Indo-European, Yenisseian, Altaic

I'm not here to defend on Nostratic Theory's side. I've only been trying to compare some primary words in these three language families lately. I hope this won't be one of those perviously marooned topics about linguistics.

I've started with numbers. One thing I've noticed in these 3 language families is that: 

as a model, almost all changes in consonants are only in the beginning position, and are only among these 5 cases (which all have close origins):

s / sh / p / q / ng:


“s”/”sh” <--> “p”

“p” <--> “q”

“ng” --> 1- n        2- g/gh/q (which could then change into "p")        3- to drop the nasal

“n” and “p” are sometimes added to the middle of the words (why?).

Proto – Altaic: pioke

Meaning: pair, couple

Mongolian: (h)ekire
Turkic: iki, eki
Sari Yughur: shiki
Shor: iygi
Middle Korean: pyky- (next, following)
Old Japanese: p(w)oka (other) 

English: second (just like Sari Yughur, the starting “p” has changed to “s”; “nd” is just an suffix here)


Notes: Turkic and Mongolian both has lost the Altaic “p” in the beginning; but Sari Yughur reveals this by preserving the consonant (here, with “sh” which is of the same origin). 

Shifts between “p” and “s/sh” (in Indo-European and Altaic correspondence) can be found also in other words like Turkic “sik-mek” and German “fick-en” (sorry for impoliteness): both have the same meanings; “mek” in the Turkic word as well as “en” in the German word are only suffixes.



Edited by gok_toruk - 08-Jun-2008 at 11:00

Proto – Altaic: paynga

Meaning: five

Proto-Ainu: as-ki 
Ainu: ashikne
Turkic: besh/bes

Proto – Yenisseian: 
Ket: qak, qang
Yugh: xak, xayeng

Proto Indo-European: penke, penkwe
Persian: panj
Albanian: pese

Notes: Lack of “n’ in Turkic “besh” is just like the case in: Latin “et” (“and”) and German “und” or Turkic “bat”/”bit” and Japanese “pinti”.

Ainu hast lost the initial “p/b”. 

Proto – Altaic: ngad

Meaning: seven

 

Proto-Ainu: adeh-dan (“dan” is a suffix)

Turkic: yeti

Sari Yughur: Ye-x-ti

Yakut: Setti

Chuvash: sech

Fu-yü Girgis: chiti

Karagas: tedy

Dolgan: hety

 

 

Proto Indo-European: se-p-t

Old Greek: hepta

Old Indian: sapta

Avestan: hapta

Slavic: sedm

 

Notes: Again shift between 5 consonants in the initial position.

 

There’s a “p” in the middle of the Indo-European word which Altaic lacks it. This is like Proto–Altaic “cha/sha” or “che/she” which means “eight”. Turkic has changed the initial “sh” to “s” and added the suffix “kür”: Proto – Turkic form is “se-kür” while Tungus-Manchu has added a “p” to the middle of the word to make “cha-p-kun”.  Sari Yughur in this case, has added “x” to the middle of the word.

Turkic: on

Meaning: ten

 

Ainu: wan

Proto–Japanese: təwə

Old Japanese: towo

 

Proto – Yenisseian: 1- tu- (tu-n) 2- tuk

Kottish: ton-tuku

 

 

Proto Indo-European: dek'm- (ten; hundred)

Old Greek: deka

 

Notes: Indo-European final “m” has turned into “n” or “ng” in Proto-Yenisseian.

Originally posted by gok_toruk Proto – Altaic: biuri Meaning: one Mongolian: büri (each one) Turkic: bir/pir, biri (Also “pitew/pitöw”, “unit; one”in Turkmen) Middle Korean: piris (at first, start) Old Japanese: pjito  Proto Indo-European: pery- English: first (it points to “pirst” where “st” is a suffix) German: erste (German has lost “p/b” in the beginning of the word) Notes: Two normal changes: 1- Shifts between consonants with the same origins (in this case, “r” with “d/t”). 2- Loss of “p/b” in the beginning position.

The Proto Germanic form is 'furisto', which is an adjective, a superlative of 'fur' and means 'foremost'. The 'f' is the result of Grimm's law, in this case it's PIE p => PGmc f.

Originally posted by gok_toruk Proto – Altaic: pioke Meaning: pair, couple Mongolian: (h)ekire Turkic: iki, eki Sari Yughur: shiki Shor: iygi Middle Korean: pyky- (next, following) Old Japanese: p(w)oka (other)  English: second (just like Sari Yughur, the starting “p” has changed to “s”; “nd” is just an suffix here) Notes: Turkic and Mongolian both has lost the Altaic “p” in the beginning; but Sari Yughur reveals this by preserving the consonant (here, with “sh” which is of the same origin).  Shifts between “p” and “s/sh” (in Indo-European and Altaic correspondence) can be found also in other words like Turkic “sik-mek” and German “fick-en” (sorry for impoliteness): both have the same meanings; “mek” in the Turkic word as well as “en” in the German word are only suffixes.

Originally posted by Slayertplsko This one wouldn't work. Henchman comes from hengest+man, and hengest meant 'stallion'. O.Fris. hengst, Du. hengest, Ger. Hengst "stallion", from PGmc khangistas.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Slayertplsko This one wouldn't work. Henchman comes from hengest+man, and hengest meant 'stallion'. O.Fris. hengst, Du. hengest, Ger. Hengst "stallion", from PGmc khangistas. This is either a fake etymology or "hengest" originally meant "follow" (a horse can be a good follower), anyway it is obvious that English "Hence" relates to Latin origin words "Sequence" & "Consequence".

Yours is correct yeah?? So what is your source??

No it is correct. 'hengest' meant stallion. 
1360, hengestman "high-ranking servant," originally "groom," from man + O.E. hengest "horse, stallion, gelding," from P.Gmc. *khangistas (cf. O.Fris. hengst, Du. hengest, Ger. Hengst "stallion"), probably lit. "best at springing," from PIE *kenku- (cf. Gk. kekiein "to gush forth;" Lith. sokti "to jump, dance;" Breton kazek "a mare," lit. "that which belongs to a stallion"). Became obsolete, but retained in Scottish as "personal attendant of a Highland chief," in which sense Scott revived it in literary Eng. in 1810. Sense of "obedient or unscrupulous follower" is first recorded 1839, probably based on a misunderstanding of the word as used by Scott.

As for 'hence'. This is - no offence - a stupid remark. 'hence' relates to 'thence' and 'whence' and is of Germanic origin.

And here is sequence:
1387, "hymn sung after the Hallelujah and before the Gospel," from O.Fr. sequence "answering verses" (13c.), from M.L. sequentia "a following, a succession," from L. sequentem (nom. sequens), prp. of sequi "to follow" (see sequel). In Church use, a partial loan-translation of Gk. akolouthia, from akolouthos "following." General sense of "succession," also "a sequence at cards," appeared 1575.

Cyrus you can get your nationalist pride out of your system in 'Saxon and Scythian' thread. It won't work well with Nostratic theory.


Edited by Slayertplsko - 08-Jun-2008 at 14:29

It's more a question that we know so little, we can generate a whole lot of widely different but equally valid versions.