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Oldest civilization in the world?

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Mythica View Drop Down
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  Quote Mythica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oldest civilization in the world?
    Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 10:35

Most people are saying Sumerian is older than Egyptian so is this timeline incorrect? http://chaos1.hypermart.net/fullsize/ancivfs.gif

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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 21:06

It is correct but incorrect. They're starting Sumer off with Early Dynastic I, but Sumer has a long pre-dynastic history of urban civilization, the Uruk Period, which starts about 4000 BC. Egypt, too, has an earlier history than that given - the Protodynastic Period, starting in about 3200 BC - during which its first cities emerged.

It's correct for Egypt and Sumer if you take their histories as beginning with their respective dynastic periods, but it's incorrect if you're looking at it as a timeline of the emergence of urban life and "civilization".

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  Quote Mythica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 21:54
Thanks, that makes sense
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 22:05
I have to say that I'm always confused by the "dynastic" king lists from Sumeria, as they aren't representative of the whole mesopotamian civilisation, and as we know, there are plenty of cities that did have some kind of monarchies that aren't even listed. Moreover, I'd consider writing and a literary culture to be one of the building blocks for a "civilisation", and I don't believe that the Uruk, Halaf, Ubaid, etc. cultures have anything that comes close - they may have had hieroglyphs, or perhaps that comes later.
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 22:56

Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

Moreover, I'd consider writing and a literary culture to be one of the building blocks for a "civilisation"

I'm not entirely sure about that ... what about the Inca? They can't really be classified as a tribal group - they have a large, centrally administered empire, a bureaucracy, numerous cities, and a wealth of infrastructure (roads, irrigation, terraces, granaries, even a postal service).

and I don't believe that the Uruk, Halaf, Ubaid, etc. cultures have anything that comes close - they may have had hieroglyphs, or perhaps that comes later.

Pictographic script appears during the Uruk Period; by 2800 BC there are syllabic and phonetic elements. 

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  Quote athenas owl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 00:03
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

Moreover, I'd consider writing and a literary culture to be one of the building blocks for a "civilisation", and I don't believe that the Uruk, Halaf, Ubaid, etc. cultures have anything that comes close - they may have had hieroglyphs, or perhaps that comes later.

Did the Incas have a system of writing?   I suppose so if one counts the knotted strings.   But no known literary culture or writing that we would recognise.   However, i would consider the Incas a "civilisation".
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 01:22
Oh...I take that back then! I assumed that the Inca did have writing...but how could they have an administered empire which functioned effectively without such a means of communication?
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 01:27
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

Oh...I take that back then! I assumed that the Inca did have writing...but how could they have an administered empire which functioned effectively without such a means of communication?
 
Pinguin mentioned the lack of Inca writing in a separate thread. It does seem odd that they were able to administer their empire without it, doesn't it? I'd really like to read up their governance a bit, if I ever get the time.
 
-Akolouthos
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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 03:21
...How did they manage to do that? Couriers? For such a large area of land that they controlled, that seems unlikely. Alternatively, they could have just done what the Hittites did - leave a loyal magnate in command of the area in which they wished to govern. Interestingally enough, Peru and Anatolia in some respects are quite similar in their lay of the land and ruggedness - the Incas may have been able to use the same method. I don't think that the Hittites did communicate with writing to their magnates to such a huge extent as other empires, so this comparison may be worth following up.
 
...But as per the main question, I think it has to be a tie between Sumeria and Egypt, although the earliest Pharonic dynasty has blatant Mesopotamian influences in their architecture, and I believe it's now generally accepted that the original "Pharonic" race came from Mesopotamia in any case. Much of the "civilisation"  of many of these peoples comes from a fusion of the dominant imported culture of the ruling caste and that of the indigenous peoples - I could, again use the Hittites as an example, but again we can push the boundaries forward to the Ottoman empire etc.
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  Quote dud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2009 at 15:14
Originally posted by coolstorm

the chinese civilization actually started around 3000 bc as the huangdi tribe.

http://www.greatchinese.com/emperors/table.htm

the source is, however, in chinese.

but it's the only existing ancient civilization in the world today. all others are gone already.

 
I think you could even push the start of civilization in China back to the Longshan culture. In that time were the first Chinese cities established from agricultural villages.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 02:48
The oldest known human settlement is in Catalhoyuk, Turkey (7th Millenium B.C.)
http://www.users.interport.net/k/a/kaparla/bil.htm
The earliest one hinted at was Enoch, built by Cain in the land of Nod, East of Eden
http://nabataea.net/eden8.html
...but then that sunk in a Flood
An account to Atlantis also exists in Bible where it is called, 'Enoch'.
"

Atlantis the Final Solution: A Scientific History of Humanity Over the Last 100,000 Years"

;)

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  Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 03:14
 
I think any myth relates to " Sumerian civilization " is a hoax or cyber-hype LOL
 
 
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  Quote chrisart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 10:01
The Oldest Gold in the World - The First European Civilization is in Varna, Bulgaria...
 
The scientific carbon analysis shows that this civilization dates back about 6000 B.C. This is the time when the Sumerian and Assyrian civilizations appeared. There are grounds for the scientists to consider the finds in the Varna Necropolis as the oldest gold treasure ever found in the World.
 
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  Quote Hungo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2009 at 15:52
Originally posted by Sharrukin

1.  Sumerian, c. 3500 BC

2.  Egyptian, c. 3300 BC

3.  Elamite, c. 3200 BC

4.  Meluhhan, c. 2700 BC

5.  Marian/Eblaite, c. 2500 BC

Honorable Mention:

6.  Subarian, c. 2400 BC

7.  Hattian, c. 2300 BC

8.  Chinese, c. 2200 BC

 



Tablets Of Tatarlaka (Tartaria)!

Radiocarbon dating on the Tartaria finds pushed the date of the tablets (and therefore of the whole Vinca culture) much further back, to as long ago as 5500 BC. Civilisation also starts in the Carpathian-basin. A perfect landscape for human evolution. why do the historians miss this place?
Search on Tartaria tablets if u dont believe
Attila király katonája
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2009 at 16:16
Atlantis
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2010 at 02:11

the oldest civilization Is of indians coz the proof of carbon dating takes us back for 9500 years BC ,every one can verify the proof of sience ,the location is near gujrath a place called DWARAKA which is submerged in sea ,this city discovered by scientific persons with the guidence of great indian epics MHABHARATHA AND BHAGAWADGEETHA

THE CITY BELONGS TO LORD KRISHNA which was created by VISHWAKARMA AS EPIC STATES
the similarites observed here with scientific persons discovery and epics state ment maches around 95%
amazing india
geetha and mahabharatha states krishna king of dwaraka lived in around 10000years before
carbon dating shows 9500years bc
what do you think kindly let me know? any doubts mail me at adishakthi@live.com for clarify
then i want to ask a qestion with all forum members that what do you think about a bridge between india and srilankha of 30 km long discovered now by NASSA before that indians all are familear with that as rams sethu which was created lacks of year back (exact giver will be given by me in feature)?


THIS REPLY IS THE ORIGINE OF MY NEW THREAD ABOUT CIVILIZATIONS OF WORLD AND TOWARDS THE END OF EARTH (AGE OF EARTH IS NOT 2012 EARTH AND SOLAR SYSTEM DOES NOT END AT 2012 ?IF WORLD NOT SEEN END AT 2012 WHAT IS THE STATE MENT MEANS THAT A POPE GAVE A STATEMENT THAT WORLD WOULD END IN 500 YEARS IN 1512 ?


LIKE THIS

PLZ TAKE THIS IS SERIOUS
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2010 at 03:27
Oldest Civilization
Even if we don't know what the cultural background of the people is, if it does happen to be a city that is 9500 years old, that is older than the Sumerian civilization by several thousand years. It is older than the Egyptian, older than the Chinese. So it would radically affect our whole picture of the development of urban civilization on this planet.
Sunken City Off India Coast

7500 B.C.? 10 000 B.C.? 50 000 B.C.?

How to fix the date of the Mahabharata

A practical suggestion

The following text is taken from the Mahabharata.

The text in Section VI predicts the sinking of the City of Dwaravati. Section VII describes how the city of Dwarka was swallowed up by the ocean. Geological expertise can help determine the period when the city of Dwarka was lost beneath the ocean waves.

Tsunami? (Earliest recorded event of Tsunami)

From The Mahabharata


Sunken City Off India Coast-

7500 B. C.?

© 2002 by Linda Moulton Howe

February 16, 2002

Surat, India - A month ago in mid-January, marine scientists in India announced they had sonar images of square and rectangular shapes about 130 feet down off the northwestern coast of India in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay). Not only are their sonar shapes with 90-degree angles, the Indian Minister of Science and Technology ordered that the site be dredged. What was found has surprised archaeologists around the world and was the subject of a private meeting two weeks ago attended by the Indian Minister in charge of investigating the underwater site about thirty miles off the coast from Surat.

An American who traveled to that private meeting was Michael Cremo, researcher in the history of archaeology for the Bhakti Vedanta Institute in India and author of the book Forbidden Archaeology. I talked with him today in India about the dredging operation, what the ocean engineers found and the implications of first carbon dating of artifacts at more than 9,000 years.

Michael Cremo, Researcher of Ancient Archaeology

and Author, Forbidden Archaeology

"Within the past few months, the engineers began some dredging operations there and they pulled up human fossil bones, fossil wood, stone tools, pieces of pottery and many other things that indicated that it indeed was a human habitation site that they had. And they were able to do more intensive sonar work there and were able to identify more structures. They appeared to have been laid out on the bank of a river that had been flowing from the Indian subcontinent out into that area.

According to the news releases, they have done a radiocarbon testing on a piece of wood from the underwater site that is now yielding an age of 9,500 yearsyears which would place it near the end of the last Ice Age.

Yes, those are the indications that are coming. There were actually two radiocarbon dates: one about 7500 years old and another about 9500 years old. The 9500 year old one seems to be the strongest one. That's the one they are going with. This was announced by Minister Joshi (Murli Manohar Joshi is Indian Minister for Ocean Technology) He said there is going to be more work going on. It's difficult because it's very difficult to see down there. There is a very swift current. So, it's going to have to be a pretty massive effort, but he said the government of India is willing to put the resources behind it to do whatever it takes to further confirm these discoveries.Even if we don't know what the cultural background of the people is, if it does happen to be a city that is 9500 years old, that is older than the Sumerian civilization by several thousand years. It is older than the Egyptian, older than the Chinese. So it would radically affect our whole picture of the development of urban civilization on this planet.

WHAT A AMAZING INDIA
Adi
(plz let me open new thread and i will update abt indians )
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2010 at 23:51

§                     Kemet/Ancient Egypt  - 3150 BC

§                     Ancient Near East( Mesopotamia/Sumer,Anatolia/Hurrians ,Levant/Canaan,Elam)

Chalcolithic from 4500-3300BC

                                                Bronze age from3300-1200BC

                                                Iron Age from 1200-539BC

§                     Prehistoric Armenia Kura Araxes culture 6000-4000BC,

Trialeti culture 4000-2200BC

§                     Minoan civilization – 2700BC

§                     Indus Valley Civilization Mehrgarh civilization(chalcolithic) 7000-3300BC , Harappan(bronze age) 3300-1300BC

§                     Gangetic Plain

Jhusi-Cultivated rice specimens were dated back to 7100BC

§                     Ancient China Millet culture 7000BC the civilization can be traced back to 10000BC

§                     Helladic Greece  2000BC

§                     Classical Greece   600BC

§                     Americas

§                     Norte Chico-3700BC(some specimenswere dated back to 9000BC) , Caral 2600BC, or Caral-Supe (3000BC) Civilization

§                     Olmec 1500BC

§                     Toltec 1000BC

§                     Kingdom of Cusco/Inca Empire 1000-1400AD

§                     Zapotec civilization 500BC

 Courtesy : Wikipedia

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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2010 at 00:22

 

Jhusi

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratisthan_Pur_(Jhunsi)

 

 Plantmacro remains fron neolithic Jhusi in Gangetic plain : evidence for grain based agriculture

Link to the Report on the studies conducted at Jhusi 

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252009/564.pdf

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  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2010 at 15:28
1. Summerian
2. Hurrian-UrartuMannaean, Elamite
3. Mitanni, Egypt, hethit
4. Babylonian
5. Assyrian, Median, Lydian
6. Achemenid, Hellenic 
7. Old-Persian
8. Parthian, Roman
9. Sassanid-Persian
.............


Edited by Xorto - 19-Sep-2010 at 15:31
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