Oldest civilization in the world?

          Your notion that middle eastern civilizations to be old, is not in tune with the latest archelogical discoversies being made in the World.....
           The ruins discovered in the GULF of Cambay are dated to be 9500 years old. It is found at the exact place of the Legendary Sri Krishna's capital city DWARAk which was recorded in the Mahabarath to have submerged in the sea..
             Moreover there is not much of time difference between Indus and Mesaptomia, both the civilization evoloved side by side and the advances made by Indus valley stand out as ahead of their times
visit the site and update some current affairs about civilization
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/BadrinaryanB1.php?p=1

Even if we the Indian mythology and its tmelines as as just fictio what about the archeology that suggest the existence of even more older civilisation a synopsis of Indus and much more older civilisation

Indus Valley 3300�1700 BC

The Indus Valley civilization first appeared around 3300 BC at Harappa, followed by Mohenjo-Daro a few centuries later. By 2600 BC, it had developed into the most advanced civilization of its time, covering almost all Pakistan and North-Western India. The earliest-known farming cultures in South Asia emerged in the hills of Balochistan, Pakistan, which included Mehrgarh in 7000 BC. These semi-nomadic peoples domesticated wheat, barley, sheep, goat and cattle. Pottery was in use by the 6th millennium BC. The oldest granary yet found in Mehrgarh in the Indus Valley dates from 6000 BC. Their settlement consisted of mud buildings that housed four internal subdivisions. Burials included elaborate goods such as baskets, stone and bone tools, beads, bangles, pendants and occasionally animal sacrifices. Figurines and ornaments of sea shell, limestone, turquoise, lapis lazuli, sandstone and polished copper have been found. By the 4th millennium BC we find much evidence of manufacturing. Technologies included stone and copper drills, updraft kilns, large pit kilns and copper melting crucibles. Button seals included geometric designs.

By 4000 BC, a pre-Harappan culture emerged, with trade networks including lapis lazuli and other raw materials. Villagers domesticated numerous other crops, including peas, sesame seed, dates, and cotton, plus a wide range of domestic animals, including the water buffalo which still remains essential to intensive agricultural production throughout Asia today. There is also evidence of sea-going craft. Archaeologists have discovered a massive, dredged canal and docking facility at the coastal city of Lothal, India, perhaps the world's oldest sea-faring harbor. Judging from the dispersal of artifacts the trade networks integrated portions of Afghanistan, the Persian coast, northern and central India, Mesopotamia (see Meluhha) and Ancient Egypt (see Silk Road).

Archaeologists studying the remains of two men from Mehrgarh, Pakistan, discovered that these peoples in the Indus Valley Civilization had knowledge of medicine and dentistry as early as circa 3300 BC. Recently there was found dentistry as early as 7000 BC ( see http://archaeology.about.com/od/inventions/qt/dentistry.htm). The Indus Valley Civilization gains credit for the earliest known use of decimal fractions in a uniform system of ancient weights and measures, as well as negative numbers (see Timeline of mathematics). Ancient Indus Valley artifacts include beautiful, glazed stone fa�ence beads.

The Indus Valley Civilization boasts the earliest known accounts of urban planning. Major cities included Lothal (2400 BC), Harappa (3300 BC), and Mohenjo-Daro (2500 BC) As seen in Harappa, Mohenjo-daro and (recently discovered) Rakhigarhi, India, their urban planning included the world's first urban sanitation systems. Evidence suggests efficient municipal governments. Streets were laid out in perfect grid patterns comparable to modern New York City. Houses were protected from noise, odors and thieves. The sewage and drainage systems developed and used in cities throughout the Indus Valley were far more advanced than that of contemporary urban sites in Mesopotamia and Egypt and also more advanced than that of any other Bronze Age or even Iron Age civilization. For an unknown reason, the Harappan civilization came to an end at around 1700 BC.

Some historians, however, believe in an ancient civilization in present-day Gujarat known as the Sorath civilization, dating back to 3700 BC. This view is starting to gain credence among historians, but has not yet been verified. This civilization was completely different from the Harappan civilization, with 90% different pottery, different crops, and a rural rather that urban aspect.

Another earlier claim was presented by oceanographical researchers of an Indian institution called NIOT in the Gulf of Cambay which consists in possible underwater structures resembling Harappan ones but dated about 7000 BC.

        Edgewater, As u said Susais much older than Indus, but what about the findings in DWARAKA(GULF of Cambay ) of the Gujarat coast.
        The findings are dated some 9500 years ago and it is just not a settlement, it is a fortefied city.....

         Dubious may be for those who are limited in theior frame of mind that civilization started 4000 Years ago
         The above given site mentions that the announcement of the finding was made hastily, but it doent change anything the findings lie there for you to see and the carbon dating of the various finds are well documneted and you know before u I dont know how can u call it dubious by just reading something and ignoring the painful research that has gone into it. For all the excavation info and the datings of the individual finds u ca have a look at it just saying dubious will place u in bankrupted intellectuals and doesnt dissaprove anything about the find..
  It is well accepted in all archeological journals and archeologists about the date of the find, it is people like you with a bigoted view of history
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/BadrinaryanB1.php?p=1

Visit the above site and better brush up your knowledge.
      Now if u think that these findings I would questing the reasons for they being dubious You must not that the findings were dated not in India alone, the OXFORD UNiversity and Institute of Earth Sciences ,Hannover Germany. It must be that even those prestigious institutes are fooling and engaging in dubious research I guess according to u
http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Dwaraka.htm

Oh my.  Now watch these two get into it. 

Originally posted by Kamran the Great Is/was India an ancient civilization ???

This site should have the answer to your question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

Also we're having a discussion on the oldest accepted roots of Indian civilisation on this thread if you want more info:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12987


Edited by Anujkhamar - 07-Jul-2006 at 06:14

Originally posted by Kamran the Great Is/was India an ancient civilization ???

Yes. Civilization in the Indus Valley was one of the early ones.
    

Originally posted by bulldog The oldest surviving Civillisations alive today would be,   Itallian - Turkish of Turkey

there is Greece, Armenia, Egypt, Iran (Persia), Israel, China, India + Pakistan (assumingly the indus valley civilizations were progenitors of both countries)...unless you think old is 1000 A.D.

Moreover, "Italy" was only a geographical term until modern times. And the current Italians are a mix of the Romans and  germanic tribes, Greeks, Africans, ostrogoths, visigoths (and any other goths you can think off) and etc...while Turkey (Anatolia) of 1000 AD you speak off was full of "non-Turk" people like Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Arabs, Georgians, Persians, Romans and of course the newcomers (Turks)... it doesnt take one day to "Turkify" all those people...

there is Greece, Armenia, Egypt, Iran (Persia), Israel, China, India + Pakistan (assumingly the indus valley civilizations were progenitors of both countries)...unless you think old is 1000 A.D.

So if they (Greeks) ruled Greece for a couple of hundred years and for the next thousand years another empire ruled Greece, Greek civilization somehow ceases to exist? you cant be serious...is this your definition of "civilization"?

It wouldn;t necessarily "cease" to exist but it would be diluted and slowly disintegrated and changed to a point its unrecognisable to what existed before by the dominant civillisation of the ruling powers. The previous civillisation would not be living in the next thousand years, only traces of it and the history would remain.

the land now known as Israel has been governed by foreign powers for how long? ..Italy reunified in 1860s. During this time it has been reported that about 90% of the populace did not know the National language... Italy as a nation has only been alive for a mere 150 years or so.