Will China ever acquire/purchase Siberia?

Originally posted by phoenix_bladen Originally posted by ianhughes Originally posted by phoenix_bladen ic that's really interesting information.... and i have to be surprised about the chinese discovery of sahklan.... if there was any land claims china could well be able to hold it's own if it really wanted it ... but i doubt ... Well I wasn't all that surprised and I'm half Chinese hhahaha. Back then, you can imagine China is something like the USA today. They were miles ahead of their neighbours. yea they were..... but i dunno......would US someday become just another country also ?  Considering superpowers rise and fall it probably will... however it's hard to picture since we're living in this time US has always been so powerful since the last century lol...

Nothing is "impossible" in this world. Mongolians has the world's largest empire (arguably) and China had a few black centuries before it started to rebuild. If you went back in time say in the 1500s, no one could even fathom the dominance of Japan today or China would be importing culture and technology from South Korea and Japan.

The key to sustaining a lead is to be open. Do note that in China's glorious years, they were rather inquisitive and developmental in scientific approaches. Although this came in the form of a rather rigid selection structure of the best talent and the royals being the drivers, not as currently in the USA - the companies.

If today, the USA government cut Microsoft, IBM and other giants into small companies because they are "monopolising" theri sector or becoming too big, America will fall behind within say 5 to 8 years. America is not immune to the failures that had plagued past empires and nations. All you need to a foolish and authoritation government to kill a powerful nation. It takes decades to build one, but just years to destroy it.

Who knows, maybe in 2500AD America become what Mongolia is today?

Back to Siberia (which I find interesting and could go on for hours). When I toured there twice (once in Spring and "Autumn" - more like mid winter for me), I dont think the land is all that importants sans the resources.

The only truly worthwhile cities are Vladivostok and Kharborvsk, maybe Madagan. Vladivostok is extremely useful as a warm water, ice free port city and I suppose if China had a choice, it would take back just this city if required.

True, the land is good for argriculture and wild food such as gingseng, but other than that, it would turn into some backwater city if China took over (same happening with Russia atm). Due to its sheer extremes in weather (-50C to 40C), you need damn good resources (it has) and technology (it hasn't) to make it into some sorta decent city. Also, due to the vast land mass and distance from any ports, transportation costs would go through the roof.

Hypothetically, if China got the Russian Far East region, only the coastal and closer to current day China cities would be better off. Regions such as Yakut, deep near the artic circle would cost a lot to receive goods and services.

Originally posted by phoenix_bladen

ic ic i'd like to find more about the RFE and siberia... maybe some of the ppl living there... i'm interested in looking at pics of the asian looking ethnic groups.

[/QUOTE]

There was a website posted in this thread (I think its the Chinese National Alliance website) that had a lot of pictures and info about the RFE. I'm not too sure about others though, very scant info on the RFE (other than BBC et al. documenting the Russians bitching about a Chinese take away).

To be honest, the current CCP is not very interested in getting back RFE:

1. It has focused on economics these days rather than border disputes (most Chinese border areas are defined except for the far West region of Kashmir).

2. Whilst the RFE does provide 2 extra livable cities the Chinese would like to have (mind you, also one damn strategic port), there are probably more cons if hypotheically they got the RFE - handling those Russians and native tribes.

3. Russia is still much more militarily developed than China. The latter still imports most of its military gear from Russia, so it's still very dependant on Russia.

4. The current relationship works out to be rather "nice" for both sides. China gets rather cheap natural resources without having to deal with the clean ups e.g. logging and its consequences. In actual fact, the pollution caused by winds spreading from China into Russia is more of a problem and also the damn logging of forests. Russia on the other hand gets revenue from these extraction activities and pipes it back to Moscow. RFE's good has been extracted yet the natives are the ones who have to deal with the consequences yet don't receive any benefits. Putin doesn't give two sh*ts about 5-7 million or so Russians there when he has more than 100 million in European Russia and gets all these financial benefits.

If Siberia was a barren piece of crap without the forests, natural resources, habitable land and some areas where climate is ripe for argriculture, I dont think they'd be too interested.

I suppose the Qing empire's mistake was letting the RFE go without a gun being fired. Sometimes you really wonder what China would have been like with the RFE, especially Vladivostok.

Siberia (Sibir), i doubt it, Amur, possibly.

I can think of more creative ways of torturing myself.

If the chinese continue to migrate to that land then expect them to eventually be the majority in 30 years, just as the Russians are complaining about these days, and like how Mexicans or hispanics are projected to be the majority in the US within 15 years by 2020.

The current regime is not as interested in taking back northern manchuria, they are more worried about Taiwan and the economy, but expect the next generation to start calling for the eventual return of the area north and east of the Amur when the Taiwan dispute is solved.

Russia Sells Alaska to United States The dwindling of the fur trade and involvement in the Crimean War led Russia to sell Alaska to the United States in 1867. The Alaska "district" was administered in succession by the Army for 10 years, the Treasury Department for 2 years, and the Navy for 5 years, without even a code of laws. Its first governor was appointed in 1884, it was given its own legal code between 1898 and 1900, and in 1906 it was permitted to send an official delegate to the National Congress. Alaska finally became a territory in 1912, and a state in 1959.

 

Edited by kermit_criminal

Originally posted by sinosword it doesn't listen strange. the russian socalled far eastern areas had been chinese territory originally.

 Originally Chinese Territory hah ... Now Its More Strange "khtay" .

but northern manhuria dosent seem so out of the realm of possibility

Thats basicly Amur though, or that region.
Lots of English speakers mistakenly assume that Siberia = everything east of the Urals, bit it specificly refers to a region sort of in the middle of Russia.
I was in analy Pedantic Geographer mode

Originally posted by Sultan Main article: History of Siberia Siberia was occupied by differing groups of nomads such as the Yenets, the Nenets, the Huns, and the Uyghurs. The Khan of Sibir in the vicinity of modern Tobolsk was known as a prominent figure who endorsed Kubrat as Khagan in Avaria in 630. The area was conquered by the Mongols in the 13th century and eventually became the autonomous Siberian Khanate. The growing power of Russia to the east began to undermine the Khanate in the 16th century. First groups of traders and Cossacks began to enter the area, and then the imperial army began to set up forts further and further east. By the mid-17th century, the Russian-controlled areas had been extended to the Pacific. Siberia remained a mostly unexplored and uninhabited area. During the following few centuries, only a few exploratory missions and traders inhabited Siberia. The other group that were sent to Siberia were prisoners exiled from western Russia. The first great change to Siberia was the Trans-Siberian railway, constructed in 1891 - 1905. It linked Siberia more closely to the rapidly-industrializing Russia of Nicholas II. Siberia is filled with natural resources and during the 20th century these were developed, and industrial towns cropped up throughout the region.  Now You Went So Far Away Out From Your Wall Of Cowardness , Didnt You ?

im talking about northern manchuria, that area belonged to the manchus, you can have the rest of siberia. you have yet to prove "outer manchuria" never did belong to the manchu dynasty china. how can you be a kazakh and defend russia for taking outer manchuria?

as for the "wall of cowardice", the manchu invaded and became chinese, extending their empire's territory beyond the great wall. it is the reason china is still here and the roman empire isnt . i dont see why the need to insult the chinese for building the wall when your people have never built anything worth visiting.

Edited by kermit_criminal

here is a map of qing(manchu) dynasty china before having to cede major portions of land to the russians

http://map.huhai.net/58-59.jpg

 

Edited by kermit_criminal

Ok, first off, Tang didn't control Sakhalin.

Second, Barhae (Bohai) seems to just have disappered.  Barhae occupied all the territories Tang had one through it's wars with Goguryeo.  And don't hit me up with that Bohai Prefecture stuff.  What kind of Prefecture attacks it's own country?  (732 ce Barhae attatched Shandong)

Barhae


So you see, Siberia really belongs to the Manchus and the Koreans.

Hand it over.


Hohoho ..it's funny when when we make ourselves believe that we can prove things with maps.


Edited by Gubook Janggoon