Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Americans best chance to end terrorism
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Americans best chance to end terrorism
    Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 15:47
This is a spill over from the discussion about the American elections.

My position is pretty simple: the U.S. best weapon against an ongoing recruitment of terrorist is the true character of the American people.

Americans are mortals, so they have many defeats and are not perfect. Yet if we focus on the best of Americans, they tend to be their best ambassadors of good will.

We will still need policing to prevent attacks, of course, but humanitarian and cultural exchanges will be the best prevention from terrorist groups recruiting more people.

This is something that both people in the right and the left in the U.S. can work on together. In fact, I would say that it is necessary to work together since the different emphases that reach worldview have has complementary elements.

This is my contribution to the season of nonviolence at AE
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 15:54
Sorry hugo but I'm not sure exactly where you are coming from. What, in practical terms, does your proposal entail? A few illustrative details might help my understanding.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 20:49
Probably the best way for Americans to end terrorism is to stop the CIA creating it.

Al-Qaeda (the base) is the name of the CIA database of Islamic militants it trained, according to Robin Cook, the British foreign secretary who died in vaguely detailed circumstances in 2005, shortly after his disclosure.
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 22:17
Good point. Unfortunately I don't think that my country people will go with ending the CIA. They have an irrational liking for it.

Among the best CIA hits of all time, which had direct negative impact to the U.S.:

* Bay of Pigs, which triggered the Cuban Nuclear Crisis
* The assassination of the president of South Vietnam, which resulted in a Vietnam escalation
* Funding, training and arming the Afghan freedom fighters during the Soviet occupation, only to see these people become Al Qeada and the Taliban
* Helping the "enemy of my enemy," giving Saddam Hussein a lot more weapons and power, which resulted in the first Golf War

I can't recall if the CIA was involved in this one, but didn't they install the Shah in Iran, which eventually led to the Iranian Revolution?

Yet as most of the people like me don't have direct access to ending the CIA, and many Americans would like to keep it, at the very least we can show the best of Americans at a personal level, while the goverment continues with its dirty tricks.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 00:48
No, I didn't necessarily mean wrapping things up at the CIA - they still have a vital national security role to play.  It's all this pseudo-Machiavellian/realpolitik bullshit I am talking about which give some dickhead at Langley his kick for the day: assassinations, regime change, industrial sabotage, etc.  The closet just won't be able to hold all them skeletons much longer; the proverbial chickens are coming home to roost.  I wish all good Americans the best and hope that they can remain steadfast in the face of what is to come and overall, persevere.

Iran: Yup CIA was responsible for that, the spark of the Iran-America cold war, if I may coin the term .
Back to Top
Brian J Checco View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Eli Manning

Joined: 30-Jan-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 925 		  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 03:20
Good pint Zagros. I mean, since the US Gov't is the only one in the world that fosters political instability outside of it's borders, and arms known terrorist organizations, and escalates cold conflicts at the nuclear level...

You want to talk bullshit? People in glass houses ought not to throw stones.
My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 03:28
Luckily we live in caves, and can throw parts of our homes at everyone else's glass houses.

You have to admit Brian, the US is #1 in that department. At least since the British have gone into retirement (they only do it on Sundays now).
There is one major difference between the way the US does it, and the way everyone else does it: everyone else manages not to screw up so majorly.
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 04:39
Originally posted by Zagros

No, I didn't necessarily mean wrapping things up at the CIA - they still have a vital national security role to play. It's all this pseudo-Machiavellian/realpolitik bullshit I am talking about which give some dickhead at Langley his kick for the day: assassinations, regime change, industrial sabotage, etc. The closet just won't be able to hold all them skeletons much longer; the proverbial chickens are coming home to roost. I wish all good Americans the best and hope that they can remain steadfast in the face of what is to come and overall, persevere.Iran: Yup CIA was responsible for that, the spark of the Iran-America cold war, if I may coin the term .


Hey, I agree. If we tabulate how much good we have gotten from the black bag operations, these seem to have created more trouble in the long run.
Back to Top
vulkan02 View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Termythinator

Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: U$A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 05:21
The CIA was correctly labeled a terrorist organization by the government of Iran.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 10:27
Hello Hugoestr,
 
I liked your thoughtful post Hugo! I think soft-power is just fine at helping others to better understand us. However... what happens when that soft-power also alienates those who come into contact with what we represent, or those who are supposed to represent us in the civilian sector? I'm thinking primarily of the writing's of Sayyid Qtub, who to be brutally  honest... hated the US with a particular passion after a visit here!  Or... if our desire too help is misconstrued as condescending or interferring? Just some thoughts... There are other reasons also, as to why all the transcripts i read on memri, continuously has many intellectual, religous and governmental figures throughout the middle east referring too us as the Great Satan; And not necessarily because of our hard power either?
 
Although to be honest and fair... it's certainly not as bad or as lopsided as it once was, from a year or two ago! There are instances of some Muslim females criticizing the state of affairs for their gender in the region. Or the occasional intellectual asking for the people in the region too look into themseleves, instead of always blaming others for their misfortunes. And a rare politican or even a businessman, who really throw themseleves out there into the arena of the media, by actually going out on a limb by saying that he likes the US or some other Western nation! So, after thinking about it, i do think you have a very good point. But, whatever commitment we decide too follow with the next President, we need to stay heavily engaged through constant contact in the region and the other surrounding regions for atleas tanother decade, which i think is a neccessity of the upmost importance! And i am not neccessarily referring to always being militarily engaged either!
 
Until then, i'm pretty convinced that terrorist will still be created, because no matter what we do at present, i'm afraid too say.... is simply because we exist? Because we are here/there and we are in the way? But... one thing is clear! Things are changing, and whether we like it or not, i'm afraid! Whether it's for the positive or the negative, only time can tell!
 
Take care,
Panther


Edited by Panther - 27-Feb-2008 at 10:28
Back to Top
Cezar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 10:40
Originally posted by hugoestr

Yet as most of the people like me don't have direct access to ending the CIA, and many Americans would like to keep it, at the very least we can show the best of Americans at a personal level, while the goverment continues with its dirty tricks.
Excuse me Hugo, but aren't the US citizens those who elected their goverment? It's not like it was parachuted in DC from Mars. The few US citizens I met in person were not bad people but so are the Serbs, Iranians, Irakians, and many other.
The point is that US people cannot be untied from their goverment. Think of the Germans of the Third Reich. Nowadays Germans even are paranoid on some level (IMO) regarding their behaviour. But I guess that better safe than sorry is a good principle.
So the problem with the US citizens is not that they are evil is that they must involve themselves in the political process more thouroughly. That means responsibility shared. That means giving up part of the individualism that, like it or not, is a distinct characteristic of the US society.
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 10:46
BTW... i did notice the policing comment of yours in the thread starter. The only thing i can add is... was it because of the harsh realities of a "power vaccum" after WW2? Or did we not simply have a choice in all of this, after the 1860's... as if this all were bound too happen anyways?
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 15:28

End capitalism(there is a reason why America does what it does!!) and 90% of the terror would disappear. Starting with the CIA is not a bad idea, or maybe the bankers are the ones that need to hang first.
Back to Top
vulkan02 View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Termythinator

Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: U$A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 15:38
How do you end it when everyone else is getting a piece of the capitalist action. America does what it does to try to preserve its supremacy. Other "Communist" states such as China and also Russia are using capitalism as well - albeit state capitalism which arguably benefits their people better.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 18:59
Originally posted by Cezar

Originally posted by hugoestr

Yet as most of the people like me don't have direct access to ending the CIA, and many Americans would like to keep it, at the very least we can show the best of Americans at a personal level, while the goverment continues with its dirty tricks.

Excuse me Hugo, but aren't the US citizens those who elected their goverment? It's not like it was parachuted in DC from Mars. The few US citizens I met in person were not bad people but so are the Serbs, Iranians, Irakians, and many other.

The point is that US people cannot be untied from their goverment. Think of the Germans of the Third Reich. Nowadays Germans even are paranoid on some level (IMO) regarding their behaviour. But I guess that better safe than sorry is a good principle.

So the problem with the US citizens is not that they are evil is that they must involve themselves in the political process more thouroughly. That means responsibility shared. That means giving up part of the individualism that, like it or not, is a distinct characteristic of the US society.


Hi, Cezar,

You are right to a certain extent. Americans do have a responsibility for electing their own government. At the same time most common Americans don't have too much influence over the matter. As it happens in most countries, the elites actually run the place and make most major decisions.

It is hard to stay engage in civic life. One must have to have a lot of time and money to do it correctly. And many people have more pressing issues to deal with. And it is outright confusing how to do it. I believe that I have an unusually high interest in politics in the U.S., and I am often lost in the process (thank God there are people who are even more interested than I am to guide me )

Voting every 4 years for the leader and every two for congress doesn't give a person too much control.

I don't think that this is the place to dissect how the U.S. government works, but if you want, I could write an article on this
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 19:18
Hi, Panther,

Yes, it is true that some people will just hate the U.S. But we can always keep those numbers low to the point where those cases are just isolated.

If we offer the best in the American character to the world, most will respond favorably.

I don't fully understand your second question. Why are we a world power? Geography: the United States being so far away from the military theaters in WWII made it possible for us to keep our infrastructure intact.

Hi, Constantine,

Americans can bring people from the Middle East to visit and study here. They can go to the Middle East and help with development or educational projects.

And those of us with less money can communicate with people with people online, and maybe work on projects together.

Sound pretty simple, and it is. Unfortunately not a lot of this has been going on.

Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 19:33
Car bomb

Plainly, the 1985 Tunis bombing was a vastly more severe terrorist crime than the Achille Lauro hijacking, or the crime for which Moughniyeh's "involvement can be ascertained with certainty" in the same year. But even the Tunis bombing had competitors for the prize for worst terrorist atrocity in the Mideast in the peak year of 1985.

One challenger was a car-bombing in Beirut right outside a mosque, timed to go off as worshippers were leaving Friday prayers. It killed 80 people and wounded 256. Most of the dead were girls and women, who had been leaving the mosque, though the ferocity of the blast "burned babies in their beds", "killed a bride buying her trousseau", and "blew away three children as they walked home from the mosque". It also "devastated the main street of the densely populated" West Beirut suburb, reported Nora Boustany three years later in the Washington Post.

The intended target had been the Shi'ite cleric Sheikh Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah, who escaped. The bombing was carried out by Reagan's CIA and his Saudi allies, with Britain's help, and was specifically authorized by CIA director William Casey, according to Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward's account in his book Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-1987. Little is known beyond the bare facts, thanks to rigorous adherence to the doctrine that we do not investigate our own crimes (unless they become too prominent to suppress, and the inquiry can be limited to some low-level "bad apples" who were naturally "out of control").


Excerpt from a Noam Chomsky article: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JB28Ak03.html
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 19:35
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Good pint Zagros. I mean, since the US Gov't is the only one in the world that fosters political instability outside of it's borders, and arms known terrorist organizations, and escalates cold conflicts at the nuclear level...

You want to talk bullshit? People in glass houses ought not to throw stones.



If pursuing your rights is the escalation of conflict, then it is a very worthy conflict.

Like Omar I actually live in a cave, somewhere in Afghanistan - Osama would be right beside me if he was actually ever here post 2001. :P



Edited by Zagros - 27-Feb-2008 at 19:40
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 00:40
Originally posted by hugoestr

Hi, Panther,

Yes, it is true that some people will just hate the U.S. But we can always keep those numbers low to the point where those cases are just isolated.
 
It's not my intention to always focus on, why anyone hates the US, or any other Western countries for that matter; Though it does seem like quite a few of my post seem to suggest that. However, the focus in the media has generally been more lopsided toward negativity than objectivty. The atmosphere has been in place and is just right for continued irrational controversy towards American conservatism and will be for some time now. Again, though it's an unpopular stance on this board, the Bush administration isn't the main reason the US is disliked abroad, though it is one of the reasons. I might be wrong about this, but people have this wrong idea about any US conservatism, being in the same league with nazism. That is something i had encountered in the media in the 80's. It relatively died down to a point in the 90's and then picked up again after the 2000 elections. I don't think that is just coincidental! i.e. to make my point more personal, people with belief's like mine, are not popular inside or outside of the US, particularly in the so called blue states. Anyways, has there ever been a disscussion about this on this forum? I really would like to know!
 
If we offer the best in the American character to the world, most will respond favorably.
 
I'm trying my darndest!
 

I don't fully understand your second question. Why are we a world power? Geography: the United States being so far away from the military theaters in WWII made it possible for us to keep our infrastructure intact.
 
 
I know we are now and have been for atleast the past seventy years. But why and when did we start following that path, especially after the warning from our first President to be careful about getting entangled with other foreign powers and alliances? There is disscussion along those lines, in the general history board. Your comment just happened too kind of remind me of it!
 
I hope this helps clarify my previous posts?
 
Panther
Back to Top
Brian J Checco View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
Eli Manning

Joined: 30-Jan-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 925 		  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2008 at 05:50
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Luckily we live in caves, and can throw parts of our homes at everyone else's glass houses.

You have to admit Brian, the US is #1 in that department. At least since the British have gone into retirement (they only do it on Sundays now).
There is one major difference between the way the US does it, and the way everyone else does it: everyone else manages not to screw up so majorly.


Oh, I admit it as readily as the next fellow. The CIA has it's hands in some crazy pies, and sometimes the batch goes sour. But to imagine that this "phenomena" is solely a US issue is astoundingly ignorant. This holier-than-thou-because-my-government-isn't-American stuff here on AE is self-deceptive, to say the least, and downright misguided in many notable cases.
My Name is Eli Manning. Ponce owns my soul.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.