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chicagogeorge
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Topic: Were the Illyrians Greeks? Posted: 10-Aug-2017 at 22:45 |
The Greek like all languages had dialects and were organized early on into tribal societies isolated in a mountainous country with islands.
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chicagogeorge
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Posted: 10-Aug-2017 at 22:43 |
Originally posted by Gentjan
Greeks
have not existed in antiquity as a nation, except as crop called
"Greek" which regards except the people who created it
Pelasgians-Illyrians crop. Everything different from this, is the invention of pseudo nonsense modern science recent centuries. So, the ancient Greek language education was the Pelasgians - Illyrians, Greeks were not people but culture. None of the ancient authors wrote that the Greeks were not people,
because it was culture so "ancient Greek" disappeared into the depths of
centuries, people Enders language (Albanian) pelasgians- ages Illyrians
survived until our days.
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Ridiculous baseless with no evidence whatso ever. Pelasgians never mentioned in Albania or Illyria.
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Gentjan
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Posted: 07-Sep-2016 at 02:18 |
Greeks
have not existed in antiquity as a nation, except as crop called
"Greek" which regards except the people who created it
Pelasgians-Illyrians crop. Everything different from this, is the invention of pseudo nonsense modern science recent centuries. So, the ancient Greek language education was the Pelasgians - Illyrians, Greeks were not people but culture. None of the ancient authors wrote that the Greeks were not people,
because it was culture so "ancient Greek" disappeared into the depths of
centuries, people Enders language (Albanian) pelasgians- ages Illyrians
survived until our days.
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Guests
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Posted: 22-Jun-2014 at 23:25 |
Fllipper, po te fola un shqip" illiro thrake" po deshe ti ,smer vesh asnje gjysem fjale ,ajo iligreqishtja jote ska lidhje fare, flipper buddy, you obviously greek, so you get serious your impartiality in this thread is just as questionable.Its hard for any one to make any claims yet, on what they were , since no one, has researched them, some say the older settlemens have a similarity to the Mycenae culture,but that doesn't mean, they were greek, the Mycenae culture was seperate culture and people, and yes the greeks were more literate than illyrians thanks to their influence from the near eastern cultures and middleastern cultures , particularly the phenicyans and their alphabet the ifestos plate rings a bell, a closely guarded secret stolen from them. All this said there is enough info that makes the fact that the illyrians were different people, there are three languages spoken in the Ballkans current version of Greek ,Slavic ( all its variants)and Albanian(2 dialects) none of them Related.
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Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 19:25 |
Originally posted by chicagogeorge
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Strabo, Geography, 7. 11
What is now called Macedonia was in earlier times called Emathia. And it took its present name from Macedon, one of its early chieftains. And there was also a city emathia close to the sea. Now a part of this country was taken and held by certain of the Epeirotes and the Illyrians, but most of it by the Bottiaei and the Thracians. The Bottiaei came from Crete originally, so it is said, along with Botton as chieftain.
It's obvious that macedonians are non-greek people but mostly Epeirotes, Illyrians and Thracians
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HEROI
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Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 17:10 |
who is talking about ancient Mollossia or thesprotiia??????
I am saing that Epiros for as long as concreete historical evidence exists was and still remains an albanian speaking region.
You dont agree with this??
Most of what is today Greece was not inhabited by Greek speaking people during Ottoman empire,as for before that ,i told you is a matter of opinion ,you and i can not prove anything.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Flipper
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Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 14:31 |
Originally posted by Anton
Albanians a majority in Salonika? LOL |
I hope that comments like that make you understand my frustration...
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Anton
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Posted: 27-Feb-2008 at 11:58 |
Albanians a majority in Salonika? LOL
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 23:23 |
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 23:14 |
Heroi, you post simply rubbish...
I'm gonna start a thread about Thesprotia and Molossia. If you agree to participate I demand you post sources to your riddiculus claims.
That means, i want refferences to everything you post...I do not intend to loose my time on childish "I've heard/i think posts".
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HEROI
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 22:46 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Originally posted by HEROI
Maybe you would not like to call epirus Illyrian for obvious reasons,but you cant deny most of it was Albanian,and still is i am afraid
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I take that as a provocation. Show me the following:
1) How the Albanians are fore sure Illyrians 2) Were do you read in ancient time that Epirotans were ALbanians? 3) What does Epiros mean in ALbanian Heroi?
I am not talking about Illyrian times for which you can not prove nothing,and for sure we would end up in endless debate,bu i am saing Albanian,and historical evidence shows that during ottoman empire almost all Epiros was inhabited by Albanian speaking population,or dont you agree?Or dont you agree that it still remains?
in Albanian is not Epiros,but EPIRI,and it can mean different things,i dont know what it meant back then,and nither do you.
Originally posted by HEROI
So i going to acept the fact epirotans were Greeks,but in return you have to acept Greeks spoke Albanian.Hard to digest????
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Opote katalavaineis ti sou grafo? Don't you Heroi? Or are your claims baseless? Maybe you could tell me how that would be in Albanian? Boreis na metafraseis? We can now conversate in a common language then Heroi. Lets go for it...I will post everything in ancient greek/illyrian if you want.
No my friend,but i can freely conversate in common language with most of people living in Epiros region today.that language is perhaps Illyrian,perhaps ancient Greek,perhaps just Albanian,but for sure it aint Greek.
Originally posted by HEROI
Well my friend whoever Illyrians were i dont care,concrete evidence shows that Albanian language ,folk and traditions dominate overwelmingly in the Epiros region and as long as there is concrete historical evidence to go by,they always did.
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Show me where exactly is Albanian: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/main
Albanian is today,and as i said is been from time that concrete evidence exists,such as during the Ottoman empire.
Originally posted by HEROI
Dont make me now go to the Epiros topic,cause we will go to endless debate ,not through any fault of mine i am afraid.
The fact that a region as epiros has had both Albanians and Greeks who were almost unrecognisible in traditions,tells one that this two people could not have been very different even before.
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Oh please I can do that...don't worry. I can go through all the latest epic albanian discoveries...Kemal Ataturk the Albanian for instance
That is a much more valid claim then Epiros being somehow conected with modern Greece.At leest lets not forget,that Kemal was born i Salonika,which at the time Albanians made the majority of the population.What do you think ,ehh |
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 22:13 |
Originally posted by HEROI
Maybe you would not like to call epirus Illyrian for obvious reasons,but you cant deny most of it was Albanian,and still is i am afraid
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I take that as a provocation. Show me the following: 1) How the Albanians are fore sure Illyrians 2) Were do you read in ancient time that Epirotans were ALbanians? 3) What does Epiros mean in ALbanian Heroi?
Originally posted by HEROI
So i going to acept the fact epirotans were Greeks,but in return you have to acept Greeks spoke Albanian.Hard to digest????
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Opote katalavaineis ti sou grafo? Don't you Heroi? Or are your claims baseless? Maybe you could tell me how that would be in Albanian? Boreis na metafraseis? We can now conversate in a common language then Heroi. Lets go for it...I will post everything in ancient greek/illyrian if you want.
Originally posted by HEROI
Well my friend whoever Illyrians were i dont care,concrete evidence shows that Albanian language ,folk and traditions dominate overwelmingly in the Epiros region and as long as there is concrete historical evidence to go by,they always did.
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Show me where exactly is Albanian: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/main
Originally posted by HEROI
Dont make me now go to the Epiros topic,cause we will go to endless debate ,not through any fault of mine i am afraid.
The fact that a region as epiros has had both Albanians and Greeks who were almost unrecognisible in traditions,tells one that this two people could not have been very different even before.
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Oh please I can do that...don't worry. I can go through all the latest epic albanian discoveries...Kemal Ataturk the Albanian for instance
Edited by Flipper - 26-Feb-2008 at 22:14
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HEROI
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 22:00 |
As i told you things changed with the fall of the Ottomans,and the rise oif balkan nationalism.You should get out of this mentality if you want to see clearly.
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HEROI
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 21:58 |
Maybe you would not like to call epirus Illyrian for obvious reasons,but you cant deny most of it was Albanian,and still is i am afraid
So i going to acept the fact epirotans were Greeks,but in return you have to acept Greeks spoke Albanian.Hard to digest????Well my friend whoever Illyrians were i dont care,concrete evidence shows that Albanian language ,folk and traditions dominate overwelmingly in the Epiros region and as long as there is concrete historical evidence to go by,they always did.
Dont make me now go to the Epiros topic,cause we will go to endless debate ,not through any fault of mine i am afraid.
The fact that a region as epiros has had both Albanians and Greeks who were almost unrecognisible in traditions,tells one that this two people could not have been very different even before.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 21:45 |
Originally posted by HEROI
As for the Vucedols being there before the Illyrians,the accepted theory among historians is that before Illyrians there were the pelasgians,who may come in the names of Vucedols among others,as latter the Greeks came in the names of Spartans among others,and Illyrians in the name of epirotas among others |
Heroi...get serious. Don't make me start about Pelasgians. Serbs were the Illyrians 2 centuries ago remember? Nobody except some albanians believes that. Pelasgians never inhabited Illyria. As for Epirotans...Have you forgot the Molossian decrees, Skylax, the Aecidae, the Greki and Selloi to start with? Maybe a new tribe of Illyrians will emerge soon from an epic discovery and they will be called the Greklirians. Heroi, i suggest you leave the hokus pocus romantic natioalism posted in Albanian forums and stick to concrete evidence. Don't make me resurect old posts about Epirus. Generally do not touch the Epirus matter. It won't end in a nice way...
Edited by Flipper - 26-Feb-2008 at 21:47
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HEROI
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 21:33 |
we dont have any evidence to prove nither of this claims,so it remains just an matter of opinion.The fact that Illyrians felt comfortable in the culture they inhabited,which was very simmilar to Greek culture proves that they were not so different after all.
As for the Vucedols being there before the Illyrians,the accepted theory among historians is that before Illyrians there were the pelasgians,who may come in the names of Vucedols among others,as latter the Greeks came in the names of Spartans among others,and Illyrians in the name of epirotas among others
I dont see how they were different,or how they could have been more different that they were under the Ottoman empire or that they are today.
If you know you can tell me.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 20:52 |
Originally posted by HEROI
i dont think the Illyrians were Greeks.Illyrians were Illyrians and Greeks were Greeks,thats why they have different names.
I dont think that they were very different from each other nither,the fact that in Albania exists cities more then 2000 years history, (Durres has 3000 Years history i think) proves the point that if they were not people of the same culture who freely interacted with each other then it would not have been posible for that culture to have been preserved there from ancient times up to the fall of the Ottoman empire.
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The oldest settlements in Albania are not Illyrian however...The Illyrians brought a new culture to the area that is more similar to the Celts. The previous culture was the Vucedol.
Originally posted by HEROI
Another very important factor is the presence of Albanian speaking people in Greece which have been an majority in many places in Greece untill the fall of the Ottomans and the creation of the balkan nationalism.
This can not be ignored. |
And vise versa The difference is the time periods those phenomenas occured. For the first it is Ottoman years, while the second dates back to antiquity. The timelines shouldn't be ignored eather
Edited by Flipper - 26-Feb-2008 at 20:54
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Penelope
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 19:35 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Originally posted by boreans
One of the Dardanian largest tribes was called CHELIDONES, the same as a greek tribe in the heart of Hellas, Peloponnesus. What do you call this? |
You already have plenty of evidence on this page showing they belong to a different culture. Now can you show us a reference on the Chelidones? I have never encountered a tribe named so. Besides, even if i'm missing something, Chelidones are the "snailmen".
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My thoughts exactly. There is ample enough evidence in this thread already proving that the Illyrians were not Greek.
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HEROI
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 18:03 |
i dont think the Illyrians were Greeks.Illyrians were Illyrians and Greeks were Greeks,thats why they have different names.
I dont think that they were very different from each other nither,the fact that in Albania exists cities more then 2000 years history, (Durres has 3000 Years history i think) proves the point that if they were not people of the same culture who freely interacted with each other then it would not have been posible for that culture to have been preserved there from ancient times up to the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Another very important factor is the presence of Albanian speaking people in Greece which have been an majority in many places in Greece untill the fall of the Ottomans and the creation of the balkan nationalism.
This can not be ignored.
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Flipper
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Posted: 26-Feb-2008 at 08:03 |
Hecateus mentions the Chelidones to be the following:
"lived on their northern borders towards the Mat or Drin valleys"
Where are they mentioned in Peloponesus?
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