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Is Germanic a subgroup of the Iranian languages?

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Germanic a subgroup of the Iranian languages?
    Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 14:44
There were certainly several migrations in eastern and northeastern Europe where ancient Iranian and Germanic peoples lived, some of them, like Alans and Vandals, even migrated together to the western Europe, but these migrations could be just one of reasons for the linguistic similarities between Germanic and Iranian languages.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 14:49
What do you think about others?Just expose me your story and periods of time it have happened?
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 15:37
As I have mentioned in several threads, I believe the original land of Iranian-speaking people where somewhere around modern Poland and Scandinavia, probably in the third millennium BC, they migrated to the southern regions, after this migration their language mixed with Indian languages and some known Iranian languages were formed, but these people preserved their original language and culture too, it is true that from proto IE kmtom, there is Sanskrit sata (hund/hundred) which is changed to Persian sad but we see Persians call Sindhu as Hindu (s->h & dh->d), it shows these sound changes existed in the Iranian languages, another good example is the Irainain origin word hemp: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=hemp&searchmode=none proto-Germanic hanapiz and Greek kannabis (cannabis).
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 16:20
I tried to make a post, that supported your basic opinions Cyrus, but I seem to have lost it!

I just wish that Gcle-2003 was still active on this site?

It is only the modern and accepted time-lines that caused much of the problems you must have had with him/her?

Of course, since I do not follow such "time-lines" for certain reasons, then the discourses of gcle-2003, whould have been somewhat softened?

Edited by opuslola - 22-Feb-2011 at 16:24
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 16:36
Dear medenaywe, when it comes to language, distance counts for very little! What must be looked at is the "secret" language used by the leaders, rulers, priests, etc., of the "Over Lords" of the area!

You see? I see Latin as a "secret language" of the "overlords!" There could not have existed a reliable ruling class with hundereds of "slaves" or "underlings" of a differing civilization, who were allowed to wonder hither to and fro, within the domains of the ruling Lords and Ladies, if they were able to translate the words of their Lords and Ladies?

It, any good language, was kept secret to those of lower classes, so as to keep "secrets!

Greek, might well be another example? Since it is all "Greek" to me!

It has been written that the early Latin Rulers of Greece, after the fall of Constantinople, to the Latin's, used "Greek" stone inscriptions to identify their possessions!

Funny what?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 22-Feb-2011 at 16:40
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 16:59
My start point for reviving this topic was my old and your's also thesis that people had started colonization of European land from African and Asian territories!That does not means German lands were not inhabited
by natives before!I believe main colonization process was during the Rome.But who were people that have started this as majority or majorities?!?


Edited by medenaywe - 24-Feb-2011 at 13:57
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2011 at 13:12
There were mostly Europeans who occupied some Asian and probably African territories, the fact is that the earliest civilizations were formed in these regions and they were better places to live in the ancient times than European lands, I think Iran can be compared to the modern USA, some different Indo-European peoples migrated there and established an advanced civilization, and then became a superpower, much more powerful than Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and other old powers of the region.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2011 at 14:41
In Your last post was spoken about Iran.This part is clear part of world puzzle for me.Reading all above it is supposed by me that DNA facts were also non contradictory against your facts.Germans appeared in regions,they have not been at all,with strange language concept:Roman,Keltic,Persian etc.  My premise is:Rome  and  Romans  used  mercenaries.People from everywhere also Persia were used like mercenaries.Were they colonized in Central European region?This was complex process,connected  with probabilities,that cast of soldiers mercenaries had had  special status in Roman Empire.Let us talk
about this only!Will develop story with your help!
 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2011 at 15:08
I think the period of time that we talked in this thread is long before the appearance of Romans as a major power, I don't understand the connection between Colonization and Irano-Germanic relation!
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2011 at 15:23
But there are connection among languages:Roman,Phoenician and Greek?They had common ancestor,Persian.If you create Empire will call your citizens fellows to take part in screenplay?I agree,maybe part of them already have been there.Premise is:They had hired mercenaries that would been trustful and skilled for war games in same time.
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2011 at 21:30
The answer to such a question is simply no. Germanic is not a sub-grouping of the Iranic language family nor vice versa. They are similar because they are both subgroups of the Indo-European language family.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 17:35
Originally posted by beorna

The blue ones are Vandals. The Alans become one with the Vandals, allthough Geiserich was king of both, all appear under the term of Vandals


Since this integrated band of people matriculated into the area of Espanga, and surrounding area, did the Alans in the movement also join with locals? That is, just where did the Cat-Alans come from?

Ron
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 23:15
Originally posted by opuslola

Originally posted by beorna

The blue ones are Vandals. The Alans become one with the Vandals, allthough Geiserich was king of both, all appear under the term of Vandals


Since this integrated band of people matriculated into the area of Espanga, and surrounding area, did the Alans in the movement also join with locals? That is, just where did the Cat-Alans come from?

Ron

When it says The Alans become one with the Vandals, this in no way encompasses anywhere near The Alans as a whole.

opuslola, Cat-Alans stands for Goths and Alans. 
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 02:11
Again Germanic is not a subgrouping of the Iranic languages. There are some languages distantly related of the same family that keep certain terminologies while the rest of them leave i. How could Germanic be a subgrouping of Iranic?
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 11:03
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Again Germanic is not a subgrouping of the Iranic languages. There are some languages distantly related of the same family that keep certain terminologies while the rest of them leave i. How could Germanic be a subgrouping of Iranic?

Absolutely correct. These two linguistic groups are seperated for several thousands of years and Germanic as well did not participate in the satem shift.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 11:10
Originally posted by opuslola

Originally posted by beorna

The blue ones are Vandals. The Alans become one with the Vandals, allthough Geiserich was king of both, all appear under the term of Vandals


Since this integrated band of people matriculated into the area of Espanga, and surrounding area, did the Alans in the movement also join with locals? That is, just where did the Cat-Alans come from?

Ron

It is unknown what origin Catalonia has, but that it has nothing to do with the Alans is quite sure. Alans were settled in Lusitania and in central parts of the terraconensis, but not in Catalonia. But here was a Goth reign called Gothia or as well Septimania.
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 14:09
Originally posted by beorna


Absolutely correct. These two linguistic groups are seperated for several thousands of years and Germanic as well did not participate in the satem shift.


Which is why Im a bit astonished why this question was brought up in the first place and even more astonished that people are still debating without giving the simple answer: no.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 15:16
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by beorna


Absolutely correct. These two linguistic groups are seperated for several thousands of years and Germanic as well did not participate in the satem shift.


Which is why Im a bit astonished why this question was brought up in the first place and even more astonished that people are still debating without giving the simple answer: no.

Because there is no myth wacky enough to be not repeated on and on, as it seemsLOL
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2013 at 03:23
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

The answer to such a question is simply no. Germanic is not a sub-grouping of the Iranic language family nor vice versa. They are similar because they are both subgroups of the Indo-European language family.
 


The most important thing is that the answer is not simply no as we thought before, of course it is also difficult to say which one is a subgroup of another one, but the relation between Iranian and Germanic languages is much more than a similarity because their common Indo-European origin.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2013 at 05:39
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


The most important thing is that the answer is not simply no as we thought before, of course it is also difficult to say which one is a subgroup of another one, but the relation between Iranian and Germanic languages is much more than a similarity because their common Indo-European origin.

Cyrus, neither the one nor the other is a sub-group of the other one. The origins of the later iranian people lay inside the Andronowo-culture, while the origins of the later germanic lay inside the corded ware. The Andronowo culture is based on older cultures, e.g. the yamna culture. That means, that the differentiation between the later germanics and iranians is older than 5000 years. But before e.g. evolved as own family, it lasted again several thousand years and the Corded ware people differentiated as well into branches, like Balto-Slavic.


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