruits, whereas horse archers are brought up fighting with bow and horse.

Mountainous regions: Favor nomads. Pikemen have had a much harder time getting resources and getting to strategic locations. Its easier for cavalry to retreat and reappear at another corridor or hit vital supplies. Nomads often grew up in terrain having many mountains, e.g. Afganistan, Uzbekistan, western China. The fall of the Chinese Jin dynasty took place in a battle within a mountainous region against a smaller nomad force.

Mud: how many places actually have a lot of mud all over? The only reason horse archers would fight in swamp is in support of an infantry force having to march through swamp. Since horse archers are nomads, there rarely is such an infantry force.

Forest: If there's just one heavy forest hiding an army, the nomads will definitely set it on fire as armies always would. Ok if all the important towns actually are in forests (maybe like Vietnam for example) pikemen could win.. other than that..

Water: Probably, the terrain argument only holds when it involves water (but then we're not talking about pikemen :) )

:)

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2008 at 13:45

Penny for your thoughts. It has been said above that nomads would be favored in mountainous regions for reasons of logistics and strategy. Yes and no. Depending on the terrain. When it came to actual battle the army that hides the best (ambush) and can slow down the opposition may have the upper hand. Thus that hand goes to the footies.

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  Quote Choranzanus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 21:51
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Did you check out the site? you have to train them my dad grew up around horses so my granddad and since there aren't warhorses around today we may never know, trust me you can get a horse to charge a person you can get them to charge together in a charge only the front rank of horses will see the enemy formation and since there are a bunch of other horses behind them charging at a run they will move or get crushed and since horses are herd animals they will stay together and follow the leader, another thing to keep in mind is that even though they lived five hundred years ago these people weren't stupid


You cannot train any type of animal to loose its instincts.  Horses would not want to charge a wall of axes and spears, as they would not want to charge straight into a thorny bush. And I am not going to respond to that last sentence...

This is wrong and one of the most common misconceptions about knights, that horses would not charge solid objects or spear lines.

In fact in Bohemia, one of the most common ways of knightly training was to charge a wall and break a heavy lance against it.

Medieval military theory gives one knight to be the equivalent on a battlefield of as much as 10 or 12 footmen. Those numbers seem very large if you do not take time to understand why knights dominated warfare in Europe for such a long time. If you tried to stop knights with infantry armed with axes, they would get annihilated , literally.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2011 at 19:06
The easiest way for cavalry to defeat pikemen would be to dismount and pick them off from a distance with carbines. If the troopers lay close to the ground or used walls, trees and ditches as cover it would be very difficult for the enemy musketeers to effectively return fire
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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  Quote soulmagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2014 at 11:21
The main thing you need is a good general. Infantry are slower than cavalry and can outmanuver a unit of pikemen. Take Alexander The Greek and his companion cavalry. They maneuver till the Persians expose a flank charge through the gap created and attack from the rear.
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2014 at 18:14
You...get...a...bigger...pike.  Ermm

The days of massed formations of pikemen died with the advent of cannon.


Edited by Mountain Man - 27-Apr-2014 at 18:15
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2014 at 09:30
If by some chance you would encounter a formation of massed Pikeman, remind them that they are 300 years out of their time line.  And then cycle through 200 rounds on your "Squad Assault Weapon".
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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