Mongols versus Western Europe post-1241

The Mongols would come across a few problems with a European campaign. At the time, there were fields of trees in Western Europe. Horses, especially horse archers, do not maneuver well in dense foliage. The Mongols' strength was in its horse archers, without them the Mongols would be at a disadvantage. Arrows might often miss their target, leaving their front ranks open for European knights. Attila the Hun learned this in his campaign against the Roman Empire in the mid fourth century A.D.

There also might have been revolts across the Empire. Before departing for Europe in 1240, the Mongols sent toumans to keep their Empire in strict order. Three touman, or 30,000 Mongol soldiers were stationed in conquered western Russian territory alone.

The Mongols would also come across issues with the Egyptian Muslims. The Muslims routed the Mongols at Ain Jalut in 1260, at Albistan in 1277 and at Homs in 1281. The Egyptians saved Europe by defeating the Mongols at these battles. So, the answer is in history the Mongols could not conquer Western Europe.


Edited by Darius of Parsa - 13-Jun-2008 at 06:21

Mongols absolutely could conquer Europe without much problem. European kingdoms were dwarfes compare to the Chinese states and Kwarezmian empire destoyed by Mongols. European armies were a joke against Mongolian force. What caused Mongols' retreat was the death of the great khan and the urgent necessity of Batu's presence in Karakorum.

 

Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf Stefan the Great defeated the Mongols at Lipnic and since then they never returned to Europe. There were also several Russian figures that defeated the Mongols.   So to say Egypt saved europe from the Mongols? I think Egypt saved itself from the Mongols would be more accurate.

"Mongols absolutely could conquer Europe without much problem. European kingdoms were dwarfes compare to the Chinese states and Kwarezmian empire destoyed by Mongols."

Hello Sarmat

At Ain Jalut, The mongols had two tumens, some 6 thousand Armenians+Georgians and about 10 thousand Auybids from Homs. The highest estimate of the Mamelukes was 60k and the lowest, and earliest by the way, was 40 thousand, so hardly outnumbered I would say. There were two or three other tumens in the rest of Syria and were all defeated by the Spring of 1261. hulegu had the power to mass an army, he was in Maraghah after all, and "distroy" the mamelukes but he failed to do so especially when we know that Baibars reached Diyarbakir (Hasan Kayfa) the heart of mongol controlled lands when he was in Iran yet for some unknown reason he decided not to go to war. For the rest of the mongol-Mameluke wars, the armies were even with mongols having the upper hand due to Auybid, Armenia and western European support.

As for why did the mongols not go into europe, well as ataman said, europe was a jungle and when you look at it carefully, you will find that all the battles were fought in steppe like areas not forests, and eventually, with millions between them and the rest of europe and europe beeing so densly populated, I really doubt if they were to go beyond where they reached because europeans were not bad in guerilla wars (remeber Arminius and Teutburg Forest).

Al-Jassas

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello Sarmat At Ain Jalut, The mongols had two tumens, some 6 thousand Armenians+Georgians and about 10 thousand Auybids from Homs. The highest estimate of the Mamelukes was 60k and the lowest, and earliest by the way, was 40 thousand, so hardly outnumbered I would say. There were two or three other tumens in the rest of Syria and were all defeated by the Spring of 1261. hulegu had the power to mass an army, he was in Maraghah after all, and "distroy" the mamelukes but he failed to do so especially when we know that Baibars reached Diyarbakir (Hasan Kayfa) the heart of mongol controlled lands when he was in Iran yet for some unknown reason he decided not to go to war. For the rest of the mongol-Mameluke wars, the armies were even with mongols having the upper hand due to Auybid, Armenia and western European support. As for why did the mongols not go into europe, well as ataman said, europe was a jungle and when you look at it carefully, you will find that all the battles were fought in steppe like areas not forests, and eventually, with millions between them and the rest of europe and europe beeing so densly populated, I really doubt if they were to go beyond where they reached because europeans were not bad in guerilla wars (remeber Arminius and Teutburg Forest). Al-Jassas

"Really?"

Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf   Really. Most of the Mongol Empire was steppe. The chinese empire was broken into two and in internal strife. They fell in chunks to the Mongols.

Venetians certainly had contact with the Mongols, they were buying Qipchak slaves from them before selling them to Egypt.

Not specifically. Most of what I know comes from Soldiers of Fortune by Sir John Glub, and Fredrick II of Hohenstaufen by Georgina Masson. They focus on the Mamluke Dynasty and Fredrick II but naturally they describe many of the states around them (especially their enemies)  to a much lessor extent too.