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Documentray: Stolen Kosovo |
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Carpathian Wolf 
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BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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 Topic: Documentray: Stolen KosovoPosted: 28-Jun-2008 at 06:44 |
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The following map was issued in book "Yugoslavia, a Country Study", a publication printed by Headquarters, Department of Army, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC, Edition 1982, page 99.
 The maps show basically the same configurations of the ethnic groups. Most of all, note that "Serbian Orthodox" - here - spreads far to the West from Serbia proper and takes sizable portion of Tito designed "Croatia" and "Bosnia and Hercegovina". These Eastern Orthodox Serbs who reside in these areas at least four centuries, as majority population, would be called by the Western media - "conquerors", "landgrabbers", "aggressors" etc. for the mere fact that they defended their own houses and property. Edited by Carpathian Wolf - 28-Jun-2008 at 06:46 |
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 06:33 |
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Short excerpts from (different) encyclopediae: Encyclopedia Britannica, Edition 1946,...,1952 Necessity dictated in 1578 the formation of special provinces known as the "military frontiers" (q.v.) (Vojna Krajina) - the Slavonian between Drave and Kulpa with Varazdin as its centre, the Croatian between Kulpa and sea, with Karlovac (Karlstadt), so named after Archduke Charles of Styria, who held the supreme command. Their reincorporation was repeatedly demanded by the Croatian estates but without effect, and they RETAINED THEIR IDENTITY TILL LONG AFTER THE EXPULSION OF TURKS...
...in 1699... Karlovci was to be centre of the Serbian Orthodox Church, the patriarch of Pec', with thousands of Serbian refugees from Turkey, having settled in Slavonia and south Hungary under a special charter from Leopold I in 1690... ...In 1769, 1774 and 1776 Serbian national congress were allowed to meet in Karlovci, and again in 1790 at Temesvar, when Serb privileges were confirmed by Leopold II...
The Vojna Krajina (Militargrenze), a military frontier zone on Croatian territory, was formed in 1578. As THIS ZONE WAS SUBJECT DIRECTLY TO THE EMPEROR IN VIENNA, it meant further loss for the Croats. Turkish invasion instigated a partial change in the ethnic aspect of Croatian lands. Large numbers of Croats abandoned their homes and moved northward seeking safety, some even going out of Croatia altogether into Austria. In partly depopulated areas the rulers settled... ...or granted certain privileges to the Serbs who escaped from the Balkans and took refuge in the Vojna Krajina to became defenders of the Habsburg Empire. (End quote)
The Encyclopedia Americana, International Edition, year 1993 In 1578 the Habsburgs created the so-called Military Frontier, where peasants were granted land in return for military service. THE AREA WAS ADMINISTERED *DIRECTLY* FROM VIENNA, *NOT* FROM CROATIA,... (!!!)
Encyclopedia Britannica, Edition 1952 ...in 1527, after the defeat of Hungary by the Turks at Mohacs, southern Croatia was left deserted, its inhabitants having fled north before the Turks. The Austrian government built a series of forts in this zone, and organized the remaining population, with immigrant Serbs and Vlachs, into a defense force under military supervision... This organization was gradually extended, and in 1630 received a formal statute. By the end of the 17th century, there were three "Generalates," in Karlstadt (Karlovats), Warasdin and Petrinja respectively. The Hungarian and Croat Estates deeply resented the existence of this EXCEPTION FROM THEIR AUTHORITY, and constantly demanded its abolition, especially after Prince Eugene's victories had practically ended the Turkish peril, but the "Granzer" themselves RESISTED ANY CHANGE, and Habsburgs had also now become alive to its usefulness as a weapon against the unruly nobles. Instead of abolishing, they extended it: a new Slavonian district was established in 1702, a Szekler, in East Transylvania, in 1764, and Wallach in 1766. THE FRONTIER NOW RAN FROM THE ADRIATIC TO THE CONFINES OF MOLDAVIA. The "Grenzer" gradually became the backbone of the Austrian army. As its bravest, most loyal and best disciplined troops... In 1849 the Frontier was formed into a separate province, with an area of 15,182 sq.m., and a population of 1,220,503, MOSTLY SERB or Croat, with some Vlach or Rumanian... (End quote)
Encyclopedia Britannica, Edition 1990 A prominent feature of Austrian and Hungarian lands was the "Military Frontier" (Militargrenze), which dated from the first attempts to reclaim Croatia and Slavonia from the Turkish rule. In 1578 the Austrians began to organize frontier marchlands against the Turks with a system of forts, watchtowers, and warning beacons staffed by a force of granicari (frontiersmen). the granicari were granted land in frontier regions in return for military service. The system was reorganized and consolidated through the next two centuries, ... At its height it extended in a belt of varying widths across the entire northern border of the Ottoman Empire from the Adriatic coast to Walacia... Having been badly depopulated by Turkish raids, the Military Frontier was resettled largely by refugees of a variety of ethnic origins, but Serbs and Bosnians (*) contributed a large portion. Particularly important was the great migration in 1691, as a consequence of which the region came to contain some of the major centres of Serbian culture... The ethnic map of Yugoslavia today [1990] bears the marks of these migrations. (End quote) * - Note that the author could not think of "Bosnians" as Muslims as interpreted only two years later by the Western media. No-one would invite Muslims to fight against Muslim Turkish invaders. Obviously by "Bosnians" the author was referring to Bosnian Christians (i.e. Serbs and some Croats).
Short recapitulation: In order to defend their civilization, Chinese built the wall. In order to stop Islamic invasion of Europe, Habsburgs built a Military Frontier (Militargrenze in German, Vojna Krajina or simply KRAJINA in Serbo-Croatian). Serbs were the brave border guards of Christianity, for many centuries. Croatia, Slavonia, Dalmatia and Krajina were always separate, political and geographical entities. It was only in Nazi puppet Independent State of Croatia (1941 - 1945) and in Communist Yugoslavia (led by absolute authority of Croatian Communist Tito) that all these different entities were simply labeled - Croatia. Krajina, which for last four centuries was populated with majority Serbian population was never (with exception of the above mentioned periods) - ruled by Croatia. It is a prime sarcasm to call these Serbs - "Croatian" Serbs, as if they were, somehow, a property of Croatia. During the first (Nazi) period Serbs were slaughtered, en masse, by Croatian fascists ( Ustashe ). During Croatian Communist Tito's rule, Krajina was purposely left undeveloped. Despite the genocide, despite the hardships, the Serbs endured and were, still, majority population of Krajina. TILL AUGUST 1, 1995 - when with help of American equipent, training and aviation close support - AFTER FOUR CENTURIES THE SERBS WERE CLEANSED FROM THEIR LAND. THAT WAS, BY FAR, THE *LARGEST* ETHNIC CLEANSING KNOWN IN MODERN BALKAN HISTORY! Croatia, with conquered Serbian lands of Krajina, is *THE MOST ETHNICALLY PURE* COUNTRY of Europe!
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 06:28 |
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"I am reluctant to post in this thread because you have several people here defeating your points and you still have not come full circle. But half of your posts are so ignorant that I cannot help it. "
Oh yea clearly I offer UN documentation, encylopedia maps and various other sources and the others "defeated" my points with some vague BBC propagandist non sense.
I'll saw my right arm off and mail it to you if you actually read half of my posts. That last page is everything you need to be convinced of the truth and you won't even as much as gaze over it. You're living in your own fantasy world and the only people that agree with you are people that are anti Serbian. But it doesn't matter, i'm not argueing to "win" in your eyes, but for the other people who read this thread. Those will appriciate a truthful perspective.
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 06:25 |
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"Hahaha. So the guy with no guns or power in middle Sarajevo caused war and 70, 000 of his people to die? You are full of delusions. As far as Jugoslavia it was made according to historical regional lines."
Read the Bosniak general's testaments. They themselves said that Izetbegovic retreated many of the commanders out of Srebrenica and left only lower ranked ones. His cabinent members say that Clinton's diplomats told him to do this in order to gain 5,000 casualties so that he could intervene more directly. Izetbegovic himself in his book said that the creation of a Muslim state is the goal "NO MATTER WHO THE VICTIMS ARE." If the Bosniak generals and cabinet members themselves admit this, and this is documented, why do you deny it? This isn't like Al-Jassas' example of Joe Croat pretending to be a Serb to get out of trouble by lying. These were high ranking Bosniak generals and a cabinet member.
"And as far as Krajina - that is 100% Croatian territory that Serbs were minorities in."
Look at the map and don't be ignorant. Krajina has been Serb land since the 1500s when the Austrians moved Serbs in because it was empty. Look at the two maps I provided. That is from Encyclopedia Britannica and National Geographic. The largest act of ethnic cleansing since World War 2 happened in Krajina against the Serbs during Operations Flash and Storm. Look at the maps for yourself. "As far as RS that is 100% Bosnian territory where Bosnian Serbs lived in equilibrium with Catholics and Muslims until they kicked and killed almost everyone out."
This is complete non-sense. Let's have a look at the map.  You don't even know the geography of your own country. You can look at the previous maps and see for yourself that Serbs have been the ones being kicked out of their lands. Look at the North West section of the map. Look at all those Serbs that are majority but not part of the RS.
"Izetbegovic did not cause the massacre. I do not agree that he should have been president. Abdic should have been president and Izetbegovic and Karadzic should have been suspended as minority members of the council. But to say he caused the massacre that is funny. And actually I know persons from Srebrenica who actually have seen this and are missing entire male side of their families. "
Let's look at another map from the Texas University:
 Izetbegovic caused the "massacre" when he refused to allow the 285th Bosniak unit to fight against the Serbs. When he allowed the western powers to re-arm Naser Oric's men in Srebrenica (as documented, I have posted this already) that allowed Naser Oric's men to rape and kill in order to draw the Serbs in. He caused it by pulling away the command before the Serbs' attack so there would be casualties, at least 5,000 as Izetbegovic's generals and cabinet members SAY SO THEMSELVES.
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 05:39 |
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I am reluctant to post in this thread because you have several people here defeating your points and you still have not come full circle. But half of your posts are so ignorant that I cannot help it.
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 05:38 |
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Hahaha. So the guy with no guns or power in middle Sarajevo caused war and 70, 000 of his people to die? You are full of delusions. As far as Jugoslavia it was made according to historical regional lines. Hence why Kosovo and Voivodina were paired with Serbia but given autonomy due to high minority numbers. And as far as Krajina - that is 100% Croatian territory that Serbs were minorities in. As far as RS that is 100% Bosnian territory where Bosnian Serbs lived in equilibrium with Catholics and Muslims until they kicked and killed almost everyone out. After the dayton accords the Serb Republic as part of Bosnia still holds half of the territory officially when they constitute only about 35-7% of the territory. Not to mention that most of it had been lost by 95 and was taken away from the Cro-Bosnian federation.
Izetbegovic did not cause the massacre. I do not agree that he should have been president. Abdic should have been president and Izetbegovic and Karadzic should have been suspended as minority members of the council. But to say he caused the massacre that is funny. And actually I know persons from Srebrenica who actually have seen this and are missing entire male side of their families. |
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 28-Jun-2008 at 00:01 |
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"The guy I talk about is David Binder. You quoted his earlier remember."
What of him? Could you please attempt to formulate a complete thought and then go forth and express it for us all? You're manner of communication is in-efficient and vexing.
"And even if they raped and murdered, have they been tried in a court of law?"
They were found to be guilty. The UN report that I have posted the intro to is proof enough. If you would stop typing so often and read more I wouldn't be wasting my time repeating something i've already gone over.
"Was there any proof of their crimes?"
Yes.
"what were the type of their crime?"
Please actually read my post in the previous page. Again try to be more efficient with our time.
"All what we know is they were citizens of a safe area designated by the UN, accepted by Serbians and the Serbs INVADED their territory, so if they were guilty of anything they were guilty of defending themselves and this is their right according to the Geneva conventions and the Serbs had no right in the world to execute them no matter what was the reason."
This quote is obvious you did not read anything I posted. You continue to badger me with your western media out let news. Srebrenica was a Serbian town previously until WW2 and the villages around it were Serbian. I provided the information that proves that. The crimes of Naser Oric and his men were also detailed in my previous post. I can not force feed you the information. Had we been on a different forum perhaps I could speak more directly, but that line of actions here would prove pointless. "Please read the testimonies of Serb officers who participated in the massacre, the Dutch genocide keepers who watched and drunk the health of Mladic while the people they supposed to protect were being herded and massacred:"
I am so glad you brought him up. Drazen was a war criminal but he had never fought in Srebrenica. He was a Croatian soldier and he commited war crimes in the war on the side of the Croatian army. The way the Hague trial is set up such as this: If you can testify of war crimes against Milosevic, your war crimes are forgiven or your sentence is lowered. Drazen was no more happy then to say he was at Srebrenica in exchange for his crimes. I'll refer you to "Witness L." Go study up on that. "Also I think there is enough mass graves of boys who couldn't rape and can't carry guns are more than sufficient:"
Mass graves themselves don't prove any crime. In wars there is no time to go bury each person individually. When Naser Oric's men took civilians with them north and were ambushed in combat there were a lot of casualties. But again you didn't read about the testimony from the Bosniak commanders on ground. "Even Milosovic himself doesn't deny the existance of the massacre which you do:"
I don't deny the existance of massacres either. And I feel very sorry for them. Sorry for the Serbs that had to live under Naser Oric all those years. How a truley evil monster was allowed to run freely and proudly slaughtered civilians. Perhaps BBC confused which massacre. Of course an accident. "As do Bosnian Serbs"
This is non sense. The Bosnian Serbs are afraid of admiting there was a massacre? Where do they find out things like that? Some western puppet spouting non sense isn't the admition of a nation and flies directly in the face of all the evidence.
"Also, it was the Serbs who started the hostilities in the beginning not the Bosniacs in Srebrenica and other places,"
Izetbegovic was the one that forced himself into power and told the Serbs in Bosnia they had to live under him.
"it was the Serbs who started killing civilian long before any retaliation of kind was done, every UN investigation proved that no more than 650 Serb civilians died between 1992 and 1995 and the Serbs, who claim 3000+ in Srebrenica and Bratunac yet they failed to prove that claim beyond the 650 proved by the UN. The first confirmed attack by Bosniacs on Serbs in Srebrenica was in may 6th 92, a full two months AFTER Serbs started the war and the mass killing and deportation of muslims started. "
Read my full post. I don't know why you can't just read it and yet you continue to speak. People who only like to speak their arguements and do not listen to others are ignorant, and probably shouldn't shame themselves by speaking. That is my judgement. You agree don't you?
I'll ask you directly. Did you read my posts in full?
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Al Jassas
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Joined: 07-Aug-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 23:05 |
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The guy I talk about is David Binder. You quoted his earlier remember.
As for the video, again, the Serbian government tried to stop the video's release and tried some of the guys involved and sentenced them, if this is not an admission to guilt then what is?
And even if they raped and murdered, have they been tried in a court of law? Was there any proof of their crimes? what were the type of their crime? All what we know is they were citizens of a safe area designated by the UN, accepted by Serbians and the Serbs INVADED their territory, so if they were guilty of anything they were guilty of defending themselves and this is their right according to the Geneva conventions and the Serbs had no right in the world to execute them no matter what was the reason.
Please read the testimonies of Serb officers who participated in the massacre, the Dutch genocide keepers who watched and drunk the health of Mladic while the people they supposed to protect were being herded and massacred:
Also I think there is enough mass graves of boys who couldn't rape and can't carry guns are more than sufficient:
Even Milosovic himself doesn't deny the existance of the massacre which you do:
As do Bosnian Serbs
Now I brought you admission from people directly involved and you still argue with dubios reports and testimonies contradicted by the overwhelming evidence that already exist?
What is worse than the devil is the devil's advocate. This is my judgment.
Also, it was the Serbs who started the hostilities in the beginning not the Bosniacs in Srebrenica and other places, it was the Serbs who started killing civilian long before any retaliation of kind was done, every UN investigation proved that no more than 650 Serb civilians died between 1992 and 1995 and the Serbs, who claim 3000+ in Srebrenica and Bratunac yet they failed to prove that claim beyond the 650 proved by the UN. The first confirmed attack by Bosniacs on Serbs in Srebrenica was in may 6th 92, a full two months AFTER Serbs started the war and the mass killing and deportation of muslims started.
Al-Jassas
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 19:53 |
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"Then why the hell you quoted the guy in the first place? The guy is an expert on Yoguslavia, he has been reporting on the country particularly for some 20 years, like Tom Gjelten of NPR, he is sympathetic to the Serbs, not openly and not to the point of fanaticism."
What guy?
"As for the Videos, well, i would proudly say to you that these videos were provided by non other than the Serbian government itself which lobbied everywhere to stop Del Ponte from publically sharing it with the world. Any blind guy knows these were no more than teenagers and the Serbs themselves admitted that and tried two of the excecuters. There are much more horrible videos about what happened in Bosnia, just go to youtube and print "Serb massacres"."
Lobbied to stop the world from seeing them? This is complete non sense. And so what if they are teenagers? Teenagers can kill too. They can slaughter, they can rape, they can do everything. If i caught someone doing those things in my country i'd have executed them too. Look at the UN ducomentation and reports concerning the slaughter at Srebrenica by Naser Oric's men. You have obviously skipped it and that is going to be repeated until you actually read it.
"Yes, many things were completely wrong in Titos time and before but the problems could have been solved easily. Rogova asked for a democratic free government with autonomy in 1990. He and Albania negotiators were willing to give a third of Kosovo before the war started including the richest valleys and mineral sites but Serbs had other thoughts, they, rather the nationalist element, started the troubles refusing to share the army and its resources, using it to advance the interests of one nation (Serbia) and dangerous incidents that occured. Later wrong things did happen to Serbia most importantely the ethnic cleansing at the hand of the Croats but you reap what you saw and the Serbs, Milosovic particularly started the problems and the Serbs suffered. Look at Macedonia, the Macedonians realized that there were indeed issues that the Albanian needed to be adressed and now when they adressed them rather than use the heavy handed tacticts of Serbia the issue solved itself albeit it is still not topsy turvey but its going on well and the idea of greater Albania is far from being on the table."
The nationalistic elements at hand were the KLA. They were the number 1 reason peace was not possible in Kosovo.
"As for Srebrenica and what really happened, well, there is no better proof than the 7000 page report that led to the fall of the Dutch government in 2002. If any report should be biased it should be this one yet this report compiled by military experts, politicians and interviewing every one connected with the massacre including Serbs as far as I know. This report answers all the objections you put and gives full and undoubted proof on what was really the situation there."
Funny I have a UN document in my post along with all various other sources even the Bosniaks themselves agree with me and not you. So again once you read that then we'll talk. |
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Al Jassas
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Joined: 07-Aug-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 18:24 |
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Then why the hell you quoted the guy in the first place? The guy is an expert on Yoguslavia, he has been reporting on the country particularly for some 20 years, like Tom Gjelten of NPR, he is sympathetic to the Serbs, not openly and not to the point of fanaticism. As for the Videos, well, i would proudly say to you that these videos were provided by non other than the Serbian government itself which lobbied everywhere to stop Del Ponte from publically sharing it with the world. Any blind guy knows these were no more than teenagers and the Serbs themselves admitted that and tried two of the excecuters. There are much more horrible videos about what happened in Bosnia, just go to youtube and print "Serb massacres". Yes, many things were completely wrong in Titos time and before but the problems could have been solved easily. Rogova asked for a democratic free government with autonomy in 1990. He and Albania negotiators were willing to give a third of Kosovo before the war started including the richest valleys and mineral sites but Serbs had other thoughts, they, rather the nationalist element, started the troubles refusing to share the army and its resources, using it to advance the interests of one nation (Serbia) and dangerous incidents that occured. Later wrong things did happen to Serbia most importantely the ethnic cleansing at the hand of the Croats but you reap what you saw and the Serbs, Milosovic particularly started the problems and the Serbs suffered. Look at Macedonia, the Macedonians realized that there were indeed issues that the Albanian needed to be adressed and now when they adressed them rather than use the heavy handed tacticts of Serbia the issue solved itself albeit it is still not topsy turvey but its going on well and the idea of greater Albania is far from being on the table.
As for Srebrenica and what really happened, well, there is no better proof than the 7000 page report that led to the fall of the Dutch government in 2002. If any report should be biased it should be this one yet this report compiled by military experts, politicians and interviewing every one connected with the massacre including Serbs as far as I know. This report answers all the objections you put and gives full and undoubted proof on what was really the situation there. Unfotunately I don't know of an english copy but here is a summary by the BBC:
AL-Jassas
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 16:54 |
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HEROI:
Then I guess the Bosniak generals that they themselves say were betrayed by Izetbegovic should be banned from these forums too?  Of his cabinet members that talk about how the American diplomats told Izetbegovic that Clinton needs some 5,000 victims before he can get involved? Here's an idea. Don't talk type, but read. Then type.Al-Jassas:
First you have to make a point. Those articles show a poor understanding of Yugoslav politics. For example when Milosevic took the presidency of Voivodina away you have to ask yourself, why did Voivodina even have a president? Why is it that Tito made Yugoslavian boarders so that 46 percent of the Serbs lived outside of Serbia itself? Why were all these Serbian regions made autonomous? Because he wanted to split up the Serbian majority and keep his sense of "balance." But you don't know that, because you don't care to read the history in depth about it do you? Instead you just read an article with poor history and make up your mind. The first few vids you posted wouldn't load for me but the last few did. First off how do you know those men executed weren't fighters? If you have detailed information on the people you are fighting, if they are war criminals such as Naser Oric's men in Srebrenica you can execute those in a summery execution. Secondly, I never said Serbs didn't do bad things. I just said it was grossly exagirated while the other sides were almost ignored. Thirdly, the priest part is really lame. Priests bless everyone who goes fighting. You trying to portray it as "Orthodox priest blesses people to murder!" Is really just lame and a weak point.
I already gave you the sources. Go read through that. Those are sources from all over. The Bosniaks themselves say the same thing I am saying.
vranakonti:
Thank you for the propaganda. That is exactly what propaganda is. What did Mladic mean? Well it is left up to the listener to make up their mind. You and the other anti serbs will believe he meant genocide and a massacre. But i guess it is easier to see 20 seconds of video out of context then to take 20 or so minutes to read the sources I posted.
Go ahead read it. See for yourself if you can deny it. Take ANY part of that. Recopy and paste it and let's discuss it.
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vranakonti
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Joined: 11-Jun-2007 Location: Albania Online Status: Offline Posts: 117 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 11:53 |
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Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
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Al Jassas
Arch Duke
Joined: 07-Aug-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 11:43 |
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Hello Carpathian
I think you missed my point entirely haven't you, anyway, I suggest you should read the NYtimes articles by the same guy who wrote the Albanian article you posted earlier.
Anyway, here are videos since a picture is worth a thousand words:
and of course the famous "Scorpions" death squad video where the Orthodox priest blessed the combatants, and the Scorpion branch of the Republic of yoguslavia, where good hearted merciful peace lover Milsovic was president:
the soldiers were also Serbian and even the Serb government tried them, because Surprisingly
 , they were citizens of Serbia from the start, its funny that you are even more Serbian than Milosovic himself:Anyway, something tells me that you really don't want to believe, so to make things straight, give me a short list of the sources you trust and their form, since obviously you have an issue with each proof that strikes down your argument even if it was a video, and I will prove to you using your own provided sources my point.
Al-Jassas
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HEROI
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Joined: 06-Jul-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 468 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 10:20 |
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And one more thing,Denying the Srebrenica massacre,and not only that bu blaming Bosniacs and NATO for that,is like denying the Holocoust and blaming the Allies and the Jews for doing that. I wonder if anybody opens a topic doing that wether it will or it should be allowed to get away with such crap. |
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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HEROI
Baron
Joined: 06-Jul-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 468 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 10:18 |
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I dont know if there is an admin here,how can you allow this kid to completely kill the topic,with this long and completely out of touch copy and paste postings.
It seams the All empire History forum is becoming the all Propaganda history forum,but only some kind of selective propaganda allowed.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Carpathian Wolf
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BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:38 |
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Could and admin take all of that and put it in a thread here? I would be very greatful, thank you very much.
I doubt the people who've already made up their mind will read all of that but for the ones who want to inform themselves on the truth I am sure it will help them. These are some of the sources I used when I believed the Serbs were guilty. The sources make their own arguement. I've quoted sources for all over the world from all points of view. The testimony of the Bosniak generals is really good as well as the UN Officers.
So es_bih after you take some time to read that you can try to make an arguement. But at this point after you've read it (which I hope you do, it would be sad if a Romanian living in America takes more interest in your country then you do) I doubt you can really argue. I was in your position before and when I saw all the facts laid out on the table, there wasn't anything I could really argue against.
Why don't you sleep on it and read it all when you have time, then we can discuss again.
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Carpathian Wolf
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:33 |
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"Srebrenica was a sacrificial lamb"
says Muslim official from Srebrenica --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scenario for the betrayal of Srebrenica was consciously prepared by the Bosnian Muslim leadership.
The following is the interview with Ibran Mustafic, founder of SDA in Srebrenica (The Bosnian Muslim party led by war criminal Alija Izetbegovic). Please read carefully what this Muslim representative has to say about Srebrenica's "safe area". Who ordered suicidal attack on the Serbs? Who betrayed and sacrificed Srebrenica Muslims?
The following article was published in Slobodna Bosna, an Independent Bosnian Muslim Magazine, Sarajevo, Bosnia-Hercegovina, on July 14, 1996.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ibran Mustafic, representative in Bosnian and Federal Parliaments, founder of SDA in Srebrenica and the captive of the Serb Army after the fall of this town, talks about the events about which he had unsuccessfully tried to speak in the Bosnian Parliament.
S.B.: Who are the people you accuse and the people you don't trust?
Ibran Mustafic: Scenario for the betrayal of Srebrenica was consciously prepared. Unfortunately, the Bosnian presidency and the Army command were involved in this business; if you want the names, figure it out yourself. I understood the situation in Srebrenica and, you can trust me on this, had I not been prevented by a group of criminals, many more inhabitants of Srebrenica would be alive today. Had I received an order to attack the Serb army from the demilitarized zone, I would have rejected to carry out that order without thinking and would have asked the person who had issued that order to bring his family to Srebrenica so that I can give him a gun and let him stage attacks from the demilitarized zone. I knew that such shameful, calculated moves were leading my people to a catastrophe. The orders came from Sarajevo and Kakanj.
S.B.: What were the consequences of the attacks staged from the demilitarized zone for the inhabitants of Srebrenica?
Ibran Mustafic: That was a conscious giving of a pretext to the Serb forces to attack the demilitarized zone.
S.B.: Who in Srebrenica accepted to carry out those orders?
Mr. Mustafic: Those individuals who, in the Summer of 1995, without a scratch left Srebrenica (...). It is well known that that team managed to get out and take with along the elderly, children and horses. I can only thank God, that a number of honest people and patriots managed to get out with them. (...) According to our custom when someone finishes the foundations for a house, an animal must be slaughtered on top of them. It seems that Srebrenica was a sacrificial lamb for the foundation of this [Muslim] state.
S.B.: Do you think that the events would have been different had Srebrenica truly be demilitarized?
Mr. Mustafic: Had some people then, or later, in 1994 and 1995 accepted to evacuate the people and to concede the territory, that would have represented the public division of Bosnia. It seems that they want to divide this state in a secret, perfidious way.
S.B.: Who are you talking about?
Mr. Mustafic: About the official [Muslim] authorities.
S.B.: Why wasn't then, as you suggest, Srebrenica surrendered in 1993? What was the goal of such "games" with Srebrenica?
Mr. Mustafic: The basic goal of that game was the illusionary freedom of Sarajevo and the Bihac region. What hurts the most is the attitude towards the survivors from the Drina valley who were in Srebrenica in July 1995. Present attitude of the authorities towards those people is enough to convince me that the authorities expected that the number of the survivors would be smaller; it seems that the number of survivors is too high for their calculations. They made me say this: "It seems you are afraid of living Srebrenica inhabitants."
S.B.: What makes you say that?
Mr. Mustafic: In the Bosnian Parliament, I initiated the formation of a special committee whose task would be to search for the survivors from the enclave (I claim that there are survivors!). There are certainly quite a few survivors from Srebrenica. I am convinced that at least someone out of those men who were separated in Potocari, among whom I was, must have survived, if I have survived. Otherwise, they wouldn't have released me as a witness. Secondly, when the column which was trying to get out of Srebrenica was cut in half, the privileged team, which I mentioned earlier and which had a permission to get out of the enclave, simply continued and kept throwing fliers behind them; the majority of the people was so confused that they simply surrendered in huge numbers. I personally believe that the majority surrendered alive.
S.B.: Who was throwing fliers, and what was on those fliers?
Mr. Mustafic: They left behind them signs saying that the terrain was mined in order to confuse the people who had been following them as much as possible. The column was cut, people were out of their minds. I talked to a lot of people who came from Srebrenica without injuries and didn't belong to that team; when they told me about what happened on the way, I was outraged. I cannot even think about that, let alone speak; these things are horrible.
S.B.: Do you think there is no will to find those people?
Mr. Mustafic: The fact that in the Bosnian Parliament no one has asked me about that is enough to demonstrate that no one cares about that.
S.B.: You suggested something else in the Parliament.
Mr. Mustafic: I suggested that a special fund be formed in order to assist the people who have survived that catastrophe. Unfortunately, when I spoke about that, prime minister Muratovic had left the hall, as if he had had a premonition that he shouldn't hear that. I think that a lot of money has been collected for Srebrenica and is flowing into the Federal, cantonal and other budgets. I believe that the authorities, from cantonal over Federal to republican, have benefited much more from those funds than the people for whose use the funds had been supposedly earmarked. I've heard that the Srebrenica authorities had received more that DM 2 million a few months ago. How are they using those funds, I don't know.
S.B.: Therefore, this state hasn't fulfilled its obligations towards the refugees from Srebrenica?
Mr. Mustafic: After all, taking into account the local situation, we have to ask ourselves whether this is a state after all. Take Srebrenica for example. No one from Srebrenica has been arrested in this state. And I claim that a good number of people from Srebrenica should have been arrested by now. They are still showing off, though.
S.B.: What kind of crimes are you talking about?
Mr. Mustafic: The authorities in Srebrenica were not set up in accordance with the Constitution; it was private matter of a group of individuals. One could write pages and pages about looting, murders, terror, pressures, maltreatment and other events in [Naser Oric controlled] Srebrenica. (...) In Srebrenica, it was always possible to buy at the market anything one might have wanted. Hardly anything was lacking. Still the only source of goods was humanitarian aid. Since not one commercial convoy had ever reached Srebrenica. Some people established contacts across the frontline, but as soon as the official authorities heard about that, that someone had managed to buy something at a lower price, they would intervene immediately, since they wanted to be the only source for supplies and hold a monopoly in Srebrenica.
S.B.: You were the victim of two assassination attempts.
Mr. Mustafic: Yes, I was. The first attempt on my life was made on may 25, 1993, when someone fired a mortar shell from 20 meters away at a room in which I slept at the time. That shell destroyed the room, but I, thank God, wasn't hurt. The second attempt occured on May 19 1995. I was with the former Srebrenica police commander, Hamed Halilovic. He died in that assassination while I received serious injuries. A whole frame was fired at me. When the assassins realized that I was still alive, they fired a bullet in my head from point blank range. I was severely wounded and consider that to be a double attempt at my life.
S.B.: Who were the attackers?
Mr. Mustafic: The Srebrenica police commander at the time, Hakija Mehuljic, should know. I can say that the people from the top of Srebrenica authorities were involved in that assassination(...). That team which was in Srebrenica gathered around it only uneducated people. They killed "brains" to get rid of potential competition. As an example, I'll mention the case of Nurif Rizvanovic. He came from Tuzla to Konjevic Polje in the summer of 1992 with 450 soldiers; the soldiers were in uniforms, armed and well trained. Rizvanovic, only because he was potential competition to someone, was shamefully executed in the fall of 1992. That is the reflection of everything that happened in Srebrenica and around it.
S.B.: At the beginning of our interview you mentioned that your goal is to reveal the truth about Srebrenica.
Mr. Mustafic: Let me again mention that session of the Bosnian parliament. At that session it was clear who was hiding the truth about Srebrenica. My foremost task is to stay safe and secure in this state. If something happens to me, the authorities will be responsible.(...)
S.B.: How do you see the present situation and the solution for the people from Srebrenica?
Mr. Mustafic: We are in this state 10th class citizens, left to fend for ourselves. I hope that this people will recognize current political situation and I think that their situation can only improve after the elections. The elections should bring some new people who can appreciate people and human values. The complete ruling team has failed at that test.
S.B.: The Drina valley inhabitants are in the news because of another problem - moving into Serb houses in the suburbs of Sarajevo. What does the Dayton Agreement bring to them, in view of those events? Can we hope for a return?
Mr. Mustafic: The official policy is consciously working for the division of Bosnia-Hercegovina. I will repeat my words from the Parliament: I'm convinced that the Serbs would have signed the Dayton Agreement in 1991 or 1992, without a single bullet. I don't think that people should be forced against their will to live together (...). The only possibility for the survival of the Muslim-Bosniak people is to return to the Drina. If we accept this persecution, I am convinced that my sons, who I hope to have one day, will have to go farther. As far as moving into other people's homes is concerned, Srebrenica people hadn't left tents behind them. We need accommodations. Let them return our property and we will return to Srebrenica. And we also want to be told what happened with our missing men.
S.B.: Are there any new developments regarding that?
Mr. Mustafic: Taking into account that a lot of lies are circulating in this state, one can not trust anyone. I found out through some people who are close to the Croatian secret service who in their turn have contacts with Serb secret service, that some 5,600 Srebrenica inhabitants are still alive and held in different locations. Recently, Ms. Merhunisa Komarica has told me that she had received some data from the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights which mention 4,500 people. I am ready to go anywhere and negotiate with anyone in order to win the release of a single person from Srebrenica. I prefer two living Srebrenica inhabitants to dead Radovan Karadzic. Finally, I would publicly state that some men are still alive. The fact that the precise number of missing is still not known, demonstrates how much the state cares about those people.
S.B.: Do you wish to add something at the end of our conversation?
Mr. Mustafic: I read the latest issue of [Muslim daily] Ljiljan last night. I buy that magazine in order to check what the current official policy is. Anyway, I read that Mr. Silajdzic [leader of the Party for Bosnia-Hercegovina, former Bosnian prime minister] is gathering around himself corrupt officials. Among others, I found my name. My greatest sin, as far as Ljiljan is concerned, is that I got out of the Serb prisons alive. I should have died. They don't appreciate living people. They only appreciate the dead because they cannot talk. They should consider two assassination attempts I survived in Srebrenica. If they are true believers and if their religion is not a mask (...). I am a Muslim and a believer. With my faith, I joined the people who do not spread fear in this state, do not support looting, who support truth, who do not advocate violence and support the rule of law. I haven't heard of a Muslim country in the world in which Islam stands for something bad. Only their [SDA] version of Islam advocates crime, murders, lies, looting etc. If they want to advocate that sort of Islam, let them go and present it somewhere else, not to this people who don't deserve to soil its faith.
The above quote is from:
"Slobodna Bosna," an Independent Bosnian Muslim Magazine, Sarajevo, Bosnia-Hercegovina, July 14, 1996 =================== Refuting the Srebrenica Myth: An Islamist Perspective
By Konstantin Kilibarda "The international press…made the battle for Srebrenica sound like Stalingrad. There is a kind of dialectical relation between the attention of a great power and the power of the media. It creates a distortion in our work. What I am trying to do, without great success, is to correct this distortion."- Comments by UN Secretary General Boutros-Boutros Ghali at the time of Srebrenica's capture by Bosnian Serb troops. For all intents and purposes the "Srebrenica Massacre" has become for many advocates of the "New Interventionism" the sine qua non of the Western presence in the Balkans. The notion that the Bosnian Serb Army or Vojska Republike Srpske (VRS) organized and executed a premeditated slaughter of 7,000 unarmed Bosnian Muslim civilian males has become a crucial element in portraying Serbs, collectively, as genocidal aggressors.
However, one need not look too deep, or even to the Serbian side, for another, non-CNN, perspective on this chapter of the Balkan story. A completely different narrative emerges from within the ranks of the Armija Bosne i Hercegovine (ARBiH), in other words the army of the US-backed Islamist faction in Bosnia.
There exists strong evidence that the United States and the pro-American leadership in Sarajevo conspired to manufacture the appearance of a massacre in Srebrenica with the ultimate objective of provoking Western intervention. A precedent for such a scenario is well documented in the BBC's 'Death of Yugoslavia' in which Germany is shown to have deliberately engineered the 'fall' of the town of Vukovar in order to gain support for the neo-fascist Croatian secessionists in late 1991.
About That Odd Tangent in Mr. Annan's Srebrenica Report…
In UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's recently released report on Srebrenica an astute reader might spot a curious tangent that is never explored by Annan. This tangent, and critical omissions within it, hold the key to understanding the complex nature of events that later transpired in the Drina Valley in the summer of 1995.
Describing the deliberations of the Izetbegovic regime over the Contact Group's peace initiative, introduced aboard the HMS Invincible in the summer of 1993, the UN Report conveys the following information:
"115. Representatives of the Bosniac community gathered in Sarajevo on 28 and 29 September to vote on the peace package. A delegation of Bosniacs from Srebrenica was transported to Sarajevo by UNPROFOR [UN forces in Bosnia] helicopter to participate in the debate. Prior to the meeting, the delegation met in private with [Bosnian] President Izetbegovic, who told them that there were Serb proposals to exchange Srebrenica and Zepa for territories around Sarajevo. The delegation opposed the idea, and the subject was not discussed further. Some surviving members of the Srebrenica delegation have stated that President Izetbegovic also told them he had learned that a NATO intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina was possible, but could only occur if the Serbs were to break into Srebrenica, killing at least 5,000 of its people."(My emphasis)
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/safe.htm#115 This would normally be a rather strange assertion for a head of government but it is not so strange coming from Alija Izetbegovic. It is well established that Izetbegovic's own party, the SDA, specialized in staged mortar attacks on civilians which were then blamed on Bosnian Serb forces. This operational tactic of the Sarajevo regime's Special Forces (AID) was designed to gain sympathy and invite NATO intervention on behalf of the Izetbegovic regime. This strategy has been confirmed not only by members of the ARBiH but also by many diplomats in the region, including chief negotiator Lord Owen and several UNPROFOR force commanders in Bosnia, such as General Satish Nambiar of India, General Louis Mackenzie of Canada, and General Michael Rose of Great Britain. A similar deceit on the scale of Srebrenica was not without precedent. As mentioned earlier, an analogous 'sacrifice' had already occurred in Croatia. The ruling Croatian neo-fascist HDZ had decided, at a critical juncture in the battle over Vukovar, not to send necessary reinforcements to the city. This was done on the instructions of Bonn in order to gain maximum propaganda value when, as was inevitable, superior Yugoslav forces retook the city. A similar scenario could therefore ostensibly be engineered between the Sarajevo regime and their handlers in Washington in order to produce a similar propaganda effect.
By mid-1995 the Clinton Administration had already succeeded in fulfilling major US-foreign policy objectives in the Balkans by ending the Muslim-Croat War in Central Bosnia, by forging an anti-Serbian, Muslim-Croat military and political alliance, by increasing military support for these pro-Western belligerents, and by securing UN Security Council approval for limited air-strikes against Bosnian Serb positions.
However British, French, German and Russian foreign policy establishments wavered on the question of full-blown NATO intervention against the Serbs for complex domestic-political reasons. The already firmly anti-Serbian position of the Contact Group had to be further instilled in the general populace before a full-blown NATO intervention could be launched against the Serbs. Such an intervention would invariably include changing the 'facts on the ground' and would involve large-scale Western-backed ethnic-cleansing of Serbian populations throughout Croatia and large swaths of Bosnia. In order to sustain such a criminal enterprise the West needed to demonize the Serbs to such an extent that their large scale victimization would only be greeted with, at best, a "now they're getting a taste of their own medicine" response among the general public.
Clinton's Modest Proposal…
Although Izetbegovic has denied making the above statement about the possibility of NATO intervention in the wake of Srebrenica’s capture by the Serbian army, the allegations have persisted in the Bosnian press. In fact there is an added twist to the story. This additional information appeared in a June 22nd, 1998 interview with Hakija Meholjic in the Bosnian weekly DANI. Meholjic had been Srebrenica's chief of police. Together with Naser Oric he spearheaded anti-Serbian pogroms in the Drina Valley. Meholjic was present at the Sept. 28th and 29th, 1993 meetings in Sarajevo. He was present when Serbian forces took Srebrenica in 1995. According to Meholjic, Izetbegovic had said:
"'You know, I was offered by Clinton in April 1993 (after the fall of Cerska and Konjevic Polje) that the Chetnik forces enter Srebrenica, carry out a slaughter of 5,000 Muslims, and then there will be a military intervention.' [Meholjic then continues] Our delegation was composed of nine people, one among us was from Bratunac and unfortunately he is the only one not alive now, but all the others from the delegation are alive and can confirm this." (My emphasis. 'DANI', June 22, 1998. The text can be read in English at http://www.cdsp.neu.edu/info/students/marko/dani/dani2.html and in the original Serbo-Croatian at http://www.bhdani.com/arhiva/980678/tekst278.htm )
Thus in contrast with the UN report, it is clearly stated that none other than US President Bill Clinton had personally suggested that a "Srebrenica Massacre" scenario would produce NATO intervention on behalf of the ARBiH. Hakija Meholjic and the hardcore Srebrenica militants in the ARBiH to this day insist that "everybody betrayed us" and are determined to press for an inquiry. Srebrenica's Troubled Demons
Although designated a UN protected 'safe-haven' (which was supposed to mean complete demilitarization) in 1993, it is abundantly clear that the Srebrenica enclave continued to be filled with heavily armed ARBiH units through 1995. Various intelligence reports estimate that between 1,500-5,000 ARBiH troops were stationed in the enclave when it was captured by the VRS on July 12, 1995.
The UN protected 'safe-haven' was used as a de facto launching pad for ARBiH attacks on surrounding Serbian villages and civilians. Thus the real tragedy was the UN's failure to protect the entire civilian population of the Drina Valley by failing to demilitarize the enclave.
The ARBiH units stationed in Srebrenica were quite militant and uncompromising in their attitude towards Serbs, whom they invariably viewed as "Chetnik aggressors". It is not surprising that an alternate scenario about Srebrenica's fall emerges from the ARBiH soldiers in the enclave itself. They were instrumental in spreading fear in the surrounding countryside by carrying out brutal attacks on undefended Serbian villages. For these Bosnian Islamist nationalists the whole Srebrenica scenario that played out in the Western media after the enclave's fall was profoundly injurious to the reputations of these 'defenders' of the 'Bosniac' people.
In fact in the days before the enclaves fall, key figures in Srebrenica were called out of the enclave. Factional fighting, confirmed by Dutch peacekeepers on the ground, erupted between ARBiH factions over the ultimate fate of Srebrenica. The cause of their dispute was not only whether or not to abandon the town to the small advancing VRS forces, but also stemmed from complex political struggles within the ARBiH and the SDA. The struggle was a result of long-standing tensions between locally unpopular Izetbegovic loyalists, who took into consideration the situation in all of Bosnia, and those local leaders more narrowly committed to 'defending' Srebrenica. What becomes clear from the picture, however, was that Izetbegovic was willing to bargain away Srebrenica in order to achieve full control of Sarajevo (most of which - barring the Serbian sections - being already in the hands of his inner-circle). Srebrenica was therefore politically expendable to Izetbegovic, and it is increasingly evident that he exploited it for maximum political advantage. With one deft political maneuver he could not only eliminate popular elements within his own party that weren’t beholden to his directives but at the same time invite Western military intervention against the hated 'Chetnik aggressor'.
In a January 18th, 1999 interview with 'DANI', Nesib Buric, former member of an ARBiH battalion stationed in Srebrenica, and now Deputy Mayor for Social Security of War Veterans and Disabled Persons in Srebrenica, clearly summed-up the perspective of the local Srebrenica faction within the ARBiH:
"I know that they are now trying to humiliate people from Srebrenica and spread rumors that we supposedly did not fight and were slain while running away from Srebrenica. No one can deny that in the Srebrenica municipality there are 2,000 buried fighters. No one can deny that we set up a large free territory. However, without assistance from outside we could not hold out for long surrounded by the enemy. You can write that I absolutely support the statement by Hakija Meholjic that we were betrayed. Why does not someone refute his assertions with arguments? Instead they are using slander and saying that Hakija was like this and like that. Hakija was among the first people in Srebrenica to pick up a rifle and work on the organization of the resistance. Therefore, he has the right to speak up. Ibran Mustafic and those women do not have the right to make lists for the Hague Tribunal. They do not have any evidence for that. In Srebrenica, Ibran refused to fight and lead a brigade, but turned to his prewar flirt with politics. As far as Hakija is concerned, you can write that every single child from Srebrenica agrees with his statement." ( My emphasis. English translation of the text from 'DANI' can be read at http://www.cdsp.neu.edu/info/students/marko/dani/dani6.html Original text in Serbo-Croatian can be read at http://www.bhdani.com/arhiva/1999/93/tekst393.htm )
In short the Islamist veterans from Srebrenica make a three-fold claim, that: 1) A high-level political decision was made between the leadership in Sarajevo and the Clinton Administration on the fate of the Srebrenica enclave,
2) That the ARBiH militants in the enclave were betrayed by the Izetbegovic regime during the critical days in mid-June 1995 when the enclave was recaptured by the Bosnian Serb army, and that
3) Those killed in Srebrenica were ARBiH soldiers who died during firefights while defending their positions, not fleeing civilians.
Any version of events that doesn't seriously consider this perspective on Srebrenica is designed to deliberately mislead public opinion on the dynamics of the conflict in the Balkans. By obscuring the real facts and presenting a simple scenario about Srebrenica, the Western foreign policy establishment and media have designed a narrative with the sole objective of demonizing the Serbs and justifying the continued existence of NATO and its presence within the Balkans.
The description of events described above, however, suggests a much more complex scenario. It becomes increasingly evident that there was a conscious decision made in Sarajevo to abandon the enclave's "defenders" and extract maximum propaganda value by presenting their defeat as a massacre of helpless people. Furthermore, the distinct possibility that the Clinton Administration was intimately involved in this decision - and the precedent set by Germany and Croatia in Vukovar - suggest the profound control by Western nations over the decision and war-making apparatus of the secessionist republics during key phases of Yugoslavia's dismemberment. The fact that the Western media has only played a marginal role (and even then with giant time-lags) in exposing the foreign policy machinations of our elites further underlines the current profound crisis of democracy in advanced industrialized countries.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further reading on Srebrenica:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below is an interesting group of articles on Srebrenica, involving a dispute with 'NY Times' Srebrenica specialist, David Rohde.
David Rohde, Srebrenica and the New Justice
by Jared Israel at http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/fulltext.htm The above is the latest in an ongoing battle with David Rohde from the 'NY Times.' Remember Rohde? He wrote the original Srebrenica massacre story when he was a lowly Christian Science Monitor reporter back in 1995; in return for making loud (if unsubstantiated) accusations against the Bosnian Serbs he landed a perch at the 'NY Times' from which he issues Srebrenica updates whenever NATO wishes to prepare public opinion for some new attack on Yugoslavia. The dispute with Rohde began when we published the article Why has the War Crimes Tribunal suppressed testimony about Srebrenica? by Max Sinclair and Jared Israel at http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/sinclair/why.htm
David Rohde sent an email answered Sinclair and Israel in an email to Prof. Drasko Jovanovic, with whom he had been corresponding about Srebrenica. That can be read at http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/inaccurate.htm
Jovanovic forwarded Rohde's comments to Emperor's Clothes. It was answered by Sinclair and Israel (Go to http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/reply.htm )
Prof. Jovanovic also sent Emperor's Clothes a short memoir concerning his experience as a boy in Nazi occupied Yugoslavia. (Go to http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/letterj.htm ) This is a real experience with genocide, in contrast to the make-believe stuff David Rohde writes.
Rohde then took his dispute with us to the pages of the 'NY Times,' (see http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/fulltext.htm ) omitting nothing other than our actual views. Jared Israel replied to Rohde's 'Times' piece; so did Prof. Jovanovic. Jovanovic's answer is entitled 'Fare well Mr. Rohde. Continue making your living by telling the Srebrenica story.' (Go to http://emperors-clothes.com/letters/farewell.htm )
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3010 "Missing" Muslims from Srebrenica - vote!
The only place on Earth where this kind of miracle was possible was the NATO-created Bosnian Muslim state. The miracle was a direct result of Western method of "engineering democracy." Both the Western "democracies" and the Islam fundamentalists have rich tradition in lying. The end justify the means. This is how the "missing civilians" from Srebrenica were able to be both "unaccounted for" and still be able to vote in NATO-monitored Bosnian "elections" two years later! The following is a partial list of 3010 "missing civilians" from Srebrenica who participated in the Bosnia's election and were on the OSCE voting lists.
The "paradox" was revealed to the OSCE and European Union by Dr. Dragan Kalinic, President of the Republika Srpska Parliament.
Srebrenica "dead people" who voted:
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1 Abdurahmanovic Nezir Ismet
2 Ademovic Ibrahim Kadir 3 Ademovic Ismet Mevludin 4 Ademovic Seban Saban 5 Adic Camil Sadik 6 Ahmetovic Avdo Dzevad 7 Ajsic Ramo Adem 8 Akagic Alia Sabahudin 9 Alemic Alaga Mensur 10 Alic Alaga Abaz 11 Alic Nezir Ahmo 12 Alic Semso Besim 13 Alic Dzemal Dzevad 14 Alic Ferid Fehim 15 Alic Feazo Halil 16 Alic Ohran Hasib 17 Alic Alija Hebib 18 Alic Mehmed Mujo 19 Alic Ibrahim Nezir 20 Alic Haso Nijaz 21 Alic Hajrudin Reuf 22 Alic Semso Sabahudin 23 Alic Adem Samir 24 Alic Sukrija Sead 25 Alic Sukrija Seid 26 Alic Jusuf Senahid 27 Alihodzic Camil Ramadan 28 Alispahic Hamdija Enver 29 Alispahic Omer Mujo 30 Aljic Ismet Nijaz 31 Aljic Suljo Sabahudin 32 Aljic Junuz Salko 33 Aljic Suljo Seval 34 Aljic Abdulah Zijad 35 Atic Safet Ibro 36 Atic Ibro Smajo 37 Avdic Maso Alija 38 Avdic Omer Almir 39 Avdic Kadrija Bajazit 40 Avdic Mustafa Fazlija 41 Avdic Idriz Hajrudin 42 Avdic Alija Hajrudin 43 Avdic Nezir Kadir 44 Avdic Dzemail Nevzet 45 Avdic Avdo Ramiz 46 Avdic Dzemal Refik 47 Avdic Hasan Smail 48 Avdic Smajo Suljo 49 Bajramovic Suljo Azem 50 Bajramovic Ikan Nedzad 51 Bajramovic Ramo Nedzad 52 Bajramovic Alija Ohran 53 Bajramovic Ramo Semso 54 Becic Husein Hajrudin 55 Becic Ramo Ramiz 56 Becirovic Mustafa Abdulah 57 Becirovic Daut Dalija 58 Becirovic Ramo Juso 59 Becirovic Bahrija Nezir 60 Beganovic Meho Mersed 61 Begic Ibro Bego 62 Begic Ahmo Hajdin 63 Begic Salih Halid 64 Begic Saban Halid 65 Begic Alija Mehmedalija 66 Begic Salih Nezir 67 Begic Enez Nedzad 68 Begic Sacir Nusret 69 Begic Asim Zikrija 70 Begovic Ahmo Huso 71 Bektic Enes Dzelil 72 Bektic Jusuf Ejub 73 Bektic Adil Esed 74 Bektic Adem Ibrahim 75 Bektic Mustafa Jusuf 76 Bektic Sead Kiram 77 Bektic Mujo Munib 78 Bektic Salko Sakib 79 Bektic Ibrahim Sead 80 Bektic Nail Suad 81 BekticHuso Suad 82 Bektic Ahmo Sulejman 83 Bitinovic Abdulah Sabahudin 84 Bitinovic Abdulah Sevludin 85 Borogovac Nurdin Emir 86 Brdarevic Ahmo Admir 87 Brdarevic Camil Hamed 88 Brdarevic Taib Vahid 89 Budovic Huso Bajro 90 Buljubasic Ismet Bajro 91 Buljubasic Avdija Elvir 92 Buljubasic Ismet Hamdija 93 Buljubasic Avdija Hasan 94 Buljubasic Vehbija Mirsad 95 Buljubasic Avdija Senad 96 Bumbulovic Asim Adem 97 Bumbulovic Meho Fikret 98 Bumbulovic Omer Junuz 99 Bumbulovic Hasan Hasib 100 Bumbulovic Salih Husein 101 Buric Salih Rifet 102 Cakanovic Cazim Adis 103 Cakanovic Hilmo Cazim 104 Cakanovic Cazim Hazim 105 Camdzic Hasan Habib 106 Camdzic Mustafa Resid 107 Camdzic Juho Samir 108 Catic Husein Junuz 109 Catic Osman Semo 110 Civic Zuhdo Hedib 111 Cvrk Hasan Meho 112 Dautbasic Avdo Sacir 113 Dautovic Alaga Azem 114 Delic Selim Azem 115 Delic Alija Ejub 116 Delic Edhem Ekrem 117 Delic Hasan Enes 118 Delic Selim Eniz 119 Delic Hamed Hajrudin 120 Delic Hasan Ibro 121 Delic Habib Izet 122 Delic Enes Kadrija 123 Delic Meho Sead 124 Delic Ohran Zijad 125 Delic Salcin Taib 126 Dervisevic Bego Bekto 127 Dervisevic Idriz Vahdet 128 Divovic Hakija Elvedin 129 Divovic Ramo Salko 130 Dizdarevic Avdo Haso 131 Dizdarevic Hedib Huso 132 Djogaz Hasan Nusret 133 Djogaz Salcin Salko 134 Djogaz Ahmo Vahid 135 Djozic Mensur Esad 136 Djozic Senusica Fuad 137 Djozic Asim Mensur 138 Djozic Alija Sadik 139 Djozic Edhem Semir 140 Dudic Husein Ibro 141 Dudic Husein Sadik 142 Durakovic Haso Alija 143 Durakovic Miralem Musan 144 Durakovic Haso Sead 145 Dzananovic Dzemal Azem 146 Dzananovic Nezir Dzemal 147 Dzananovic Nezir Ibrahim 148 Dzananovic Hikrija Mujko 149 Dzananovic Juso Mirzet 150 Dzananovic Avdo Mustafa 151 Dzananovic Kasim Zikret 152 Dzanic Ibro Edin 153 Djogaz Mustafa Omer 154 Djogaz Salko Salcin 155 Djozic Huso Beriz 156 Efendic Husein Avdo 157 Efendic Hajrulah Bahrudin 158 Efendic Fadil Mesud 159 Efendic Husein Mevludin 160 Efendic Resid Resid 161 Ejubovic Alija Amir 162 Ejubovic Ibrahim Avdo 163 Ejubovic Muharem Behadil 164 Ejubovic Alija Ejub 165 Ejubovic Ibro Ibrahim 166 Ejubovic Mehmedalija Mehmed 167 Ejubovic Mehmedalija Mevlid 168 Feazic Fadil Mustafa 169 Feazic Nezir Nesib 170 Feazic Ibrahim Saban 171 Feazic Sakib Safet 172 Feazic Ahmet Sakib 173 Feazic Orhan Senaid 174 Gabeljic Suljo Abid 175 Gabeljic Rasid Asim 176 Gabeljic Rasid Atif 177 Gabeljic Juso Avdo 178 Gabeljic Azim Fahrudin 179 Gabeljic Hasim Hamdija 180 Gabeljic Azem Hasan 181 Gabeljic Rasim Huso 182 Gabeljic Suljo Ibro 183 Gabeljic Ibrahim Jusuf 184 Gabeljic Abdulah Meho 185 Gabeljic Atif Mustafa 186 Gabeljic Nezir Nijaz 187 Gabeljic Husein Ramiz 188 Gabeljic Hasan Sead 189 Gabeljic Rasim Zijad 190 Garaljevic Enes Enver 191 Garaljevic Mehmed Sakib 192 Gurdic Ahmet Ahmo 193 Gurdic Ahmo Mesud 194 Gurdic Bego Sadik 195 Hadzibulic Bajro Mevludin 196 Hadzibulic Teufik Bajro 197 Hafizovic Ahmet Vahid 198 Hajdarevic Alaga Kadrija 199 Haadarevic Sukrija Mehmed 200 Haadarevic Sukrija Mirzet 201 Hakic Vejsil Elvir 202 Hakic Hamdija Nurdin 203 Hakic Hajro Nurdin 204 Hakic Ramiz Senad 205 Halilovic Abid Halid 206 Halilovic Himzo Hamid 207 Halilovic Bajro Ibro 208 Halilovic Alija Mehmedalija 209 Halilovic Omer Memis 210 Halilovic Junuz Mirsad 211 Halilovic Safet Mustafa 212 Halilovic Osmo Nurdih 213 Halilovic Huso Rasid 214 Halilovic Idriz Saban 215 Halilovic Saban Sado 216 Halilovic Memis Samir 217 Halilovic Izet Seadalija 218 Halilovic Ibro Sulejman 219 Halilovic Halid Zijad 220 Halilovic Nurif Zurijet 221 Hamzic Aljo Mevlid 222 Hamzic Ahmet Mirsad 223 Hamzic Salih Salcin 224 Hanic Redzep Selim 225 Harbas Ragib Sakib 226 Hasankovic Hasan Nedzad 227 Hasanovic Amil Alaga 228 Hasanovic Huso Edhem 229 Hasanovic Zahir Esed 230 Hasanovic Juso Hajdin 231 Hasanovic Seafo Hajro 232 Hasanovic Ahmet Hamdija 233 Hasanovic Hasan Hamdija 234 Hasanovic Hasan Hazim 235 Hasanovic Salcin Jusuf 236 Hasanovic Ibrahim Mehmed 237 Hasanovic Alija Mehmedalija 238 Hasanovic Ramo Meho 239 Hasanovic Ibrahim Mevludin 240 Hasanovic Ramo Mirsad 241 Hasanovic Hamed Nermin 242 Hasanovic Selman Saban 243 Hasanovic Kadrija Semir 244 Hasanovic Hakija Senad 245 Hasanovic Husein Senahid 246 Hasanovic Alaga Suljo 247 Hasanovic Dzemal Vahdet Fahret 248 Hasic Mustafa Osman 249 Hirkic Maho Ahmo 250 Hirkic Bajro Behadil 251 Hirkic Halid Beris 252 Hirkic Suljo Halid 253 Hirkic Osman Jusuf 254 Hirkic Ahmo Maho 255 Hirkic Husein Sabahudin 256 Hodzic Husein Farid 257 Hodzic Mujo Abdulah 258 Hodzic Kadir Aziz 259 Hodzic Suljo Fikret 260 Hodzic Salko Husein 261 Hodzic Sahmo Sabit 262 Hodzic Sahim Smail 263 Hotic Sead Samir 264 Hotic Hasan Sead 265 Hozbo Muradif Sakib 266 Hrustanovic Ismet Hazim 267 Hrustanovic Ismet Rifet 268 Hrustanovic Ahmo Tahir 269 Hrustic Sahim Azem 270 Hublic Ibrahim Hazim 271 Hublic Fadil Teufik 272 Hukic Husein Ahmet 273 Hukic Gajibija Edhem 274 Hukic Redzo Esed 275 Hukic Tahir Mujo 276 Hukic Hajdin Senad 277 Huremovic Hasib Mehmed 278 Huremovic Mesan Samir 279 Huseinovic Omer Emir 280 Huseinovic Nezir Mirsad 281 Huseinovic Izet Suljo 282 Huseanagic Fehim Redzep 283 Huseanovic Atif Hajrudin 284 Huseanovic Omer Ismet 285 Huseanovic Ibro Munib 286 Huseanovic Hajrudin Nermin 287 Huseanovic Ibrahim Osman 288 Husic Mujo Bahjija 289 Husic Hasan Esad 290 Husic Mujo Himzo 291 Husic Ibrahim Mehmed 292 Husic Mehmed Mujo 293 Ibisevic Salih Bekir 294 Ibisevic Ibis Ekrem 295 Ibisevic Ahmo Samir 296 Ibisevic Salih Sead 297 Ibisevic Sevko Sefedin 298 Ibisevic Salih Seid 299 Ibrahimovic Dzemal Bego 300 Ibrahimovic Omer Dzemail 301 Ibrahimovic Omer Dzemal 302 Ibrahimovic Nefail Emir 303 Ibrahimovic Haso Enver 304 Ibrahimovic Zuhdo Hasib 305 Ibrahimovic Omer Haso 306 Ibrahimovic Ahmet Ibrahim 307 Ibrahimovic Dzemal Kemal 308 Ibrahimovic Zuhrijet Mevlid 309 Ibrahimovic Fikret Mirzet 310 Ibrahimovic Mehmed Muhamed 311 Ibrahimovic Nuria Nedzad 312 Ibrahimovic Nuria Nurdin 313 Ibrahimovic Zulfo Sabahudin 314 Ibrahimovic Ahmet Sahman 315 Ibrahimovic Smail Semso 316 Ibrahimovic Zaim Zahir 317 Idrizovic Salko Hasan 318 Imsirevic Arif Muharem 319 Jahic Ramo Hasib 320 Jahic Mehmed Saib 321 Jahic Salko Vehbija 322 Jakubovic Nezir Bego 323 Jakubovic Husein Ekrem 324 Jakubovic Esed Amir 325 Jasarevic Ismet Ahmet 326 Jukic Hadzo Irfan 327 Jukic Mehmed Mehmedalija 328 Junuzagic Zahir Mirza 329 Jusic Mustafa Mujo 330 Jusic Mujo Munir 331 Jusic Hasib Sadik 332 Jusic Juso Sulejman 333 Jusufovic Salcin Camil 334 Jusufovic Salcin Ramiz 335 Kabilovic Salko Mehmed 336 Kabilovic Bego Nesib 337 Kadric Juso Jusuf 338 Kadric Sado Kadrija 339 Kadric Kadrija Nurdin 340 Kadric Kadrija Nurija 341 Kalic Hamid Bekir 342 Kalic Idriz Muris 343 Kandzetovic Bekto Behaja 344 Kardasevic Ramo Mehan 345 Klancevic Halid Sead 346 Klempic Sevko Amir 347 Klempic Edhem Kadrija 348 Klempic Muso Zulfo 349 Krdzic Ramo Behudin 350 Krdzic Baro Izet ...
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If you think that this was the only such case - think again. Murdered Muslims turned out to be alive many times in Bosnia stories. Just look at the crucial Western media anti-Serb propaganda case of Borislav Herak.
In that "atrocity" story too dead Muslims slaughtered by Mr. Herak for the benefit of the New York Times and other Western propaganda outlets appeared quit alive. In this earlier case though, the dead people were not informed that they should stay dead so they appeared in front of the media. After NATO conquered Bosnia it was so important that they instal their proxy - Islam fundamentalist Alija Izetbegovic that the minor detail about dead people voting was overlooked. The Western media treated this important information as non-existent.
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Carpathian Wolf
General
BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:33 |
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NOTE: Officer Branco also whote "The Muslims, media and machinations in Sarajevo," which was published in "Diario de Noticias", Lisbon, July 3, 1996.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Officer Branco must have noticed that US-Bosnian Muslim alliance treated the UN (NATO) soldiers as expendable whenever it suited their anti-Serb propaganda interests. The way it worked was that Bosnian Muslims would purposely attack (even murder) a Western soldier (or journalist) while the obedient Western media would not miss the chance to put the blame of the attack squarely on the Serbs.
Just look how the Associated Press presented the news of the above mentioned murder of the Dutch soldier. (The title is ours):
Bosnian Muslims murder their NATO defender
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SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) _ A Dutch peacekeeper died from wounds suffered Saturday while retreating from a Bosnian Serb infantry assault on the southern edge of a government-held eastern enclave. The soldier, whose name was not immediately released, was part of a contingent at an observation post that was surrounded in the Serb assault.
The Serbs eventually allowed the peacekeepers to withdraw, during which the soldier was hit by fire from government [i.e. Muslim!] positions, said U.N. spokesman Jim Landale. He is the 67th peacekeeper to die in combat in the former Yugoslavia...
The above quote is from: "The Associated Press" Title: Serb Infantry Assault on Srebrenica, U.N. Forced to Abandon Post Author: LIAM McDOWALL 12 July 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Western reader is frequently over-worked and too tired to actually carefully read the news. Notice that if such reader was to read only the first few sentences of the above news - which would not be unusual - the reader would be left with clear impression that the Serbs (and not the Muslims!) killed the Dutch soldier. We presented (in red) the part of the sentence, hidden in the third paragraph, which reveals the truth that the murderer was a Muslim.
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Srebrenica Muslims left to their destiny
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Thursday, 5 April 2001 The Hague Proceedings, Case against Serbian General Krstic pp 9452, 9454: JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] General, to move on to the attack on Srebrenica, do you have an idea when the Bosniak [i.e. Muslim] authorities, civilian or military, learnt of the attack on the Srebrenica enclave by the [Bosnian] Serb forces, and in particular, when were they informed of the transfer of the population, the capture...? When did they learn of this? And the BH army [Muslim] forces, did they have military materiel and manpower to prevent the attack or to launch a counter-attack?
Muslim General, Sefer Halilovic: In the [Muslim controlled] Dani magazine published in 1998 as a special edition, Dani magazine, under the title of "How They Sold Out Srebrenica and Retained Power," this was an article written by Mr. Hecimovic, a journalist, he quotes a series of testimonies from the meeting of the SDA [Bosnian Muslim Party] Main Board in Zenica...
Hecimovic at that time was a journalist and he was a close collaborator of the [Bosnian Muslim] prime minister, Mr. Haris Silajdzic, prime minister of Bosnia-Herzegovina, therefore, he was in a position to know at firsthand what was happening there.
I later learnt that the command of the 2nd Corps and the General Staff knew when the operation on Srebrenica started, but from a series of testimonies, the people who were in Srebrenica, both from military and political structures, we can clearly see that they [Srebrenica Muslims] asked for help, both of the command of the 2nd Corps and the command of the General Staff and [Muslim] President Izetbegovic, but that they did not receive that assistance. To answer your question whether they had the power and materiel to help, to come to the help of Srebrenica, I think that they did...
JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Yes, General. Perhaps we could now move on more specifically to the column, the issue of the column. In general terms, what information do you dispose of with respect to the column, the formation of the column, the evolution of the column, and everything else with respect to the column, how it was pierced?
General Sefer Halilovic: From what I learnt talking to people who were in the enclave, that is to say, in Srebrenica, but also from the discussions I had with members of the [Muslim] General Staff, I learnt that, in fact, the General Staff and the presidency did not have any information as to the direction taken by the column from Srebrenica. They reported back once but did not communicate after that, so that in practical terms, the first information as to the direction of the column, whether it was moving towards Zepa or Kladanj or Tuzla, reached them only when the first parts of the column began to appear along the Tuzla axis, which means that along that route of horror from Srebrenica to Tuzla, they were not assisted in any way [by the main Muslim forces]. No aid was provided.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why was there no aid provided? The answer may come from Bosnian Muslim fundamentalist leader Alija Izetbegovic: Allah does not count victims
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FOR ALL MUSLIMS THERE IS BUT ONE SOLUTION: TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT, TO STRENGTHEN AND BROADEN IT, FROM DAY TO DAY, FROM YEAR TO YEAR, NO MATTER THE VICTIMS AND NO MATTER THE TIME The above quote is from: "The Islamic Declaration" book by Alija Izetbegovic First printed in Sarajevo in 1970, reprinted 1990, page 53 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Clinton needs at least 5,000 Srebrenica victims Dutch documentary reveals the trap --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, 5 April 2001 The Hague Proceedings, pp 9474, 9475: Defense council of Serbian General Krstic, Mr. Petrusic, addresses General Halilovic: General, do you know Hakija Meholjic? Have you heard of him?
Muslim General, Sefer Halilovic: I met him in 1999 or 2000 perhaps, after having read some of his statements in the press.
Mr. Petrusic: General, he was chief of police in Srebrenica in 1995, or rather, in the period of the safe area until the end of the war. Is that so, for the record?
General Halilovic: As far as I know, yes.
Mr. Petrusic: [Interpretation] I should now like to ask the technical booth to play a short video film of some 10 minutes. It is a video film made by Dutch television, after which I will have a few questions for the General, General Halilovic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The International Community needed the genocide!!!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, 5 April 2001 The Hague Proceedings, starting on page 9480: From tape presented:
[Muslim official] Hakija Meholjic [INTERPRETER Voiceover]: THE INTERPRETER: [Voiceover] "A meeting with American president Clinton, Alija [Izetbegovic] was telling us about the offer of Clinton. Chetniks [ment as derogatory for Serbs] would take Srebrenica and kill 5.000 Muslims, and then there will be a military intervention, and what did we think about that? And we rejected that. We didn't think it was normal that 5.000 people would be slaughtered." [Dutch narrator(?)]: That the American president would have suggested that Serbs would enter Srebrenica and to kill Muslims in order to justify an intervention would be too absurd, but from the UN research, it now seems that this is not too awkward. Some surviving members of the Srebrenica delegation have stated that President Izetbegovic also told them that he had learned that a NATO intervention in Bosnia-Herzegovina was possible but could only occur if the Serbs which would break into Srebrenica are killing at least 5.000 of its people.
We talked about an exchange and the exchange of Srebrenica for other territories.
UN report: The delegation opposed the idea and the subject was not discussed further.
[Hakija Meholjic]: In negotiations we will demand that the maps will be corrected in the Bosnian parliament, that the Bosnian Republic will get Muslim territory along the Drina. The delegation is -- imposed secrecy. The exchange of territories is not -- it was not abolished. We agreed to meet the next day. But after our meeting with Izetbegovic, people started to be bribed. People were taken everywhere. Men came that I didn't know and they made propositions. I've seen those men, but never again afterwards.
They spoke individually with us or in groups, sitting at a table. I was sitting at a table together with Mehovic, and they asked us what we thought about Srebrenica for [Sarajevo, Serb held suburb of] Vogosca, exchanging for Srebrenica for Vogosca, and Zepa for Ilijas [also suburb of Sarajevo]. In case I would not accept the exchange, I could be liquidated, so I returned with the delegation to Srebrenica.
General Halilovic was aware of the meeting between Izetbegovic and the delegation. According to him, the president spoke also with other representatives of Srebrenica. Izetbegovic offered to exchange Srebrenica for Zepa, for neighbourhoods in Sarajevo, Vogosca, Ilijas and Ilidza. We rejected that. Only half a year after Srebrenica was proclaimed a safe area, it is the Muslim government that discusses the destiny of the Muslim population in Srebrenica. Did Sarajevo sacrifice Srebrenica in 1993?
Answer: I think so, yes.
Interview of the Dutch Defence Ministry for [unintelligible]...
The question is: Would the Dutch government have sent DutchBat if they had known that the Muslims were considering the secret proposal and maybe have accepted that? Broskij, acting commander of DutchBat, says that this would have been decisive. This is Broskij, the acting commander:
Well, the situation would have been different for the Dutch government in that case. I'm certain of that... we would not have been sent in that case.
Early 1995, after a year of relative quiet, tensions increase in the enclave. February, a year and a half after the issue of exchange of territory was discussed -- they're talking about a discussion with Naser Oric. The one general refuses to take Oric with him. Early April 1995 Oric would have managed to speak to Izetbegovic and to discuss his presumptions. In the General Staff, according to this man, there was a meeting between Oric and Izetbegovic.
I heard from Naser that those two were together in one room during that night. Naser told me that himself. Everything indicates that Oric's fears were confirmed. Oric is back from Kakanj, but then he [Naser Oric] leaves for good from the enclave and he orders the deputy commander to come with him. After that, he told me, I don't know the exact number, but he sent about 20 officers away, known fighters who participated in heavy fighting. They were trusted by the soldiers and by the people. Each of them could easily gather a hundred people with them that were willing and able to die, able to die. He sent them away to [military] study, to follow an education. Sources confirm that Oric left on his own initiative. The soldiers spoke to Oric just before Oric left. He said he would come back. He said that he would come back and arrange something for our enclave.
The man who had been in the centre of attention for four years left in silence. DutchBat and the UN left -- knew that Oric has been in safety for three months only after the fall of Srebrenica.
Is this his biggest secret? Answer: Probably. His secret and Izetbegovic's secret.
Dutch deputy commander: He was a very strong leader.
The people, he really -- he was a very strong force behind his brigades, at the moment such a commander, at least, and case is complete. People panicked, especially women, children, and elderly, so the weaker groups. And the... army that was left started to panic. We saw that there was no more leadership, and we had obviously been abandoned...
Then something strange happened.
Muslim soldiers leave the enclave and plunder the [Serbian] village of Visnjica just behind the defence line. The order came from Sarajevo to change the pressure on the front. In the meeting, I resisted. This could not happen because this would cause problems. The village was very unimportant.
Still the order was given, and the guys in Srebrenica followed the order.
Why, for goodness' sake? Houses were burned. The attack was led by one of Oric's former allies, former associates.
11th of July, 1995, Serbs take the enclave. The Muslims separated. Women and children are bused to safety.
The men stay behind.
The remaining army, the remaining part of the army flees through the woods to [Muslim held] Tuzla... The International Community needed the genocide..."
[End of the Dutch documentary.]
Mr. Petrusic: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
Mr. Petrusic: General, sir, you will agree that the man on this video clip speaking about the alleged agreement of Alija Izetbegovic on the liquidation of 5.000 Muslims was Hakija Meholjic; am I right in saying that? For the record, you assert that it was Hakija Meholjic?
General Halilovic: Yes, that's right. It was Hakija Meholjic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Izetbegovic: Srebrenica people - not my people --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, 5 April 2001 The Hague Proceedings, pp 9487, 9488: Mr. Petrusic: And finally, General, I'm going to quote one more sentence, page 134 of your book, and I quote: "According to an interview with Holbrooke, Izetbegovic in January 1995 was ready to hand over Srebrenica to the Serbs in the context of a broader solution of the peace question and in order to retain Sarajevo intact. He said that they were not his, and he did not care about that. Mark Dunner [phoen] recorded Holbrooke's statement on that occasion."
When you say he did not care about that, that they were not his people, do you mean "he" being Alija Izetbegovic? Is that the "he" you're referring to? ...
General Halilovic: Here it states precisely that it refers to Mr. Izetbegovic, and there is no need for us to deduce anything. It says so clearly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Were Muslim men a military target? We see from the study presented on one of our previous pages that top Muslim generals Halilovic and Hadzihasanovic easily admit that they had no intention to honor the disarmament of Srebrenica agreement. They even did their best to arm Srebrenica war criminals. The two generals inform us that Srebrenica Muslims, already in April 1993, are organized in well formed military unit (the 28th Division), numbering 5.803 people. The "disarmament" scam left them quite well armed. The generals were able to admit that the unit had 1.947 automatic rifles, 27 submachine-guns, 15 machine-guns, 68 hand-held rocket launchers, all kinds of mortars, anti-armour, anti-missile, anti-aircraft launchers, rockets, guns...
This is not your L.A. street gang.
But this was in April 1993 and thanks to the demilitarization agreement given to them by their Western allies the Muslim generals did their best to arm Srebrenica criminals more. The generals admit that they sent, in front of the besieging Serbian noses, eight helicopters filled with arms and ammunition.
So, these are the people who formed a column trying to break trough 100km deep, well defended Serb-held territory.
We called their attempt a suicide run.
The entire 28th Division
on the march! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, 6 April 2001 The same, page 9527, 9528: Muslim General, Enver Hadzihasanovic: I know that on the 11th of July [1995], almost all members of the army gathered in the village of Susnjari.
In addition to the military, as far as I know and according to the information that I have, there were about 7.000 civilians in that village. There was a very small number of women there, not more than ten, I think. So on the 11th of July, in the evening, the division command, together with the municipal authorities, on their own initiative decided to move in a column and try and leave the area of the protected zone in the direction of the free territory around Tuzla. I think that that decision was taken around 2200 hours on the 11th of July.
According to the statement by the late [Muslim] Chief of Staff with whom I had an opportunity to talk, Mr. Becirovic, I think that was his name, the column consisted between 12.000 and 15.000 people and almost the complete composition, the complete division was there, that is, 5.500 to 6.000 troops...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only half of the armed force survives the suicide march! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday, 5 April 2001 The same, page 9490: JUDGE [FOUAD] RIAD: ...What was the percentage of fighters or of military people in the column, if you know about it?
Muslim General, Sefer Halilovic: I can't say exactly what the percentage of military people was compared to the civilians in the column, but after the breakthrough from the encirclement -- from the enclave, rather, several days later I saw a review of the 28th Division in Tuzla, and there were about 3.000 soldiers, 3.000 fighters amongst them, and the information media claimed that they came from the enclave to Tuzla together with the column.
JUDGE RIAD: And have you an idea how strongly they were armed in the column?
General Sefer Halilovic: The soldiers who were in the column together with the civilians were armed with light infantry weapons. That was shown during the review and ceremony [!!!] held in Tuzla seven or eight days later, after they had broken through, after they had exited.
JUDGE RIAD: And were they in a position to fight, to fight back?
General Sefer Halilovic: Their position was a highly precarious one, and according to what I learnt, once again from the information media, they had to walk for a very long time and were very tired. They were exhausted, and a large number did not reach Tuzla at all, so that they were not in a position to defend themselves, to fight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course, they were in "precarious position" and they could not defend themselves very efficiently. That was the whole point of the above mentioned Bill Clinton's plan of obtaining 5,000 Islam martyrs. This is how the column looked when they arrived. The following photograph was presented in The New York Times on Friday, July 21, 1995, Page A8. The subtitle reads: "Bosnian Government soldiers from the enclave of Srebrenica, which fell to the Serbs last week, stopped for a rest Wednesday near the Government-held town of Kalesija. The soldiers had trekked for days through Serb-held territory, carrying their wounded with them".
Criminally irresponsible
the Muslims involve civilians in suicide military act --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, 6 April 2001 The same, page 9528: Muslim General, Enver Hadzihasanovic: It was decided that the column should go along the axis Konjevic Polje-Bratunac moving along the ridges west of that axis, and that the asphalt road be crossed over in the area between Konjevic Polje and Nova Kasaba and that they should continue towards Tuzla after crossing the tarmac on that spot. The length of the column, according to the information that I have, was between 12 and 15 kilometres, and the time span was about two and a half hours from the head and the tail of the column. They started on the 11th of July around midnight.
As far as I could note, it was structured as follows: The head of the column consisted of elements of the 284th Brigade who were followed by the 280th Brigade and I know that the Chief of Staff told me that he was amongst the members of that unit. Then followed civilians together with the military, and the last element of the column was the independent battalion which was also part of the 28th Division.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ZIG - ZAG... through mountains and hell! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, 6 April 2001 The same, page 9528 - 9531: Muslim General, Enver Hadzihasanovic: Before they reached the asphalt road at Konjevic Polje towards Vlasenica, an artillery attack was launched against the second half of the column. Fire was opened from various kinds of artillery weapons on the tail of the column, and the head of the column realised that there was nobody on the tarmac road. They had started crossing the road on that spot, not knowing that the second half of the column was, in the meantime, exposed to a fierce attack, artillery attack. That was on the 12th of July. I think that about 80 or 100 people managed to cross the tarmac road, that is one-third of the column.
After that, some APCs and a tank, I believe, arrived and the Serb forces pierced the column on that spot. So the first third of the column managed to cross the asphalt road, and they were waiting to see what would happen with the rest of the column. However, throughout that day, the second half of the column was exposed to heavy shooting and shelling, and during the night, they probably thought that other members of the column would also cross the road, but nobody did so they decided to move on. I know that because the Chief of Staff who told me about this was with that portion of the column.
They continued towards the Udrc mount where they assembled, and at that point in time they sent a group of people back to the asphalt road to wait and see whether anybody else would cross over, but they had to return because no one was crossing the road any more. So on the 13th of July, they continued on their way across the Udrc mount in the direction of Kalesija that is towards the Kalesija-Zvornik asphalt road.
On that part of the road, they were ambushed on several occasions. There were fatalities and casualties there, and on the 14th of July or the 15th, they reached the area of the village of Medzedza, that is the area of Crni Vrh, which is a hill near Kalesija.
On the 15th of July, they tried to leave the area of Crni Vrh [Black Peak] and the wider area is called Parlog. They tried to move closer to the [Muslim held] front lines but they were ambushed again [by the Bosnian Serbs] so they had to go back and they spent the night there. In the afternoon hours of the 15th of July, they selected a large group of people who then fought with the Serbs at one point in time, but they were unable to do anything. So on the 15th of July in the evening hours, they went back to the same spot to spend the night.
On the 16th of July, in a similar way with a group of people, they attempted once again a breakthrough and at that point in time, the communication was established with the [Muslim] front line through a walkie-talkie so the Corps Command, at that time, was already familiar with the spot where they could be expected to come out. In the early morning hours of the 16th of July, the front line was finally pierced by the elements of the 24th Division and the 212th Brigade.
As for the other side, they were moving from the rear of the front and they managed to pierce the line along the distance of one and a half kilometres, and the civilians and the military which was with that group started entering the free area at that spot. However, as regards the asphalt road between Konjevic Polje and Vlasenica, in that area, there were very few people left, only an individual here and there who managed to go through.
Later on, people who survived and who managed to come out told us that it was like a manhunt in that area near the asphalt road coming from Srebrenica going towards Kravica, Konjevic Polje, and then further on from Konjevic Polje towards Vlasenica near Kasaba. So that region was the theatre of a fierce manhunt, and I know that they were collecting people at three locations. One of them was the stadium near Nova Kasaba. The second one was a farm, agricultural farm in the village of Kravica. The third location was an elementary school or part of a factory in Kravica.
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Carpathian Wolf
General
BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:32 |
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Setting the trap for the Serbs
NATO troops dressed as (supposedly) neutral UN peace keepers together with their Western governments committed such crime upon the Serbian people that it is hard to find words and explain it. Srebrenica played an important, multifaceted role in this game which was played against the destiny of one whole people - the Serbs. Srebrenica was a carefully set trap that would finally pull the Serbs into an action of clear breach of the rules arbitrarily set by so called "international community." To understand how and why did the Serb finally decide to breach so called "safe zone" of Srebrenica we are again forced to look at some key events that preceded it. THE TIME TABLE:
20 MONTHS BEFORE SREBRENICA: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slaughter of Serbs in the UNPROFOR safe zone "NORTH"
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On Thursday, September 9, 1993, Croatian Army, the heir to infamous WWII Ustasha Nazis made a sudden, unprovoked attack on the Serbian villages in the "Medak pocket." They chop to pieces any human being they encounter. They slaughter cattle and anything moving - all to the last cat. Then they put Ustasha "U" symbol on the buildings and burn it all. The message that they are brutal Nazis they always were is loud and clear. The fact that they have breached so called UN protected zone "North" causes no outrage in the West. UN officials express outrage but their outrage does not reach very many Western newspapers. So, very early it is clear that not only that Serbian lifes do not count but that UN "protection" zones are but a joke. The whole affair is swapped under the rug and only ten years later (or so) will some Canadian newspapers write about "brave" Canadian soldiers who tried to stop the Croats - when it was already too late. No-one even counts the Serbian dead.
The model is set. The Croats got answers to all their questions. They are free to slaughter.
Read more about Medak
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 WEEKS BEFORE SREBRENICA:
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Croats crush UNPROFOR safe zone "WEST"
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This time the Croatian Army, with WWII Ustasha insignia attacks on and takes over an ENTIRE so called "United Nations protection zone." It is "Zone West" - Western Slavonia. On Monday, May 1, 1995, in early morning hours (5:30am) Croatian Army made an all-out artillery and infantry surprise attack on the UN PROTECTED Area. They use tanks, helicopters and MIG-21 aircrafts. The push aside UN "protectors" from third rate non-NATO countries (from Argentina, Nepal and Jordan), kill a few and take a few as hostages.
The Croats crush with tanks Serbian civilians who try to flee. Blood flows in the streets. They admit killing 450, the Serbs know that few thousands of people are missing for ever. We are tallking civilians here - men, women and children - not male fighters as the case will be with Srebrenica.
Again, there is no outrage in the Western press. No hoopla. Almost casually, Washington Post, says on May 8, 1995: "a CBS News team witnessed Croatian authorities, in all-white jump suits, spraying chlorine on an area that U.N. investigators picked over today, removing much of the forensic evidence that might have remained."
Case closed.
The Serbs are beyond outraged. One of the areas described by the Western press as "retaken" or even "liberated" was a small village of Jasenovac. This is a sacred place for the Serbs. This is the "Balkan Auschwitz."
This is the place for which Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (which by the way was NOT written by the Serbs) say: "SOME SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WERE MURDERED AT JASENOVAC, mostly Serbs, Jews, Gypsies..."
The Serbs say for the Jasenovac that it is "the largest under ground Serbian city."
On that day in May - only days before Srebrenica was to happen - infamous Ustasha flag with Ustasha "shahovnica" emblem was to fly again above Jasenovac - for the first time after death of Hitler!
Completely out of context, the New York Times mentioned (on October 31, 1993) "[T]o many Jews, Serbs and others, ["shahovnica"] is a symbol almost as hateful as the swastika."
The Balkan equivalent of swastika was flying over Balkan equivalent of Auschwitz and there was no outrage!!!
Silence.
Yes, it happened only days before Srebrenica. Yes, the American Serbs phoned and wrote letters of protest and outrage to the White House. There was no effect... The message was clear: From now on it is a war like any other war before - a war where there are no "safe" or "protected" zones. Brutal force is the only thing that counts!
You can only imagine what one of those "democratic" countries of the West would do as a revenge. You can imagine. But it seemed that the Serbs need more clues, more push, more hint that they should take over tiny enclaves in their midst, the enclaves that were safe heaven for Islam fundamentalist jihad fighters...
Read more about attack on Western Slavonia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 DAYS BEFORE SREBRENICA:
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Another slaughter attack out of Srebrenica
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a raid before dawn that again illustrated the weakness of U.N. forces here, Bosnian government [i.e. Muslim] soldiers apparently slipped past U.N. posts on Monday and attacked this isolated Bosnian Serb village, burning several houses, stealing livestock, and leaving a dozen families homeless... [T]he assault... reflected... the inadequacy of U.N. peacekeepers who have pledged to prevent them from leaving supposedly demilitarized enclaves in eastern Bosnia.
[The attacked Serbian village of] Visnjica is a miserable settlement perched on a mountainside a few miles from Srebrenica, one of the Muslim towns in eastern Bosnia which the United Nations has designated as demilitarized "protected areas." But Monday's raid was apparently launched by troops based inside Srebrenica, leading Bosnian Serb officers to denounce the United Nations for failing to comply with its promise to keep the town free of soldiers and weapons.
Several of the impoverished farmers who live in Visnjica said they had assumed they were safe here because of U.N. pledges.
"We thought that no one could attack us from Srebrenica because the town was demilitarized and surrounded by U.N. soldiers," said Ljubomir Vukovic, 67, as he stood in the smoldering ruins of the house he shared with two other families. "But they came from right over that hill."
Vukovic pointed toward a peak separating his village from Srebrenica. A U.N. post there is supposed to prevent soldiers from passing in either direction.
Villagers here said they were awakened at 4:30 on Monday morning by the sound of small-arms fire. They fled into the surrounding forest, watching helplessly as their homes were set afire and their cattle driven away, evidently to feed government units.
Asked why he and his neighbors had been targeted, one villager, Savo Madzarevic, paused to reflect for a moment and then replied: "I suppose it is because we are Serbs."
...Monday's attackers may have chosen Visnjica as a target because it is isolated and undefended. When Serb soldiers arrived to repel them, they withdrew in the direction of Srebrenica, killing one Serb soldier and wounding three civilians...
The above quote is from: "N.Y. Times News Service" June 26, 1995 (NYT-06-26-95 2020EDT) Read the integral NYT text. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough of Mujahedin terror, already!
Bosnian Serb General: The terrorist nest should be demilitarized --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to [Bosnian Serb commander, Gen. Ratko Mladic], UNPROFOR did not carry out its main task nor implement the agreements signed by its generals, from [French Gen.] Morilion to [British Gen.] Rose. "The protected zones of Srebrenica, Zepa and Gorazde are not demilitarized, while Sarajevo, Tuzla and Bihac were not the subject of talks between the warring sides and they are not defined as protected zones," said Mladic The above quote is from: "Reuters" June 27, 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ..."Safe" Srebrenica was supposed to be demilitarized but this did not stop Mr Oric's soldiers from raiding nearby Serb villages. A recent raid, occurring soon after the collapse of the heavy-weapons exclusion zone around Sarajevo, plus the slow gathering of the West's reaction force, gave General Ratko Mladic, the Bosnian Serb commander, the reasons he needed for extracting the thorn of Srebrenica from the Bosnian Serbs' eastern side. But Mr Oric escaped.... The above quote is from: "The Economist" "Call that safe?" 15-21 July 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The commander of the Bosnian Serb army, Gen. Ratko Mladic, said in a letter to [American] Gen. Rupert Smith, the U.N. commander in Bosnia, that the Serbian offensive had been undertaken to "neutralize" what he called terrorists in Srebrenica. Mladic accused the United Nations of failing to demilitarize the so-called safe area of Srebrenica. He said civilians and peacekeepers were not endangered by Bosnian Serb military activity. The United Nations has confirmed that the Bosnian government used the safe areas for staging attacks... The above quote is from: "New York Times" "News Service" July 11, 1995 (07-11-95 2031EDT) =========================
July 1995
The Third Surrender of Srebrenica --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A short reminder:
April 19, 1992 - Only 13 days after Western insane declaration of Bosnia as an independent Muslim state, Srebrenica Muslims voluntarily surrender to Bosnian Serb forces. The Muslims offer their weapons. The Serbs let them stay and even offer an autonomy. April 1992 to April 1993 - Muslims slaughter Serbian civilians in nearby villages with impunity. They are protected by "neutral" NATO masquerading in U.N. uniforms. April 18, 1993 - Militarily, Srebrenica falls for the second time. NATO demands that Serbs should not take over the town. They offer to disarm Srebrenica war criminals. They claim that they have completed disarming Muslims. April 1993 to July 1995 - Instead of disarming Islam fanatics Pentagon arms them and even ships Arab volunteers to Bosnia. Al Qaeda and Srebrenica thugs are American friends. Slaughter of Serbs in villages near Srebrenica continues. Then, unexpetedly, Srebrenica falls for the third time.
Helpless NATO can not stop the Serbs
On one of countless Srebrenica Muslim provocations, Bosnian Serbs respond with 200 soldiers and five tanks. What ensued looks like a bad joke. It is exactly unbelievable. Some 450 Dutch soldiers well equipped with anti-tank weaponry and supported by mighty NATO aviation could not (if we are to believe it!) stop these 200 super-Serbs. The "safe zone" was supposed to be "demilitarized." Instead, the enclave also contained some 10,000 mujahedin soldiers well equipped by Pentagon. This force was sitting in advantegious, defense position. They could have easily stoped the small force that entered the enclave. To everyone's surprise they did not even try! Instead the mujahedin terrorists started suicidal retreat, on the opposite side of the enclave. They tried to break through thick Serbian lines. Here the table was turned and Muslims had to charge through well entrenched Christian lines.
The abandonment was a political decision!?
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The Muslim defenders of Srebrenica put up only a brief fight against the Serbs, and their commanders left the night before the Serb tanks entered the town, according to Western intelligence sources yesterday. The abandonment of Srebrenica to a relatively small Serb advancing force caused surprise in the West, especially after the largely Muslim government army had demonstrated considerable infantry skills in recent attacks.
There were reports that up to 1,500 Serbs were involved in the assault on Srebrenica, but intelligence sources estimated the main attack was carried out by a force of about 200, with five tanks. "It was a pretty low-level operation, but for some reason which we can't understand the BiH (government [i.e. Muslim]) soldiers didn't put up much of a fight," one source said.
Srebrenica was officially demilitarised on April 17, 1993, but the government soldiers were not short of weapons. Before the Serb advance on the town, the Muslims had been shelling Serb units along the main road to the south. The intelligence sources said it was that harassment which precipitated the Serb attack on the 1,500 Muslim defenders inside the enclave.
However, the [Serb] advance into the town was seen by intelligence assessors as an opportunist move. "I don't think the Serbs had predicted the timing of this operation," one source said. The apparent decision by the Muslims to abandon the town provided the Serbs with a sudden opportunity to occupy Srebrenica, bypassing the Dutch on the road a mile south of the town.
The intelligence source said: "The BiH [Muslim forces] just melted away from Srebrenica and the senior officers left the night before." The source said the Muslim defenders were "adequately armed" for street-fighting.
However, the Muslims suffered many casualties in their recent offensive against the Serbs around Sarajevo and there may be a reluctance to take on the Serbs again, at least for the moment. "The action ground Sarajevo involved probing attacks to test the Serb defences, and they discovered to their cost that retaliation was very strong," one military source said.
The reputation of the government army has much improved over the past 12 months. It is recognised to be better armed, better commanded and more capable of mounting well disciplined infantry attacks. However, despite its growing capability, the Muslim force has yet to prove it can sustain a longer-term campaign.
The soldiers in Srebrenica were only local defenders and it is possible they were incapable of mounting a defence. If it was a political decision to abandon Srebrenica, it could be seen by the Serbs as an invitation to move on to the next Muslim enclaves, in particular Zepa and Gorazde. State Department officials in Washington said last night that the two areas were likely to fall unless the international community moved quickly to defend them.
The Western intelligence sources said Zepa would be a relatively easy target because of its size. Gorazde would be more of a challenge...
The above quote is from: [British] "The Times" Title: Muslim soldiers 'failed to defend town from Serbs' Author: Michael Evans, Defence Correspondent 14 July 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... The Dutch accounts, by soldiers, officers and the Defence Minister, were unanimous in asserting that the Bosnian Muslim soldiers who had been under siege in Srebrenica for three years abandoned the town around two days *before* it fell. Before the defenders left the town, General Couzy said, Dutch soldiers saw: "in two locations there was fighting between those [Muslims] who wanted to stay and those who wanted to go. Many Dutch soldiers said they had been upset and troubled by the sight of soldiers seeming to abandon their wives and children to the advancing Serbs...
The above quote is from: "The New York Times" Author: Alan Cowell July 23, 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mighty NATO aviation
could not stop Bosnian Serbs? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) _ The U.N. "safe area" of Srebrenica fell today to the Bosnian Serb army despite a NATO airstrike designed to end a Serb offensive against the eastern enclave. Srebrenica is the first of the six U.N.[/NATO]-protected areas to fall. "The Bosnian Serb army is now in control of Srebrenica," U.N. spokesman Alexander Ivanko said.
He said the eastern Bosnian town had been overrun and that Dutch [i.e. NATO] peacekeepers who had set up a line south of the town to defend it against a rebel [sic!] assault had abandoned their post. They were were attempting to re-establish a similar defense line outside the Dutch main peacekeeping base in Potocari, north of the town, he said.
In Belgrade, Yugoslavia, Stephen Oberreit, a representative of Doctors Without Borders, said his group had evacuated the Srebrenica hospital and a mass flight was under way.
"Nobody is left in the town, the whole population is on the road, to Potocari," he said, referring to a U.N. [i.e. NATO] peacekeepers' base two miles to the north.
Word of the enclave's fall came shortly after American and Dutch warplanes acting on behalf of NATO attacked Bosnian Serb forces in Srebrenica to punish them for attacking the area and Dutch peacekeepers there.
Since Sunday, the United Nations has warned repeatedly of possible airstrikes if the Bosnian Serbs did not abandon the tank and infantry offensive they launched Wednesday against the government-held [read: Muslim held, cleansed of all Serbs] enclave of 42,000 people, populated mostly by Muslim refugees.
The Serbs ignored the U.N. warnings and fought with Dutch troops manning the defensive line along the town's southern limits, shelling the town and a U.N. camp.
Srebrenica is the first "safe area" the United Nations [i.e. NATO] established two years ago to protect [Muslim] civilians [only], but as with the five other U.N.-protected areas, the designation has not kept it out of the war.
The Serbs had said Monday night that the inhabitants and U.N. peacekeepers had 48 hours to get out of the area and leave their weapons behind.
The Bosnian Serb army has said it launched the offensive because government [i.e. Muslim] troops were crossing the enclave's boundary to attack Serb positions.
The United Nations confirmed today that government troops had used the safe haven status of Srebrenica town to launch offensives [actually terrorst attacks against Serbian villages] from the enclave that surrounds it.
In Pale, the Bosnian Serb headquarters east of Sarajevo, Jovan Zametica, an adviser to Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic, said:
"The Muslims have abused the status of Srebrenica's 'safe area' in order to launch terrorist raids against the Serb civilian population," he said. "We have had 30 killed civilians in the past 45 days and we are determined to put a stop to these acts of terrorism."
There was no independent confirmation of the number of [Serbian] casualties... [sic!]
The above quote is from: "The Associated Press" Title: First U.N. Safe Haven Falls to Bosnian Serbs Author: LIAM McDOWALL 11 July 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Srebrenica Muslim suicidal run
U.N. observer, Portuguese Army officer, Carlos Martins Branco explains the suicidal nature of the Muslim decision to abandon easily defensible positions and try to break through Serbian defense positions on the other side of the enclave. The suicidal run!!!
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The zone of Srebrenica, like almost all of Eastern Bosnia, is characterized by very rugged terrain. Steep valleys with dense forests and deep ravines make it impossible for combat vehicles to pass, and offers a clear advantage to defensive forces.... Given the military advantage of the [Muslim] defensive forces it is very difficult to explain the absence of their military resistance.
Sarajevo [Muslim headquarters] did not lift a finger in order to launch an attack which would have divided the Serbian forces and exposed the vulnerabilities created by the concentration of [Bosnian Serb] resources around Srebenica...
The mass graves [around Srebrenica] are filled by a limited number of corpses from both sides, the consequence of heated battle and combat and not the result of a premeditated plan of genocide...
The above quote is from: UN Officer Carlos Martins Branco "Was Srebenica a hoax?" March 1998 ==================================== UN Officer Speaks
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Carlos Martins Branco was officer of the Portuguese Army and former UN Military Observer in Bosnia. He was on the ground in Bosnia during the third (and the last) fall of Srebrenica. This is his letter sent to a discussion group.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Letter by Carlos Martins Branco:
4 MARCH 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi everybody,
I would like to express my views on the events of Srebrenica. I am sending one article I wrote some time ago, which reflects a very different approach from the one conveyed by the Western media, and CNN in particular. I was UNMO Deputy Chief Operations Officers of UNPF (at theatre level) and my information is based upon debriefings of UNMOs who where posted to Srebrenica during those days and some UN reports not disclosed to public opinion. My sources are not Ruder & Finn Global Public Affairs, which has not my name included in its database.
I don't want to discuss numbers and similar matters. Those subjects do not interest me at all. There are not reliable information and figures have been used and manipulated for propaganda purposes which are not oriented to a serious understanding of the Yugoslavian conflict.
The article I am sending is based upon TRUE information and includes my analysis of the events. The story is longer than the one of the article, however, I tried to concentrate it as small as possible. I hope it contributes to a further clarification of what really happened in Srebrenica and what was behind it, specially in what concerns the Bosnian Muslim attitude.
I do believe that Srebrenica shows a pattern behaviour of the warring factions in the conflict: on one hand Bosnian Muslim provocating Serbs, trying hard to convince the international community to intervene by force against the Serbs in order to solve the military question; on the other hand Serb leadership's lack of intelligence providing to Muslims the justifications and arguments they were looking for. I know that some of you won't enjoy the contents of the article. For those, sorry.
Carlos Martins Branco
Was Srebenica a hoax?
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It is now two years since the Muslim enclave, Srebenica, fell into the hands of the Serbian army in Bosnia. Much has been written about the matter. Nonetheless the majority of reports have been limited to a broad media exposure of the event, with very little analytic rigour. Discussion of Srebrenica cannot be limited to genocide and mass graves, which has been almost a banale occurrence throughout ex-Yugoslavia. A rigorous analysis of the events must take into consideration the background circumstances, in order to understand the real motives which led to the fall of the enclave.
The zone of Srebrenica, like almost all of Eastern Bosnia, is characterized by very rugged terrain. Steep valleys with dense forests and deep ravines make it impossible for combat vehicles to pass, and offers a clear advantage to defensive forces. Given the resources available to both parties, and the characteristics of the terrain, it would seem that the Bosnian army (ABiH) had the necessary force to defend itself, if it had used full advantage of the terrain. This, however, did not occur.
Given the military advantage of the [Muslim] defensive forces it is very difficult to explain the absence of military resistance. The Muslim forces did not establish an effective defensive system and did not even try to take advantage of their heavy artillery, under control of the United Nations (UN) forces, at a time in which they had every reason to do so.
The lack of [Muslim] military response stands in clear contrast to the offensive attitude which characterized the actions of the defensive forces in previous siege situations, which typically launched violent "raids" against the Serbian villages surrounding the enclave, thus provoking heavy casualties amongst the Serbian civilian population.
But in this instance, with the attention of the media focused upon the area, military defence of the enclave would have revealed the true situation in security zones, and demonstrate that these had never been genuinely demilitarized zones as was claimed, but harboured highly-armed [Muslim] military units. Military resistance would jeopardize the image of [Muslims as] "victim", which had been so carefully constructed, and which the Muslims considered it was vital to maintain.
Throughout the entire operation it was clear that there were profound disagreements between the leaders of the enclave. From a military viewpoint, there was total confusion. [Narer] ORIC, the charismatic commander of Srebenica, was absent.
The Sarajevo government did not authorize his return in order to lead the resistance. Military power fell into the hands of his lieutenants, who had a long history of incompatibility. The absence of Oric's clear leadership led to a situation of total ineptitude. The contradictory orders of his successors completely paralysed the forces under siege.
The behaviour of the political leaders is also interesting. The local SDP president, Zlatko Dukic, in an interview with European Union observers, explained that Srebrenica formed part of a business transaction which involved a logistical support route to Sarajevo, via [Sarajevo suburb of] VOGOSCA. He also claimed that the fall of the enclave formed part of an orchestrated campaign to discredit the West and win the support of Islamic countries. This was the reason for ORIC to maintain distance from his troops. This thesis was also defended by the local supporters of the [Muslim party] SDA. There were also many rumours of a trade within the local population of the enclave.
Another curious aspect was the absence of a military reaction from the 2nd Corps of the Muslim army [outside of the enclave], which did nothing to relieve the military pressure on the enclave. It was common knowledge that the [Bosnian] Serb unit in the region, the "Drina Corps", was exhausted and that the attack on Srebenica was only possible with the aid of the units from other regions. Despite this fact, Sarajevo did not lift a finger in order to launch an attack which would have divided the Serbian forces and exposed the vulnerabilities created by the concentration of [Bosnian Serb] resources around Srebenica. Such an attack would have reduced the military pressure on the enclave.
It is also important to register the pathetic appeal of the president of Opstina [= county, in Serbo-Croatian], Osman Suljic, on July 9, [1995] which implored military observers to say to the world that the Serbians were using chemical weapons. The same gentleman later accused the media of transmitting false news items on the resistance of troops in the enclave, requiring a denial from the UN. According to Suljic, the Muslim troops did not respond, and would never respond with heavy artillery fire. Simultaneously, he complained of the lack of food supplies and of the humanitarian situation. Curiously, [the U.N.] observers were never allowed to inspect the [Srebrenica Muslim] food reserve deposits. The emphasis given by political leaders on the lack of military response and the absence of food provisions loosely suggests an official policy which began to be discernible.
In mid 1995, the prolongation of the war had dampened public interest. There had been a substantial reduction in the pressure of public opinion in the western democracies. An incident of this importance would nonetheless provide hot news material for the media during several weeks, could awaken public opinion and incite new passions. In this manner it would be possible to kill two birds with one stone: pressure could be laid to bear in order to lift the embargo and simultaneously the occupying countries would find it difficult to withdraw their forces, a hypothesis which had been advanced by leading UN figures such as Akashi and Boutros-Boutros Ghali.
The Muslims always harboured a secret hope that the embargo would be [officially] lifted. This had become the prime objective of the Sarajevo [Muslim] government, and had been fuelled by the vote in the US Senate and Congress in favour of such a measure. President Clinton, however, vetoed the decision and required a two thirds majority in both houses. The enclaves collapse gave the decisive push that the campaign needed. After its fall, the US Senate voted with over a two thirds majority in favour of lifting the embargo.
It was the clear that sooner or later the enclaves would fall into the hands of the Serbians, it was an inevitability. There was a consensus amongst the negotiators (the US administration, the UN and European governments) that it was impossible to maintain the three Muslim enclaves, and that they should be exchanged for territories in Central Bosnia. Madeleine Albright suggested this exchange on numerous occasions to Izetbegovic, based on the proposals of the contact group.
As early as 1993, at the time of the first crisis of the enclave, Karadzic had proposed to Izetbgovic to exchange Srebrenica for the [Sarajevo] suburb of Vogosca. This exchange included the movement of populations in both directions. This was the purpose of secret negotiations in order to avoid undesirable publicity. This implied that the western countries accepted and encouraged ethnic separation.
The truth is that both the Americans and President Izetbegovic had tacitly agreed that it made no sense to insist in maintaining these isolated enclaves in a divided Bosnia. In 1995 nobody believed any longer in the inevitability of ethnic division of the territory. In the month of June 1995, before the military operation in Srebrenica, Alexander Vershbow, Special Assistant to President Clinton stated that "America should encourage the Bosnians to think in terms of territories with greater territorial coherence and compactness." In other words this meant that the enclaves should be forgotten. The attack on Srebrenica, with no help from Belgrade, was completely unnecessary and proved to be one of the most significant examples of the political failure of the Serbian leadership.
Meanwhile the western media exacerbated the situation by transforming the enclaves into a powerful mass-media icon; a situation which Izetbegovic was quick to explore. CNN had daily broadcasts of the images of "mass graves for thousands of corpses," obtained from spy satellites. Despite the microscopic precision in the localization of these "graves," it is certain that no discover to date has confirmed such suspicions. Since there are no longer restrictions on [NATO troops] movement [throughout Bosnia], we inevitably speculate on why they have still not been shown to the world.
If there had been a premeditated [Serbian] plan of genocide, instead of attacking in only one direction, from the south to the north - which left the hypothesis to escape to the north and west, the Serbs would have established a siege in order to ensure that no one escaped. The UN observation posts to the north of the enclave were never disturbed and remained in activity after the end of the military operations. There are obviously mass graves in the outskirts of Srebrenica as in the rest of ex-Yugoslavia where combat has occurred, but there are no grounds for the campaign which was mounted, nor the numbers advanced by CNN.
The mass graves are filled by a limited number of corpses from both sides, the consequence of heated battle and combat and not the result of a premeditated plan of genocide, as occurred against the Serbian populations in Krajina, in the Summer of 1995, when the Croatian army implemented the mass murder of all Serbians found there. In this instance, [in the instance of Krajina fall] the media maintained an absolute silence, despite the fact that the genocide occurred over a three month period. The objective of Srebrenica was ethnic cleansing and not genocide, unlike what happened in Krajina, in which although there was no military action, the Croatian army decimated villages.
Despite knowledge of the fact that the enclaves were already a lost cause, Sarajevo insisted in drawing political dividends from the fact. The receptivity which had been created in the eyes of public opinion made it easier to sell the thesis of genocide.
But of even greater importance than the genocide thesis and the political isolation of the Serbs, was blackmailing of the UN: either the UN joined forces with the Sarajevo government in the conflict (which subsequently happened) or the UN would be completely discredited in the eyes of the public, leading in turn to support for Bosnia [Muslims]. Srebrenica was the last straw which led western governments to reach agreement on the need to cease their "neutrality" and commence [an open] military action against one side in the conflict [ - the Bosnian Serbs]. It was the last straw which united the West in their desire to break "Serbian bestiality". Sarajevo [Muslim "government"] was conscious of the fact that it lacked the military capacity to defeat the [Bosnian Serbs] Serbs. It was necessary to create conditions via which the international community [i.e. the West] could do this for them. Srebrenica played a vital role in this process.
Srebrenica represents one of a series of acts by the Serbian leaders intended to provoke the UN, [sic!] in order to demonstrate their impotence. This was a serious strategic error which would cost them dear. The side which had everything to win by demonstrating the impotence of the UN was the Sarajevo leadership and not that of Pale. In 1995 it was clear that the change in the status quo required a powerful intervention which would overthrow the Serbian military power. Srebrenica was one of the pretexts, resulting from the short-sightedness of the Bosnian Serbian leaders.
The besieged [Muslim] forces could have easily defended the enclave, at least for much longer, if they had been well led. It proved convenient to let the enclave fall in this manner. Since the enclave was doomed to fall, it was preferable to let this happen in the most beneficial manner possible. But this would only have been viable if Sarajevo had political initiative and freedom of movement, which would never occur at the negotiating table. The deliberate fall of the enclave might appear to be an act of terrible Machiavellian orchestration, [obviously designed in the minds of Bosnia Muslim American advisers] but the truth is that the Sarajevo government had much to gain, as proved to be the case. Srebrenica was not a zero-sum game. The Serbians won a military victory but with highly negative political side-effects, which helped result in their definitive ostracization.
We might add a final curious note. As the UN observation posts were attacked, and proved impossible to maintain, the forces withdrew. The barricades set up by the Muslim army did not let the troops past. These troops were not treated as soldiers fleeing from the front line, but rather with a sordid differentiation.
The Muslims not only refused to fight to defend themselves, they forced others [here: the Dutch/UN force] to fight on their behalf. In one instance, the commander of a Dutch vehicle decided after conversations with ABiH [Bosnian Muslim force] to pass [their] barrier. [Dutch positions were in front of the Muslim positions - i.e. toward the attacking Serbs.] A Muslim soldier threw a hand grenade whose fragments mortally wounded him. The only UN soldier to die in the Srebrenica offensive, was killed by the Muslims.
Carlos Martins Branco European University Institute Department of Social and Political Sciences Badia Fiesolana Italy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Carpathian Wolf
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BANNED Joined: 06-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 884 |
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Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 06:31 |
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Heaven - safe for Islamic terrorists!
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It was easy to defend the whole town, which was cut in the hills and at the end of one wide valley. [Bosnian Muslim leader of Srebrenica forces] Naser Oric and his people went from that almost unconquerable place in the series of atrocious attacks on the near-by Serbian areas. The most well known and most atrocious one took place in January of 1993. Oric himself admitted that he liquidated all those imprisoned. He justified himself that "the rules of his religion did not allow him to do otherwise..." The above quote is from: French General, Phillip Morion, Commander of the UN Forces in Bosnia, in his book: "Words of a Soldier" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a cold and snowy night, I sat in his [Oric's] living room watching a shocking video version of what might had been called Nasir Oric's Greatest Hits. There were burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing. Oric grinned throughout admiring his handiwork. "We ambushed them," he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen. The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: "We launched those guys to the moon," he boasted. When a footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: "We killed 114 Serbs there." Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises. The above quote is from: "The Toronto Star" By Bill Schiller July 16, 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Safe among refugees - used as hostages
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Naser Oric, the 24 year-old army commander of Srebrenica, first came to prominence in March, 1993. At that time, the charismatic UNPROFOR General, Philippe Morillon, demanded that - if the town was to become a so-called "safe area" - then Naser Oric must hand over his weapons to the Canadian UNPROFOR troops. Oric dismissed the demand and halted the evacuation of the town's women and children. Faced with angry demonstrations as the townsfolk stampeded on to UN trucks, the Muslim commander said that he would "screw up those convoys", preferring to maintain a human shield of 9,000 civilians for Srebrenica's 8,000 fighters. The above quote is from: Fear and Loathing in Srebrenica "The Scotsman" April 16, 1994 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The refugees in Srebrenica, most of them Muslim women and children who fled [from Serbs] into Srebrenica... in the spring of 1993, have been desperate to leave the town ever since they arrived. Instead, they have been forced to remain by the local Muslim warlord, Naser Oric, who drove around town in a Mercedes while the refugees sustained on meagre UN handouts and were, occasionally, sold water by Srebrenica residents during the brutally-hot summers. Mr. Oric and the Bosnian government knew that if the majority of refugees were allowed to be trucked across Serb-held territory to Tuzla or some other viable sanctuary, both the UN protection and any hope of holding on to the remote and surrounded enclave would be lost.
The Srebrenica residents treated the refugees atrociously. When the refugees elected a representative to present their demands to Oric, the representative was murdered within hours...
The above quote is from: "Globe and Mail" July 12, 1995 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mafia rules Srebrenica
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Some of the local SDA [Muslim Party officials], such as Ibran Mustafic and the former mayor of Srebrenica, Besim Ibisevic, who had fled from the city in April 1992, consequently depicted the rule of Naser Oric as a black period in the city’s history in which violence, murder, rape and large-scale fraud with humanitarian aid were commonplace... In the opinion of many outsiders Oric and the clique surrounding him which ran the municipality (in particular Hamdija Fejzic and Osman Suljic) were one big mafia gang. The situation reports of the NGOs and Dutchbat [Dutch "UN" battalion serving in Srebrenica "safe heaven"] refer to ‘the mafia’ or ‘mafia practices’. As early as the Canadian period, a major increase in internal armed fights in the enclave had been observed which, Canadian Battalion Commander J.Champagne said, primarily revolved around Oric’s mafia practices which regularly led to conflicts and power struggles.
The above quote is from: Dutch Government Report Chapter 7: "Dutchbat in the enclave – the local perspective" ============================== Srebrenica sex slaves
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Some people who belonged to this so-called [Oric] mafia also had nasty practices in other areas. Some ABiH [Bosnian Muslim Army] heavyweights, such as Oric himself, used the prestige and power they enjoyed among a large part of the population to get young girls, often no older than 14 or 15 years old, to provide sexual services. They often had a number of brief relationships with girlfriends, whilst their wives were outside the enclave. There was a lot of prostitution and sexual abuse. From the moment the Canadian battalion arrived, reports came in of girls offering themselves to Canadian soldiers or being offered by their fathers or brothers in exchange for food, cigarettes and the like. Later, during the Dutchbat period, Oric’s own soldiers appeared to be their most important clients. The above quote is from: Dutch Government Report Chapter 7: "Dutchbat in the enclave – the local perspective" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Escaping rape in Srebrenica
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The Scotsman
16 April 1994 Published under title: "Fear and Loathing in Srebrenica" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For fair use only
Published under the provision of U.S. Code, Title 17, section 107. NOTE: The subtitles are ours.
QUOTE:
Escape to the Serbian side
This is the story of a girl who was raped in the midst of a civil war, not by her enemies, but by men who claimed to protect her. The brutality and horror of the conflict in Bosnia and Herzegovina has been measured over the last two bloodstained years, less by death and wounds, but by rape. Almost from the first fighting, rape - actual, threatened and rumoured - became a tool of terror and control. Now, in the chaos and lawlessness of the Muslim enclaves in southern Bosnia, a new pattern of the same crime is emerging.
Only a few survivors have yet been able to testify to these latest events. One of them is Vehida Dedic. Raped and beaten by a gang of men led by the Bosnian Muslim commander of Srebrenica, Naser Oric, she was left with no-one to turn to in her own town. For her, crossing the lines into the hands of an army which was shelling the people around her, was the only means of escape.
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A rotund, gentle, elderly man, a lawyer from Belgrade, sits in the cramped, dusty office of a disused factory in the Bosnian Serb town of Bratunac. Opposite him is a tall, thick-set young Serb soldier, toying with a handgun, slumped in a chair. A diminutive 15 year-old girl enters and the two men stiffen. They each know why she is here. The soldier is the girl's temporary warder. She is, after all, an object of some curiosity in Bratunac [a Serbian town next to Srebrenica]: an infiltrator from across the nearby front-line. The lawyer is here to take a statement for Yugoslavia's own War Crimes Tribunal. Vehida Dedic, visibly in pain and with one side of her face swollen by toothache, tells her story.
"I was desperate. I realised that I couldn't live there any more ... I was thinking of committing suicide." As fighting spread across Bosnia and Herzegovina, Vehida and her family had fled from their village of Pobudje to the nearby Muslim enclave of Srebrenica. Vehida, initially in makeshift refugee accommodation, had recently found space - although no protection - in a house in the centre of Srebrenica. It was there that she met the town's commander.
Muslim commander's bordello
"Two months ago, I moved to that house. I lived there until the first of April. Every second evening or so, Naser Oric used to come, usually with a different woman. He was always followed into the house by three Muslim soldiers." "On the 27th of March, they came again. I made coffee, as the housekeeper told me to. Then the three soldiers ordered me to another room. I knew their names: Safet, Serd and Ibro, [all Muslim names] boys of 20 years, all three from the village of Glogove. When I entered the room, the soldiers told me to strip off, lie down on the bed and have sex with them. I started protesting. I tried to free myself. At one point, I tried to jump through the window; this was upstairs. Safet caught me and started to beat me on the face and body. Then all three started to beat me and take off my clothes. That's how they stripped me naked. Safet was the first to rape me. After that, Serd and Ibro raped me as well."
Vehida's quiet, measured voice continues, weakened only by her swollen mouth. She holds back tears and stares into the lawyer's eyes. She remains outwardly calm. "By the end, I was unconscious. I came round before dawn. I realised that I was alone and naked, and the door of the room was open. The rape started around eight in the evening. I don't know when they left the room."
"At first, I couldn't stand up. Then I dressed, and went to find the housekeeper. When I found her I told her what had happened, but she just laughed at me. In the morning, Commander Oric came back, so I told him what his comrades had done to me. He hit me and swore at me."
Vehida Dedic's only culpability had been to trust those around her. Now, she was to be victimised by all. "I went to the Muslim police, to complain to them. But when I told them what happened, they shouted 'Get out of here!' and threw me out of the police station. 'You have complained to Naser', they said 'If he didn't help you, nobody can!'"
Human shield for terrorists
Naser Oric, the 24 year-old army commander of Srebrenica, first came to prominence in March, 1993. At that time, the charismatic UNPROFOR General, Philippe Morillon, demanded that - if the town was to become a so-called "safe area" - then Naser Oric must hand over his weapons to the Canadian UNPROFOR troops. Oric dismissed the demand and halted the evacuation of the town's women and children. Faced with angry demonstrations as the townsfolk stampeded on to UN trucks, the Muslim commander said that he would "screw up those convoys", preferring to maintain a human shield of 9,000 civilians for Srebrenica's 8,000 fighters. Once she had been publicly victimised, Vehida Dedic had no future in Srebrenica. But she had the idea to escape, inspired by two other rape survivors, from a chance encounter: "I met two girls who had been in Bratunac and wanted to get back to Srebrenica, in a prisoner exchange. Their nicknames were Ceca and Buba. They came from the village of Tegere. They told me that they were okay in Bratunac, but when they came back to Srebrenica they had both been raped. When they complained to the police like I did, the police told them to go to Naser."
The U.N. treats civilians - as hostages!
Vehida persuaded a girlfriend, Serifa, [also a muslim] to come with her on the five mile walk across the front-line, to Bratunac. But by this time - under Naser Oric's instructions, and with the active compliance of the UN - Srebrenica had effectively become a prison. The walk was almost suicidal. "The only way out was down the main road from Srebrenica to [the Serb held] Bratunac. If we went into the hills, someone could have shot us. There were Muslim positions there. We could have found some Muslim soldiers who could have killed us. So we went down the street." "Myself and Serifa walked out from Srebrenica. But, when we came to the UN guards, they prevented us from going on and told us that they would shoot at us. They were very short with us. They ordered us to go back to Srebrenica ... but we didn't want to go."
Rescued from a minefield
"So the two of us agreed to bypass the UN guards. We crossed a stream about five kilometres from their post and went on our way to Serbian territory ... where the Serbian soldiers were posted. At about half past twelve we reached their positions. A Serb soldier saw us and beckoned. Then we saw that we were in the middle of a minefield. We asked the soldier to come and take us out ... so that we didn't step on a mine. He came and took us to the Serb guns. The Serb soldiers gave us gave us food. Then they took us to Bratunac by car. Sarifa was taken to hospital, she was pregnant." The lawyer completes his notes. The statement is concluded. But now, what will happen to Vehida? What can be done for someone so totally dispossessed? "In no way would I ever go back to Srebrenica ... I want, if I can, to stay here and live in Bratunac. But if they won't let me, I'll go on, to Valjevo, to see my grandmother ... she's called Dessa Mehmedovic." But no-one knew if Dessa Mehmedovic was still alive.
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