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Integration of Tatars in Turkey
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calvo View Drop Down
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Integration of Tatars in Turkey
    Posted: 16-Jul-2008 at 14:54
I have read somewhere that up to 5 million Turkish citizens today descend from Crimean and Nogai Tatars who emigrated there a century ago. At least at the time they emigrated, most of them settled in rural Anatolian regions where they preserved their language and culture.
 
Is Tatar culture still alive in Turkey today, or have the descendants of Tatars fully assimilated into wider Turkish society?
Are the Tatar villages still "Tatar" in character?
 
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 17:30
This article has some answers to your questions
 

Crimean Tatars and Noghais in Turkey

Henryk Jankowski*

 
The issue of assimilation is complicated due to the blurred distinctions between these similar groups of people. They are both Turkic, muslim and have recent historical connections. However, Turks of Turkey claim descendance from Oghuz Turks while the Tatars are Kipchak. Tatars over time naturally shift closer towards their Turkey Turk brethren due to their languages being mutually intellegible, sharing a common religion and having cultural similarities. 
 
An important point is that Turkey is the centre of the Crimen Tatar movements, they promote their cause, celebrate their holidays like Sabuntuy and recently had some sucess witht the Ukranian government in relocations back to Crimea.
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 18:27
Thanks.
 
It looks like that the integration and assimilation of Tatars in Turkey is similar to that of ethnic minorities in the UK, USA, and France; only that Tatar and Turkish are vey similiar to begin with.
Are Tatar and Anatolian Turkish mutually intelligible without translation?
Do the descendants of Noghais in Turkey still look Mongoloid? Or have they mostly intermarried with others and lost their traits? At least when I travelled in Turkey I hardly saw any native Turks with Mongoloid/Central Asian facial features.
 
In Turkey, it is forbidden to make any census of the population based on ethnic origin, isn't it?
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 19:48
Calvo
It looks like that the integration and assimilation of Tatars in Turkey is similar to that of ethnic minorities in the UK, USA, and France; only that Tatar and Turkish are vey similiar to begin with.
 
The integration and assimilation could be described as being more similar to Volga Germans in Germany, or Iraqi Arabs in Syria.
 
Also, due to there being no differentiation of "Turk"/"Turkic" in Turkey, Tatar and Nogay being regarded as Turks were able to keep their traditions and culture more effectively, they still preserve their cuisine, celebrations, music etc
 
Calvo
Are Tatar and Anatolian Turkish mutually intelligible without translation?
 
Due to the Ottoman influence there is high mutual intellegibility.
 
Calvo
Do the descendants of Noghais in Turkey still look Mongoloid? Or have they mostly intermarried with others and lost their traits? At least when I travelled in Turkey I hardly saw any native Turks with Mongoloid/Central Asian facial features.
 
It all depends where you visit, which towns, cities and villages.
 
The highest concentration of Tatars is in the "Eskisehir" region, there are other areas around Central Anatolia with large populations and also the Adana/Ceyhan province.
 
Also not all Central Asians look like Mongols, especially for example in Turkmenistan, Ozbekistan and Eastern Turkistan/Xinjiang. Tatars also are not all similar looking, in Turkey you can find all different looks. 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2008 at 22:31
AFAIK integration of Crimean Tatars in Turkey is a very smooth process. Crimean Tatars become "Turkish" very fast and without any problem.
 
In fact Crimean Tatars look very "Caucasian," blonds with blue eyes are very common among them. Smile
 
Crimean Tatars themselves have 3 dialects: steppe (Nogai) dialect which is most close to Kipchak, city dialect which is almost the same with Ottoman Turkish and Tat (or Mountain) dialect which is kind of mixture between the former two.
 
Written Crimean Tatar language is based on the Tat dialect and is very influenced by Turkish, so communication between Crimean Tatars and Turks is not a problem at all.
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 16:40

I thought that the Noghais looked mostly "Mongoloid".

In the article that Bulldog posted there was a reference to "Gypsies" who call themselves "Tatars". What have the Gypsies got to do with the Tatars? Aren't Roma and Tatar 2 ethnicities with absolutely nothing to do with each other?
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 18:39

I think this is the paragraph you were referring to.

The relationship between Tatars and Noghais who are in contact is nationally unmarked. No derogatory, offensive approach was manifest. [32] The position of Gypsies, who predominantly live in Alpu, is different. They live in a separate district of the township. When talking about themselves with the outsiders, they say they are Tatars. Tatars warned me against addressing Gypsies by the term Gypsy, which they allegedly do not accept. Gypsies and Tatars are in contact on business affairs and do not normally invite each others for feasts and social events. The relations between both ethnic groups are good. I was encouraged by Tatars to go to Gypsies and talk to them, for they are believed to maintain the Tatar language very well.
 
I don't know the reason for this, maybe its a regional thing or wanting to be an inclusive part of the majority community?
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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