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Indo-European, Yenisseian, Altaic
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gok_toruk View Drop Down
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indo-European, Yenisseian, Altaic
    Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 10:48

Proto – Altaic: eba

Meaning: to join, meet


Turkic: ab- (come together; crowd), 
Tungus-Manchu: ebu-re-
Proto-Korean: abor
Middle Korean: a’or
Old Japanese: ap

Proto Indo-European: ap- (to clench, to tie round)
Hittite: ep(p)- / ap(p)- (“fassen”)
Avestan: apayeiti
Old Indian: apnoti (to meet)

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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gok_toruk View Drop Down
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 10:49
Turkic: ay- (to become bright), ay-dyn (bright) 
Proto-Yenisseian: 
Yugh: an-es (morning)

Proto Indo-European: ay-er (morning)
Old Greek: aerio
Germanicic: air-a-
Avestan: ayary

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 10:53

Proto-Altaic: ere, eri

Meaning: early


Turkic: er, ir, er-te,
Mongolian: erte
Tungus-Manchu: erü-n
Middle & Modern Korean: iri


Germanic: aira-
Celtic: athir

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 10:54

Proto-Altaic: karu

Meaning: black


Turkic: qara, kara
Mongolian: qara, xara
Old Japanese: kurwo
Middle Japanese: kuro


Proto-Yenisseian: kiri-m
Ket: kiri-m (plural: kiring)

Proto Indo-European: kerys-
Old Greek: karümo-
Baltic: kersh-a

Notes: 


Edited by gok_toruk - 09-Jun-2008 at 11:11
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 11:00

Proto-Altaic: ng’iole

Meaning: pink; yellow


Turkic: al
Mongolian: öle 
Tungus-Manchu: ng’ule

Proto Indo-European: alyw- (tin, light-yellow)
Hittite: hali
Slavic: olovo
Baltic: alw-a-s
Germanic: ilw-a-

Notes: Turkic and Mongolian (of Altaic languages) have lost the nasal in the beginning of the word)


Edited by gok_toruk - 09-Jun-2008 at 11:18
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 11:14
Could you give me the source for 'olovo' please?? It doesn't mean 'yellow' today, it means plumbum (lead).
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 11:58

"Olovo" meant "tin" (not lead) in Slavic. Now, I don't know the exact Slavic document, but "olovo" is from old Church Slavic (according to Dr. Sergei  Starostin):

"olovü" = "tin" in old Russian

"olovo" = "tin" in Czech

 

The meaning "light yellow" has been taken from the color tin resembles: color "olovo" means "color of 'olovo'  ". It might not be that simple! I mean, I might be wrong; but we see for instance in Persian:

 

"abi" = "blue" (originally "related to water")

"ghahve'i" = "brown" (originally "related to coffee")

"narenji" = "orange" (originally "related to orange-the fruit orange")

 

I might be wrong, anyhow. You know, this is just a simple awkward study.



Edited by gok_toruk - 09-Jun-2008 at 12:01
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 12:10
I checked the Russian, and it means tin in Russian, but in Czech it is lead. 'tin' in Czech is 'cín'.
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Posts: 1138 		  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 12:44
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

I checked the Russian, and it means tin in Russian, but in Czech it is lead. 'tin' in Czech is 'cín'.

How close are Czech and Slovak languages?
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 12:51
Since childhood we speak both, and watch Czech TV channels without realizing it's a foreign language. That's how close they areBig%20smile

Anyway, how close is Lithuanian to Latvian?


Edited by Slayertplsko - 09-Jun-2008 at 12:51
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 13:24
You are doing the same, have you asked yourself what the origin of Hengest was? as you read here, Hengest was the name of a Saxon chieftain.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hengest_and_Horsa : Hengest or Hengist (d. 488?) was a semi-legendary ruler of Kent in southeast England. His name is common Germanic for "stallion". He is paired in the early sources with his brother Horsa ("horse").
 
What is the synonym of "Hengestman"? Hanger-on, yes? Aren't these words similar? do you think all these words relate to "Stallion"?
Hanger-on? What is that from, I'm not sure I follow at all. A Hengestman was originally a a title given to stable staff of a Noble. And I have heard of the Hero, but I fail to see how someone's name proves any kind of point?
Here's more information for you, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henchmen
And incase if you don't read it, you say Henchmen has always ment a follower, here's when it actually really started to be used in that form of a definition,
The modern sense of "obedient or unscrupulous follower" is first recorded 1839, probably based on a misunderstanding of the word as used by Scott, and is often used to describe an out-and-out adherent or partisan, ready to do anything.
 
Sorry guys for taking it off topic further, if this little discussion continues, I'll continue it in another thread as not to disturb this discussion anymore.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Posts: 1138 		  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 13:35
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Since childhood we speak both, and watch Czech TV channels without realizing it's a foreign language. That's how close they areBig%20smile

Anyway, how close is Lithuanian to Latvian?

Sadly not so close that people could interact with each other without problems. Almost like English and German. Tough those who live on the border don't have any problems to communicate with each other.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 17:28
Originally posted by gok_toruk

You might be right Mixcoatl. Could you please explain... what should be done instead? 

comparing grammar, structure, sound inventory. Things that require a thourough knowledge of the languages you want to compare.

But in any case, even if nothing could be done instead that doesn't make flawed methods suddenly less flawed.
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 17:34
True. But there's a problemBig%20smile

To speak for myself, in this case I can speak only for Slavic, Romance and Germanic languages (and for Romance only a bit). So this means that I can't compare two language familiesBig%20smile

I wish I could speak at least Hungarian...

Gok_toruk could share his knowledge on other language families (what's your native language anyway?)


Edited by Slayertplsko - 09-Jun-2008 at 17:35
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 18:17

My mother tongue is Turkmen. So, I can tell you about Turkic, as well as Mongolian and Tungus-Manchu. About Korean and Japanese, I can only check my word list.

I also know a bit about Yenisseian or languages like Chukchee. Let's give it a try Slayertplsko.



Edited by gok_toruk - 14-Aug-2008 at 12:12
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 18:42
You can check grammatical and syntactical similarities/differences between languages without necessarily being able to speak them. All you need is the necessary reference books (of course if you're wanting to check the reference books are correct, that's different).
 
It is for instance fairly simple to ascertain that the Western Romance languages (French, Portuguese, Spanish) and English generally form the plural by adding 's', whereas Italian and German, say, don't, even if you don't speak any of those languages. 


Edited by gcle2003 - 09-Jun-2008 at 18:43
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 18:52
Originally posted by gok_toruk

You know Flipper, I've always wondered why some Altaic and Indo-European words seemed to share the same root (like these numbers). At first, I only compared Altaic with Indo-European; but then I thought languages (geographically) between these two language groups, such as Yenisseian might have some similar traits too. 

It's suggested in Linguistics, as Slayertplsko also mentioned. But we need more proof.



Thanks!
Nevertheless, you've made some good notes.


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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 19:29

Proto – Altaic: aya

Meaning: to go, walk


Turkic: ay- 
Mongolian: aya-
Tungus-Manchu: ay-
Japanese: ayum

Proto-Yenisseian: heyV-ng (heyang, heyeng, heying, heyong, heyung)
Ket: eyeng
Yugh: eying
Kottish: heyang

Proto Indo-European: ey-
Old Persian: ayiti
Old Greek: eimi
Baltic: ey-

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 19:31

Proto – Altaic: nera (probably “ ng’era “)

Meaning: earth,floor


Turkic: yer 
Mongolian: jir
Tungus-Manchu: ner-ke

Proto-Indo-European: er-
Hittite: irha- (border)
Armenian: er-kir (earth)
Old Greek: era

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posts: 1831 		  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jun-2008 at 19:33

I've just found this one. Interesting to see a religous common word:

Proto – Altaic: tang’giri
Meaning: oath, God

Turkic: tangry, tengry 
Mongolian: tangarag (oath)
Tungus-Manchu: tangura- (to bow in front of gods while praying)
Proto-Japanese: tinkir-
Old Japanese: tig(j)ir- (to swear)

Proto-Yenisseian: ting’gVr- (ting’gar, ting’ger, ting’gir, ting’gor, ting’gur) = high
Ket: ting’gyl
Yugh: ting’gil
Pumpokol: tokar-du

Proto-Indo-European: dangh- (sky, heavenly body)
Baltic: dang-u-
Germanic: tung-l-a- n
Slavic: daga (???)

Notes: 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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