Riots in Tibet

Originally posted by Sparten Originally posted by Leonidas thats like 'all the best for isreali troops' in the west bank, but hey isreali's are native by your logic and therefore such behavior completely reasonable This is the Chinese Army operating in Chinese Territory. That is the Israelites operating in occupied territory. Big diff. Incidentally, the army has'nt as yet been called out, the police are handling it. If this was a commonwealth country there would have the army out now.

Originally posted by Majkes   Could You please explain why Tibet is Chinese territory and Palestine occupied territory. As far as i know both territories were taken with breaking international law and both are occupied.

Originally posted by Zagros This is all fine coming from the inhabitants of nations that had carte blanche in eras past to colonise, rape and pillage other countries to their heart's content and still do under  pretences of human rights and democracy.   The humanitarian Germans supplied Saddam with finished chemical weapons which they held onto from their Nazi past and they were foremost in stirring the ethnic troubles in Yugoslavia - show some outrage.

Originally posted by Bulldog I never understood why some groups get priority over others when it comes to such movements, the Uygurs in China hardly get any coverage in the West, the region they live in has been used for nuclear testing, prison labour camps and at least Tibet is still called Tibet, Eastern Turkistan was re-named "Xinjiang" province. However, these are internal crisises of China, every country has its problems and critics. Its difficult to really know what is going on in Tibet everything is being kept hush hush.   What are the demands of the protesting Tibetians?

It's easy to understand.  Whatever most people like to think... the international agenda of mainstream western news agencies is very well decided by those countries' intelligence services. psyops 101.

Originally posted by Spartakus What is this? Whenever an article is brought about an Asian Country, European countries and, always, the USA are being accused off by members with specific orientation and of specific origin. Now, this is spamming. If you have any complaints about USA or Germany's behaviour, then be my guess and open a relevant topic. But do not spam in other topics. We talk about China here, not Iraq, Palestine ,Germany. Personally, i did not came to this topic to learn about Saddam and him being supplied by Western countries, but about China.

Originally posted by Sparten Originally posted by Sarmat12 Originally posted by Majkes   Could You please explain why Tibet is Chinese territory and Palestine occupied territory. As far as i know both territories were taken with breaking international law and both are occupied.   As far as international law is concerned I don't think Tibet was ever recognized as an independent subject of international law in modern times. correction, tibet has been recognized as Chinese territory, and was recognized as Chinese territory by the UN and other countries. Tibet was part of China before the revolution of 1912, when China lost territory pretty much all over. The Chinese succeeded in reestablishing control in 1951. In the interim Tibetr was recognized as being part of China by every nation in the world and that is still the case.

Dont mistake Manchu with Han china, they are not the same Chinese or even Chinese for that matter. They never had Tibet only the Manchus and Mongol Yuan dynasties had control of it.

Originally posted by Sparten Edit: this video is of PRC border guards shooting Tibetan pilgrims on their way to see the Dalia lama. 'safeguarding the lives' as Spartan will call it. Lol. My god Leo that was priceless! I don't know what was funnier, the guy hiding in that makeshift toilet (who incidentally, knew English) or the pilgrims deciding to make a journey through the worst mountains in the world, which are crawling with Chinese soldiers on one end, and Indians on the other, especially when Tibet is an autonomous region and travl with India is fairly easy, especially into Ladkak or NEFA. Or maybe it was the guy filiming from a kilometer telling us what happened.

are you suggesting that was fake? maybe using offical Chinese press for information was funny, but shooting pilgrims...

 Tibet is autonomous in name only

Originally posted by Sparten Originally posted by Sarmat12 Originally posted by Majkes   Could You please explain why Tibet is Chinese territory and Palestine occupied territory. As far as i know both territories were taken with breaking international law and both are occupied.   As far as international law is concerned I don't think Tibet was ever recognized as an independent subject of international law in modern times. correction, tibet has been recognized as Chinese territory, and was recognized as Chinese territory by the UN and other countries. Tibet was part of China before the revolution of 1912, when China lost territory pretty much all over. The Chinese succeeded in reestablishing control in 1951. In the interim Tibetr was recognized as being part of China by every nation in the world and that is still the case.

It was under China's control. The other empires of that day; Russia and Britain didn't recognize china's sovereignty (only suzerainty), so its not a clear cut case as most Chinese would have you believe or as is stated above. Tibet had a functioning government under the Qing, after the Qing and it continues in exile now in India.

I don't know why Tibetian independence gets so much support when Uighur, Yunnani, Manchu, & Mongol does not.

China is running an imperialistic occupation of all those territories, those people have the right to revolt against Chinese rule, but the chinese also have the right to suppress those revolts.
I am neither in favour nor against Tibetan independence, it will happen eventually, at the next dynastic change in China.

I don't see any diffrence between occupied Palestine and Tibet.

Tibetians are allowed to live in Tibet. That is just being silly, China may be occupying Tibet but it isn't trying to ethnically cleanse Tibet.

tibet has been recognized as Chinese territory, and was recognized as Chinese territory by the UN and other countries. Tibet was part of China before the revolution of 1912, when China lost territory pretty much all over. The Chinese succeeded in reestablishing control in 1951. In the interim Tibetr was recognized as being part of China by every nation in the world and that is still the case.

Except for outer mongolia, Qing China's borders were recognised by the Europeans (Britain & Russia most importantly) even while the Qing did not control territories such as Tibet, Manchuria and East Turkestan.

The Russians even occupied East Turkistan & Manchuria while claiming "they were only holding them for the Chinese"

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Tibetians are allowed to live in Tibet. That is just being silly, China may be occupying Tibet but it isn't trying to ethnically cleanse Tibet.

Do Tibetans have any future ?

They are now the minority in their own land due to the Chinese politic of overwhelming the population with numbers of imported Chinese inhabitants as well suppressing any rebellion with force.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Except for outer mongolia, Qing China's borders were recognised by the Europeans (Britain & Russia most importantly) even while the Qing did not control territories such as Tibet, Manchuria and East Turkestan. The Russians even occupied East Turkistan & Manchuria while claiming "they were only holding them for the Chinese"

borders of control, while im talking about sovereignty, two different things.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Russia and Britain didn't recognize china's sovereignty (only suzerainty), so its not a clear cut case as most Chinese would have you believe or as is stated above. Yes they did. Even when English-Indian troops were in Lhasa and Cossacks in Kashgar.  English only changed their position in 1951.

The 1914 Simla declaration (Britain and Russia) not recognized by the Qing

Article 2. The Governments of Great Britain and China recognizing that Tibet is under the suzerainty of China, and recognizing also the autonomy of Outer Tibet, engage to respect the territorial integrity of the country, and to abstain from interference in the administration of Outer Tibet (including the selection and installation of the Dalai Lama), which shall remain in the hands of the Tibetan Government at Lhasa. The Government of China engages not to convert Tibet into a Chinese province. The Government of Great Britain engages not to annex Tibet or any portion of it

the polity of Tibet was defined in the west even during the Qing era.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim I don't see any diffrence between occupied Palestine and Tibet. Tibetians are allowed to live in Tibet. That is just being silly, China may be occupying Tibet but it isn't trying to ethnically cleanse Tibet.

nah its silly to think the tibteans can last as a distinct group in the near future under present conditions. Flooding Tibet with han colonist is going to achieve the same result.