Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Chameria (south epirus) Genocide

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
EthnicAlbania View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 13-May-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote EthnicAlbania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Chameria (south epirus) Genocide
    Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 06:15

The Genoncide

During the Conference of Ambassadors in London in 1913, the southern part of the region was cut off from the motherland and annexed to the Greek state despite the fact that people of the southern Epirus were Albanians of Orthodox and the Muslim faith. While the orthodox Albanians were targets of hellenization, the muslim Albanians were either exterminated or expelled from their ancestral lands by the Greek government.

Chams who lived in Southern Epirus (Chameria or Thesprotia as it is called by the Greeks) were the victims of the first ethnic cleansing in Europe at the end of the Second World War. The Cham tragedy is one of the most painful tragedies of the European continent. Statistical yearbook of the Greek government in 1936 showed that 26.000 Chams lived in Chameria region in Greece at that time.

As a result of the 1944-1945 ethnic cleansing and genocide, 30.000 Albanian Muslims were violently expelled from the Chameria region, and sought refuge in the Republic of Albania, where they still live. Today, there are 150.000 members of this population in Albania, a figure that has grown because of the high birth rate of the population. On the other hand, current number of Cham Albanians living in Greece is estimated at around 100.000. Yet these people are deprived of every sort of minority rights like other minorities living in Greece. To cite but one example, they can speak Albanian only in their homes.

The population of Chameria has always been ethnically Albanian: - A lot of voyagers and foreign historians wrote that Chameria had been populated by Albanians. Even the Greek historian Herodotus underscored this fact in his book Historias and called Albanians of the Chameria barbarians, a term used by the ancient Greeks to distinguish non-greek people. - The census held by the Turkish Administration in 1910 established that there were 83.000 orthodox and muslim Albanians in the region. The demographic map of the British military mission sent to the British government in London indicates that on the eve of the second World War, 75% of Chameria's population was Albanian. - The pro-Greek historian Spiro Muselimi, in his book "Historical Sight Through Thesprotia", edited in Joannina on 1974, wrote that "The bishop of Thesprotia in the year 1870 translated some parts of Bible into Albanian, as the people of orthodox faith of the region did not understand any word in Greek" .

The Greek authorities, sticking to the concept of absolute denial of the existence of ethnic groups on Greek territory, have followed a well-established chauvinistic policy and, as history recorded, they committed genocide against the Albanians of muslim faith. The racial assault on Chameria's muslim Albanians began to be first applied at the end of the Second World War, in 1944-1945, when criminal bands of the notorious General Napoleon Zervas perpetrated ethnic cleansing against them.

On June 27, 1944, Greek criminal bands resorted to the worst atrocities witnessed in this region. The terror committed against this population was beyond description. It included killings, rapes, inhuman treatment, massacre of women, babies and pregnant women. More than 1400 men, women and children were killed within 24 hours in the town of Paramithy, on Tuesday, June 27, 1944, which happened to be the date of St.Bartholomeus day for the whole Chameria.

During the June 1944-March 1945 period, 1286 persons were killed in Filat, 192 people were killed in Gumenica, 626 persons were killed in Margellic and Parga. There were hundreds of other missing persons. In the same period, as a result of Greek massacres, acts of robbery and rapes against the Albanian population of Chameria; 2900 young and old men, 214 women, 96 children were massacred, 745 women were raped, 76 women abducted, 32 children, younger than 3 years were massacred, 68 villages were razed to the ground, 5800 houses and places of worship were burned down or destroyed. Furthermore, 30.000 Albanian Muslims were violently expelled from the Chameria region who took refuge in the Republic of Albania.

The Albanian government, after the war, took the Cham issue to the Peace Conference in Paris. The conference of Foreign Ministers of the Allied Powers not only recognized the very difficult circumstances the Chams were subjected to, but also demanded repatriation and recovery of their property. The International Investigation Commission of the United Nations, appointed for the verification of the tragedy on both sides of the border, concluded its report in 1946-1947, replete with facts and evidence about the massacre and painful tragedy of the Cham people.

Realities of the recent history of Chameria require the attention of the international community. Greece cannot avoid but recognize the genocide of the Cham Albanians. The civil and legal rights of those currently living in Greece, estimated around 100.000 today, must be respected by Greece. According to the official Greek stand, the muslim population of Chameria, which numbers around 150.000 and still refugees in Albania will never be allowed to return to Greece because they allegedly collaborated with the German occupiers during the Second World War. They are considered as war criminals according to the Greek laws (K.Mitsotakis, Tirana, May 1992).

This hypothesis is untrue and fabricated. To consider a whole community as criminals, many members of which died in Greece's liberation struggle in the Second World War, is a political and historical crime against Cham Albanians. In 1994, the Parliament of the Albanian Republic proclaimed 27 June 1944 as the commemoration day for the massacred Albanians of Chameria, and a monument was built up in Konispol in memory of the victims of Chameria.

After 1945, with a view to changing the demographic structure of Chameria, its colonization with Greeks, Aromens and Gypsies was begun. Greece wanted the demographic structure of the province changed because it did not trust the rest of the Albanian population who remained there, even though they were of the Orthodox confession. Greece violently put an end to every attempt to preserve the identity of the Albanian population of the Orthodox belief and Albanian was prohibited to be spoken in public. Thereby, the assimilation of orthodox Albanians gained momentum. The fate of the orthodox Albanians was not much different than that of their Muslim brothers when it came to maintaining their ethnic identity.

YOU CANNOT COMPARE GENOCIDE WITH GENOCIDE PEOPLE STILL GET KILLED.


 


Edited by EthnicAlbania - 06-Jun-2008 at 23:17
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 08:12
Sources?
Back to Top
Vorian View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2007
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 566
  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 12:29
^^^www.greateralbania.com obviously....


During the time between the two World Wars, Greece was mostly lead by fasistic dictatorships that were cruel with the minorities that's true. However Chams joined the Axis during the Occupation and slaughtered many Greeks so when the Germans left partisans attacked their villages and forced them to flee to Albania as an act of retribution.

No Chams remained in Epirus, the only Albanians in Greece nowadays are the immigrants who entered the country in the 90's and still do.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 13:12

Listen Ethnic Albanina, I am giving you 24 hours to give me a source for what you have posted. If its online a link. If its from a book, give the name of author, title and ISBN number, a periodical, name of author, title, name of periodical and date of publishing.

I also want you to highlight/place in quote what is the source and what is your own commentry. And I want you to add your own commentary, if the paste is the post, it is unacceptable.
 
You have 24 hour or the next time you log in. Otherwise it shall be deleted and the thread locked.
 
Back to Top
Maharbbal View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 17:06
@ Sparten, just check wikipedia, they have well-balanced articles about the Chameria issue.

It is the usual sad story that keeps repeating itself in the Balkans and in Eastern Europe in general of a escalation in violence until one of the two groups manages to eradicate the other one way or the other. As usual the story evolves around two key periods: the end of the Ottoman rule and the 1930-1950 succession of struggles.

In this case the escalation pretty much goes as follow: in 1913, Epirus is divided in two, the North goes to Albania, the South to Greece, many Muslim Albanian caught on the Greek side of the border are part of a population exchange with Turkey after the Lausanne treaty.

Those left behind suffered intense discrimination under the pre-war fascist Greek government. The Muslim Chams happily welcomed the Axis invasion and commonly served as auxiliaries for the Italians in their anti-partisans campaigns (and the destruction of the Jewish Ionian communities). Their actions led to several massacres of Greek populations in Southern Epirus. As the German retreated, many Chams followed them. Those who stayed were offered to fight along the anti-communist EDES. As they refused, the EDES massacred many villages. More Chams moved to Albania.

Nowadays, the assimilation strategies of the Greek government and the pressure to destroy the Cham community's culture has almost totally wiped off their identity. It is a sad fact that the collaboration with the Axis by some Cham people served as an excuse for a culture-cide (the term genocide is absolutely improper here). The Greek government should recognized the importance of cultural diversity and the fact that the possibility to freely choose one's culture and language is a basic human right.

Regarding the Chameria independence issue, a population should be offered the choice to be independent (or unified with another nation if they wish to) via referendum. Of course this won't ever happen since governments are terrorised to empower the people and to see the artificial state construction fall apart.


Edited by Maharbbal - 05-Jun-2008 at 17:07
I am a free donkey!
Back to Top
Vorian View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2007
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 566
  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 17:15

Regarding the Chameria independence issue, a population should be offered the choice to be independent (or unified with another nation if they wish to) via referendum. Of course this won't ever happen since governments are terrorised to empower the people and to see the artificial state construction fall apart.


What you say here doesn't apply since there are no Chams in Epirus anymore, only their descendants that live in Albania. A referendum is completely in the realm of fiction and even if it happened the votes for would be close to 0%

I agree that the Chams were treated brutally but this was a harsh time in our country, together with Chams also Slavic-speaking populations were deported to Yugoslavia and Bulgaria and several thousands of Greek communists fled as well.
As for the issues raised by Albania on Chameria: The issue is dead. There are no Chams in Epirus anymore for good or bad and no country in its right mind would allow the resettlement of hostile people that breed like rabbits.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 17:33
Originally posted by Maharbbal


@ Sparten, just check wikipedia, they have well-balanced articles about the Chameria issue.It is the usual sad story that keeps repeating itself in the Balkans and in Eastern Europe in general of a escalation in violence until one of the two groups manages to eradicate the other one way or the other. As usual the story evolves around two key periods: the end of the Ottoman rule and the 1930-1950 succession of struggles.In this case the escalation pretty much goes as follow: in 1913, Epirus is divided in two, the North goes to Albania, the South to Greece, many Muslim Albanian caught on the Greek side of the border are part of a population exchange with Turkey after the Lausanne treaty. Those left behind suffered intense discrimination under the pre-war fascist Greek government. The Muslim Chams happily welcomed the Axis invasion and commonly served as auxiliaries for the Italians in their anti-partisans campaigns (and the destruction of the Jewish Ionian communities). Their actions led to several massacres of Greek populations in Southern Epirus. As the German retreated, many Chams followed them. Those who stayed were offered to fight along the anti-communist EDES. As they refused, the EDES massacred many villages. More Chams moved to Albania.Nowadays, the assimilation strategies of the Greek government and the pressure to destroy the Cham community's culture has almost totally wiped off their identity. It is a sad fact that the collaboration with the Axis by some Cham people served as an excuse for a culture-cide (the term genocide is absolutely improper here). The Greek government should recognized the importance of cultural diversity and the fact that the possibility to freely choose one's culture and language is a basic human right. Regarding the Chameria independence issue, a population should be offered the choice to be independent (or unified with another nation if they wish to) via referendum. Of course this won't ever happen since governments are terrorised to empower the people and to see the artificial state construction fall apart.


Thanks for the well balanced summary of events. Puts the whole issue in perspective.
Back to Top
xristar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 18:31
Though I agree with you Maharbbal, I have to point out some things:

in 1913, Epirus is divided in two, the North goes to Albania, the South to Greece, many Muslim Albanian caught on the Greek side of the border are part of a population exchange with Turkey after the Lausanne treaty.

And many Greeks on the albanian side. (as a matter of fact, more greeks were caught in albania than albanians in greece)

Regarding the Chameria independence issue, a population should be offered the choice to be independent (or unified with another nation if they wish to) via referendum.

Pointless. Vorian put it correctly.


Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 19:55
Originally posted by Maharbbal

@ Sparten, just check wikipedia, they have well-balanced articles about the Chameria issue.
**Sigh**. A former mod should not have told of the requirement to give links when copy pasting.
 
 
Back to Top
EthnicAlbania View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 13-May-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote EthnicAlbania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 20:38
Back to Top
Maharbbal View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 21:28
@ Sparten

Sorry, just wanted to help… I was being naive, I didn't realize it was copy pasting…

@ vorian

The referendum is ALWAYS useful. If anything on a diplomatic point of view. The next time the Albanian would ask for whatever regarding S. Epirus, the Greek government would just have to answer: "democracy has spoken, the independence option got 1.1% of the votes, lets not talk about it any more".
Besides, regarding the disappearance of the Chams in Greece I would have to take your word for it. You never know maybe the sons of Chams still feel pretty strongly about the issue (maybe). Or maybe Greek people there are just fed up with the government and would just welcome independence without relation to any ethno-religious claims.
In the Basque Country for instance, many of the hardest supporters of independence are not of Basque origin.
I am a free donkey!
Back to Top
Vorian View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 06-Dec-2007
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 566
  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 22:08
Originally posted by Maharbbal

@ Sparten


The referendum is ALWAYS useful. If anything on a diplomatic point of view. The next time the Albanian would ask for whatever regarding S. Epirus, the Greek government would just have to answer: "democracy has spoken, the independence option got 1.1% of the votes, lets not talk about it any more".
Besides, regarding the disappearance of the Chams in Greece I would have to take your word for it. You never know maybe the sons of Chams still feel pretty strongly about the issue (maybe). Or maybe Greek people there are just fed up with the government and would just welcome independence without relation to any ethno-religious claims.
In the Basque Country for instance, many of the hardest supporters of independence are not of Basque origin.


The referendum as you say could work. On the other hand we have about 800,000 Albanian immigrants in Greece and it would just give the signal for all of them to travel to Epirus and vote. It would have to be REALLY well regulated. As for Greek people wanting independence...LOL. No Greek would want that cause everybody thinks his region is the best in Greece and without it the country would go to hell.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 06:16

Cheers Maharbbal. No worrys mate.

EthnicAlbania, thanks for the link. However please add that link to the original post. You can do that by editing the post. You can edit it by chosing the "post options" button on the top right hand of your post.
 
Thanks!
 
Back to Top
Antigonus_ View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-May-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote Antigonus_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 10:03
It's funny that Nazi allies and collaborators are blaming others for genocide. This post is an example of how effective propaganda can be.
If the Albanians think they have been treated unjustly they could just take Greece to the international court.
Albanians have allied themselves with fascism and consequently lost the war along with their allies. Meanwhile from  spring of 41 till 45 they took part in atrocities against Greeks in occupied by the Axis Greece. Today they have the nerve to invent a genocide story.
They participated in an invasion and occupation of Greece and are now complaining about the Greeks forming a resistance to fight back.
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23-Apr-2006
Location: Flipper HQ
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1813
  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 10:45
Antigonus_
To be fair, we have to say that not all Albanians cooperated with the AXIS. Those who had interests and benefits did. Such people were in all countries, but unfortunately in the Balkans the numbers were high. Those who fought in our side even made a Greek cementary for the lost souls in Albania.

We should be carefull and be specific on such matters, otherwise we fall to the same level as the Cham propaganda.


Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
Back to Top
Antigonus_ View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-May-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote Antigonus_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 16:40
    I did not say that all Albanians where happy about cooperating with the Axis forces. But the fact is that the Greeks had to fight back and so they did.
    This "topic" suggests that the Greeks should not stand up against the invaders and their collaborators. They are somehow trying to invent a new genocide that never happened.
If there is any proof that Albanians other than those participating in the occupation forces were attacked then they should be presented.


Back to Top
Antigonus_ View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 29-May-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote Antigonus_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 16:49
This got to be the funniest topic so far.
This guy claims that in 1936 according to Greek sources 26.000 Chams live in Greece.
How did the Greek goverment manage to expell 30.000 of them?
Although its simple I will do the maths for you my friend:
26.000-30.000 = -4.000
The Greek government has miraculously managed to expelled more people than have actually existed and the same time perform a genocide!!!!
Whom did they kill ? Since according to your statistics 110% of the Chams were expelled?
Or did they first expel them and then go to Albania and kill them?



Back to Top
kurt View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 358
  Quote kurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 06:23
See, its irritating when you're country is accused of a genocide when no one will hear your side of the story to it, isn't it? Now you know how us Turks feel. You guys are so quick to point out that the Albanians were collaborating with invaders, well its the same with us, yet somehow we're still guilty of genocide whilst with you its just self-defence.
Karadenizli
Back to Top
xristar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 06:55
The scale is different. The chams were some tens of thousands, armenians were some millions.
"Genocide" is a heavy word that shouldn't be used everywhere. The Chams weren't "genocised". They were expelled.

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
Back to Top
Carpathian Wolf View Drop Down
General
General

BANNED

Joined: 06-Jun-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 884
  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2008 at 06:57
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.070 seconds.