Indo-European, Yenisseian, Altaic

You know Flipper, I've always wondered why some Altaic and Indo-European words seemed to share the same root (like these numbers). At first, I only compared Altaic with Indo-European; but then I thought languages (geographically) between these two language groups, such as Yenisseian might have some similar traits too. 

It's suggested in Linguistics, as Slayertplsko also mentioned. But we need more proof.

Edited by gok_toruk - 08-Jun-2008 at 16:18

I can give you the Arabic numerals:
1 - wahed
2 - ithnan
3 - thalaatha
4 - arbaa
5 - khamsa
6 - setta
7 - sabaa
8 - tessa
9 - thamanya
10 - ashra

This is how I remember them at least...I'm right back with more language families.

Slayertplsko, you have absolutely nothing to say, except to copy and paste from a dictionary! I wished you bother yourself to think a little before doing it, if "henchman" means "follower" in English then this word certainly relate other similar Indo-European words which mean the same, maybe you believe it is not an Indo-European word?!

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Slayertplsko, you have absolutely nothing to say, except to copy and paste from a dictionary! I wished you bother yourself to think a little before doing it, if "henchman" means "follower" in English then this word certainly relate other similar Indo-European words which mean the same, maybe you believe it is not an Indo-European word?!

No, you're wrong buddy. I do think, but the difference is that you're playing very loose with words here. (and contradict yourself in other threads)

henchman also means follower...true...but it's you who doesn't think here - it doesn't necessarily mean that it comes from Persian!!! (and now it's Persian - interesting!...it used to be Scythian for instance)

And since I DO think, it occurred to me that the probability that it be so well-preserved since the times of PIE (let alone Persian) is extremely low. Therefore a thinking person asks a question: is it possible that it comes from Persian and/or is related to that word in Persian?? The answer is, almost no possibility. And then a thinking person checks the etymology and discovers 'stallion+man' - and then I tried to trace it back as far as possible. And now - whence does the Persian word come from???

A non-thinking person will, however, link the Persian and English word immediately.
I've got a strange feeling this has something to do with your statement that Old Saxon and Persian use 'an' suffix for infinitive...this is a true, albeit a very silly remark...if you ever studied at least ONE other Germanic language, you wouldn't have said that. It is one of your statements proving you be incapable of the 'correct thinking' when it comes to Germanic languages.




Edited by Slayertplsko - 08-Jun-2008 at 18:13

Proto – Altaic: ena

Meaning: mother; elder sister

Turkic: ana, ene 
Tungus-Manchu: eni
Middle Korean: yni

Proto-Yenisseian: ama
Ket: am
Kottish: ama

Proto Indo-European: an- (grandmother)
Hittite: hanna-s
Armenian: han
Old Greek: anon
Baltic: an-ia
Germanic: an-en-
Latin: anus

Notes: 

Proto – Altaic: tayV (taya, taye, tayi, tayo, tayu)

Meaning: elder in-law, elder relative

Turkic: dayi
Tungus-Manchu: da-
Proto-Japanese: dia, dai

Proto Indo-European: daiw-er- (husband’s brother)
Old Greek: daer
Baltic: deiwe-, dewier-ia
Armenian: taigr
Germanic: taikr-a-

Notes: 

Proto-Altaic: ete

Meaning: father

Turkic: ata, ete
Mongolian: echige
Tungus-Manchu: (x)eti-
Middle Korean: ata (man)
Old Japanese: titi, wo-di


Proto-Yenisseian: patV (pata, pate, pati, pato, patu)
Meaning: father-in-law

Kottish: pateg
Arin: apati

Proto Indo-European: pa-t-er- (father)
Old Indian & Avestan: pitar
Old Greek: pater, patros
Germanic: fader
Celtic: athir

Notes: All Altaic languges, except Old Japanese, has lost "p" at the beginning of the word. old Japanese has preserved its light form "w". Anyhow, one might argue that, here, "w" has been added on its own (and not as the light form of "p"), just like adding "h" to the beginning of the words in Turkic or Mongolian:

"hödür" instead of "ödür", for instance.

Edited by gok_toruk - 08-Jun-2008 at 19:17

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy Slayer is correct. I'm sure the linguists who put English dictionaries together for a living understand the origin quite well. From dictionary.com: hench·man  Audio Help   /ˈhɛntʃmən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hench-muhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -men. 1. an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate, esp. a criminal: The leader of the gang went everywhere accompanied by his henchmen. 2. an unscrupulous supporter or adherent of a political figure or cause, esp. one motivated by the hope of personal gain: Hitler and his henchmen. 3. a trusted attendant, supporter, or follower. 4. Obsolete. a squire or page. [Origin: 1325–75; ME henchman, henshman, henksman, hengestman, OE hengest stallion (c. G Hengst) + man man1] Shows four words from M.English that have it's origin from O.English, and Slayer mentions above it can be traced from Old Frisian which many OE words came from.

Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 09-Jun-2008 at 05:55

That's wrong again. And you have well proved that you don't think!

Firstly, your source again support us - they say that 'hengest' means stallion, not 'follow'. You even wrote this part in bolds here!
As for the name Hengest, it says it comes from the word for 'stallion'. That's normal, that's how the names emerge. For instance, Charles comes from the germanic word for 'freeman' (ceorl in OE). Or do you wanna say that 'Vladimir' predates the words 'vladar' and 'mir'??

As for the hanger-on - this is...OMG!!
It's a compound of 'on' and 'hanger', and the latter is a noun created from the verb 'hang'. I think it's obvious, I can't even imagine how you could link those two. Cyrus, start to think.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri   English First relates to Avestan fraeshta (Avestan Dictionary) and Middle Persin Frast which however means "first" too but originally means "foremost".

I question that. Do you have a source?  In  Scandinavian there are different: först, which means and is pronouced like first, and främst, which means foremost, and relates to "being in front".