Could the nazis have invaded England?

In my opinion we are giving two groups of people way too much credits:
- Fighter pilots. The Luftwaffe had proved at Dunkirk a European air force was not able to prevent an amphibian operation.
- General. They should have known that fighter pilots were not that good.

We are referring to the Japanese navy pilots. But the guys of the RAF were not the over trained ship-killers that attacked Pearl Harbour and sunk the Prince of Wales. The Operation Pedestal and the convoys to Russia or the Tokyo express in Guadacanal are good evidence that when the Navy wanted to go through, it did go through.

True, the same holds for the RN that could have crushed anything the Nazi threw at her. But what the Germans needed to do was merely to establish a bridge head. After that the Kriegsmarine + Luftwaffe + UBoats + mines + land-based artillery could have kept opened a safe corridor in the Channel.

True, the Brits could have won at home. But the French and the Poles also were playing at home and had been badly defeated. The BEF's actions in France don't really show that they could have been a strong opponent to Guderian and Rommel. The Brits fancy themselves as special and think the last infant would have become a guerrillero throwing Molotov cocktails in baby bottles to the Panzers. But the experience in the Channel Islands points to a different direction.

England would have collapsed. It might have taken some time due to the difficulties related to the crossing of the Channel, but the Huns would have gone through and taken Edinburgh by Christmas 1940 at the latest. Of course some amazing event could have happened, you know the silly mistake that destroys the best laid plan, but the same could have happened to the English, so�

In my opinion, the Nazi didn't do it because they were afraid. The Germans had lost less than 20,000 men since the beginning of the war. 1940 is not 1943, they were not ready to sacrifice a fourth of the army to save the 3 others as they did in Stalingrad. The British propaganda had done a wonderful work at convincing the German soldiers that seal lion would be a blood bath.

Ultimately, it was a mistake since much less German soldiers would have died in the invasion of England than did in the later battles against the English. I am sure the German commanders would have come out with a brilliant plan to overcome the English and won once more.

Originally posted by Maharbbal In my opinion we are giving two groups of people way too much credits: - Fighter pilots. The Luftwaffe had proved at Dunkirk a European air force was not able to prevent an amphibian operation. - General. They should have known that fighter pilots were not that good. We are referring to the Japanese navy pilots. But the guys of the RAF were not the over trained ship-killers that attacked Pearl Harbour and sunk the Prince of Wales. The Operation Pedestal and the convoys to Russia or the Tokyo express in Guadacanal are good evidence that when the Navy wanted to go through, it did go through.

Edited by deadkenny - 05-Apr-2008 at 22:36

Originally posted by deadkenny But it wasn't 'fighters' that would have been attacking German shipping in any case.  The RN would have been attacking the German invasion forces.  The Luftwaffe needed to attack the RN with their bombers.  The RAF Fighter Command would have been trying to keep the Luftwaffe bombers away from the RN ships.

They weren't all strategic, don't forget the Bristol Blenheim's.

Edited by Paul - 05-Apr-2008 at 23:30

Originally posted by Zagros The problem Britain had wasn't with aircraft numbers or production; there was simply a shortage of pilots to fly them.

Originally posted by Maharbbal Hum, remember the flying circus (not the monty python, the wwi tactics). The one who attacks has a logical numerical lead. Some of the airfields would have been captured by paratroopers, diversions would have fooled the Brits into sending their part of their planes somewhere else, part of the crossing would take place at night (no risks of being bombarded then), etc. The invading force would thus only face 10 to 30% of the RAF while itself being at full force. For two or three critical hours, the Brits would have been wiped off the skies. And even if they hadn't most of their planes would be busy fighting the planes and thus would have no impact on land.

And what about the Home Fleet?  What would be the effect of even a few heavy units firing on the improvised barges?

Originally posted by gcle2003 The British had more aircraft, were producing them faster

Yes, and where have they producing it? In all of its empire: India, Africa, etc. How many were they producing at home? by the 1944 the German production of aircraft was double then that of the Brits, so they could easily have that production in 1940 if they were planning to invade. The question was: could the nazis have invaded England?
Answer: if they would have planned it from the beginning, they would, and probably would conquer it. Since they were not planning they did not, and did not conquer it.

Why wouldn't they be?  That is why they made a point of destroying the Bismarck, in addition to obliterating the Vichy Navy and Italian Navy.  The German navy was reduced to primarily sub-marine operations and trhere is a reason for that.

Originally posted by red clay Originally posted by Paul Originally posted by deadkenny But it wasn't 'fighters' that would have been attacking German shipping in any case.  The RN would have been attacking the German invasion forces.  The Luftwaffe needed to attack the RN with their bombers.  The RAF Fighter Command would have been trying to keep the Luftwaffe bombers away from the RN ships.   And 6000 RAF bombers attacking the open top barges.   Germany needed to knock out the RAF fighters so their own fighters could engage the bombers.     6,000 RAF bombers?  Even after the 8th Air force arrived there weren't that many bombers available, let alone the RAF on it's own.