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Guess
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Topic: Tamerlane Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 03:14 |
I read that Tamerlane was a military genius. What did he do that was so brilliant?
Was he really a mongol or was he more turkish? Did he basically reconquer the original Mongol empire?
Did his empire collapse after his death and all that was left was the mughal empire in India?
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Knights
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 05:07 |
Here's a few things Tamerlane did:
1. Rose from a minor bandit/tribal leader, to the official head of an organised state
2. Defeated Ottomans at Anakara, capturing Bayerzid
3. Defeated the Mamelukes
4. Defeated Sultanate of Delhi, taking the capital
5. Defeated the Khan of the Golden Horde repeatedly in battle
6. Devastated the Golden Horde
7. Made Samarkand one of the world's greatest cities
8. Killled a heck of a lot of people
9. Defeated other minor powers
So yes, he was a military genius, and accomplished a fair bit! Though, he didn't quite manage to reconquer the entire Mongol Empire
- Knights -
Edited by Knights - 09-Apr-2008 at 05:08
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Guests
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 05:34 |
As for his ethnicity, Taimur the lame, was whatever he wanted to be.
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Roberts
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 06:28 |
Originally posted by Guess
Was he really a mongol or was he more turkish? Did he basically reconquer the original Mongol empire?
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Back in his time it didn't matter whether he was turk or mongol. More important was to have a ties with Chingisid family in order to become legitime ruler of steppe empire.
Did his empire collapse after his death and all that was left was the mughal empire in India?
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Partly. His sons still ruled wast territories after his death, but as big as their father. Imo Mughal empire is not direct descendant of Timurid empire.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 07:33 |
Timur was a so-called "Turko-Mongol," he originated from the originally Mongolian tribe Barlas, which however by his birth has already complitely converted to Islam and Turkicized. Timur himself spoke Turkic but not Mongolian language. Mongols at that time were already mixed to the great extent with the Cental Asian Turk, yet to be a Mongol meant to be a part of the ruling nobility, elite warrior class.
BTW, I believe this thread should belong to the Central Asian subforum.
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Zagros
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 08:58 |
The man was a blight who sent the middle east back to the stone age.
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Illirac
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 11:06 |
Originally posted by Guess
I read that Tamerlane was a military genius. What did he do that was so brilliant?
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Hmm...waging war for over 30 years brought him some experience
Originally posted by Guess
Was he really a mongol or was he more turkish? Did he basically reconquer the original Mongol empire?
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He was a Turco-Mongol and he did not reconquer the Mongol empire, it was more similar to the Parthian empire (for extension and location)
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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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Seko
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 13:54 |
Towers of skulls are purported to be his signature trademark. He was a brute but a genius as well. His weakness is due to his lack of administration skills and huge ego. Militarily, you would be hard pressed to find his equal.
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Guess
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 16:26 |
what were the brilliant tactics, strategies, etc... that tamerlane used?
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Bulldog
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 18:10 |
Roberts
Partly. His sons still ruled wast territories after his death, but as big as their father. Imo Mughal empire is not direct descendant of Timurid empire. |
Historical records show Babur was a Timurid, direct descendant of the Timur, the Mughal name is a misnomer, they were Timurids driven out of Turkistan south to India.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Zagros
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 19:16 |
Originally posted by Seko
Towers of skulls are purported to be his signature trademark. He was a brute but a genius as well. His weakness is due to his lack of administration skills and huge ego. Militarily, you would be hard pressed to find his equal. |
One of my father's old friends had read Timurlane's memoirs (which are in Persian) and the man was apparently a sociopath. He had an admiration for Persian genius in engineering, philosophy and architecture yet at the same time he hated the civilisation. On his campaign which passed through Central Iran, he sacked Isfahan and beheaded all inhabitants (except artisans, poets etc) and stacked their heads in a pyramid. He marveled at the city before hand, commenting that the walls were so immense that two carriages could pass each other side on. A year later on his return he noted how the skulls shone so brightly in the sun, attributing it to the genius of the slain. This can be rationalised with another comment he made about the country in which he stated that even the simple people of the towns converse over matters of philosophy.
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Temujin
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Posted: 09-Apr-2008 at 21:42 |
Originally posted by Zagros
He had an admiration for Persian genius in engineering, philosophy and architecture |
which qualifies him as sociopath?
On his campaign which passed through Central Iran, he sacked Isfahan and beheaded all inhabitants (except artisans, poets etc) and stacked their heads in a pyramid.
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sounds like a genius to me.
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Zagros
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 01:46 |
He was a sociopath, look up the meaning. He expressed admiration, yet at he same time was very happy to kill mercilessly and salt the earth, destroy irrigation in vindictive acts of terror and actually attempt to bury the civilisation. Sounds pretty unstable to me. Or maybe you have read his memoirs completely and know something I don't? In which case it would be polite to actually make a proper response and share some information.
Your selective quoting and out of context comments are...
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Sarmat
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 05:39 |
I don't think you can blame him for that. He was a person of his time; everybody did this. If he would lose a battle to some other warlord the same fate would find his people.
He simply wanted to damage his enemies as much as he can. At the same time he made Samarkand the most brilliant Muslim city of its time. For sure another ruler would do totally the same thing. The difference regarding Tamerlane is that he was able to conduct large wars with strong enemies, covering vast territories; for that reason, naturally, all these were followed by the large scale atrocities.
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Julius Augustus
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 05:59 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
I don't think you can blame him for that. He was a person of his time; everybody did this. If he would lose a battle to some other warlord the same fate would find his people.
He simply wanted to damage his enemies as much as he can. At the same time he made Samarkand the most brilliant Muslim city of its time. For sure another ruler would do totally the same thing. The difference regarding Tamerlane is that he was able to conduct large wars with strong enemies, covering vast territories; for that reason, naturally, all these were followed by the large scale atrocities. |
he was just following what the Hordes before his time did, but I think the Mameluks of that time and the Christians did not do the same.
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kafkas
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 08:56 |
Originally posted by Guess
Was he really a mongol or was he more turkish? Did he basically reconquer the original Mongol empire?
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He was a "Turko-Mongol" implying he was a Turk with Mongol roots and heritage, but back then there really wasn't too much of a difference between them anyway. And morally reprehensible or not he was brilliant.
Edited by kafkas - 10-Apr-2008 at 08:57
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 11:42 |
Originally posted by bulldog
Historical records show Babur was a Timurid, direct descendant of
the Timur, the Mughal name is a misnomer, they were Timurids driven out
of Turkistan south to India. |
Anyone coming from central asia was called a mongol (Mughal) during that period of Indian history.
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Illirac
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 13:27 |
Originally posted by Guess
what were the brilliant tactics, strategies, etc... that tamerlane used? |
Standard horse archer fighting... in the battle of Kondurcha he got encircled by the enemy, but he managed to exit and win...no new tactics
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For too long I've been parched of thirst and unable to quench it.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 15:37 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by bulldog
Historical records show Babur was a Timurid, direct descendant of the Timur, the Mughal name is a misnomer, they were Timurids driven out of Turkistan south to India. |
Anyone coming from central asia was called a mongol (Mughal) during that period of Indian history.
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Central Asia at that time very often was simply referred as "Mogolistan." The Eastern part of Turkestan was referred with this name for even longer time.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 10-Apr-2008 at 17:18 |
Tamerlane referred to the region as "Turkestan", Babur also uses the term "Turkestan", during the Muhammad Sheybani era the term is used, 17th century ruler of Khiva Bahadur Khan and historian uses the term.
The city of Turkestan in todays southern Kazakistan was famed and still is a place of pilgrimage, Tamerlane rebuilt and constructed some architectural works in the area as a sign of respect to his forefathers. (Also its said this was a pollitical move, to win support of the Turk masses of Central Asia).
Mogulistan was used for the area of todays Eastern Turkestan, todays Mongolia is known as Mogulistan among Turkic states.
Edited by Bulldog - 10-Apr-2008 at 17:20
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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