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Northeast European Tribe, Scythian
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Slayertplsko View Drop Down
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Northeast European Tribe, Scythian
    Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 10:07
Oh yeah, the possibilities are unlimited. Just one limit. A Slavic city, logically can't have Slavic origin...that would be unbelievableLOL
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 10:29
That is really unbelievable, cities of Iraq can't have Arabic origin, cities of Turkey can't have Turkic origin, ... the problem is that ultra-nationalists don't want to believe that some other peoples lived in their countries before them!
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 11:18
You shouldn't speak of ultranationalists....

Kiev was simply founded by a Slavic knyaz Kyi, and the name of the city is a possessive form. Why should it have Persian origin??


Edited by Slayertplsko - 16-Sep-2008 at 11:19
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 12:29

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Do you mean it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyi,_Schek_and_Khoryv Kyi (alt. sp. Kiy, Kij or Kyj), Schek and Khoryv (Russian: Кий, Щек, Хорив) are the three legendary brothers.

Herodotus talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2008 at 16:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.



Edited by Slayertplsko - 16-Sep-2008 at 16:49
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 02:08
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

That is really unbelievable, cities of Iraq can't have Arabic origin, cities of Turkey can't have Turkic origin, ... the problem is that ultra-nationalists don't want to believe that some other peoples lived in their countries before them!
 
Exactly, it's obvious that the cities of Iran were founded by Fenno-Ugrians why don't you believe in this fact?
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 11:59

I will certainly believe it, if you prove it.
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 13:27
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Do you mean it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyi,_Schek_and_Khoryv Kyi (alt. sp. Kiy, Kij or Kyj), Schek and Khoryv (Russian: Кий, Щек, Хорив) are the three legendary brothers.

Herodotus talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8

Herodotus gives three names, Lipoxais, Arpoxais the elder brothers, and Colaxais the youngest and the only one who was able to touch the golden items that fell from the sky thus becoming king. He never did mention an important sister like thos three brothers and SISTER.
Those 4 figures also seem to represent locations in that link you gave, something the three Scythian brother's names don't have.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 13:40
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

You shouldn't speak of ultranationalists....

Kiev was simply founded by a Slavic knyaz Kyi, and the name of the city is a possessive form. Why should it have Persian origin??
It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink
 
 
Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Ukrainian: Майдан Незалежності, literally: Independence Square) is the central square of Kiev, the capital city of Ukraine.
 
Current name's etymology

"Maidan" literally translates from Ukrainian as square; this word originally came from Persian.

Following the construction, the old familiar look of the square, with its many fountains, was significantly altered and the public reaction to the new look of the square was initially mixed.[5] However, by now the square's monument to Kyi, Schek and Khoryv - the legendary founders of Kiev.
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 15:05
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 16:24
Actually, Kiy, Shek and Horiv story is just a legend. It's, however, very likely that Kiev was founded by Khazars as  a trading and customs office on Dnieper river. Smile
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 17:40
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
"Maidan" is a very Persian word which in fact means "Centre" (Maid=mid + suffix -an=place), in the Avestan language it is "Maidhyana".
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Posts: 1061 		  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 17:51
[Origin: 1615–25; < Hindi maidān < Pers < Ar maydān]

here
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:45
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.

 
I have three sons. We haven't founded any cities yet though.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It seems some things have really Persian origin there! Wink


I never said they can't, just that they NECESSARILY NEEDN'T! You seem to have made a hobby out of seeking Persian or Iranian etymologies for everything on Earth.

What was the article burbling about 1991?? Anyway, it's an Arabic word.
"Maidan" is a very Persian word which in fact means "Centre" (Maid=mid + suffix -an=place), in the Avestan language it is "Maidhyana".
 
But you said earlier it meant 'square'.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 18:54
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

[Origin: 1615–25; < Hindi maidān < Pers < Ar maydān]

here
I think Arabs themselves have never claimed an Arabic origin for this word, it is very obvious that it can't be an Arabic word, if you know a little about this language.
 
 
 Arab. Maydán (from Persian); Lane generally translates it "horse-course," and Payne "tilting-yard." It is both and something more; an open space, in or near the city, used for reviewing troops, races, playing the Jeríd (cane-spear) and other sports and exercises: thus Al-Maydan = Gr. hippodrome. The game here alluded to is our "polo," or hockey on horseback, a favourite with the Persian Kings, as all old illustrations of the Shahnamah show. Maydan is also a natural plain for which copious Arabic has many terms; Fayhah or Sath (a plain generally), Khabt (a low-lying plain), Bat'há (a low sandy flat), Mahattah (a plain fit for halting) and so forth. (Pilgrimage iii., 11.)
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 19:03
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Iranic not Persian, please try to distinguish the differences between them, Scythian was an Iranian language, not Persian.

Thanks for educating a simple Slovak guy. I didn't realise there was a difference between these two.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Herodotus,

who had been long dead by the time Kiev was founded
talks about three legendary Scythian brothers who found Scythia. -> Histories of Herodotus, Book 4, 8


It seems he talks about different three brothers. Anyway, Svätopluk, the most famous Great Moravian knyaz, also had three sons. It's not that uncommon to have three sons.

 
I have three sons. We haven't founded any cities yet though.
That is just a three brothers legend which has probably a Scythian origin, do you believe Iran, Turan and Sarmatia were found by "Iraj, Tur and Salm" or Poland, Bohemia, Ruthenia were found by "Lech, Czech and Rus", ...?
 
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 19:03

What is so surprising about the use of Persian word "maidan" in Ukrainian language?

The word itself is not Ukrainian or Slavic in origin it was borrowed from Crimean Tatar language (Ukrainian language BTW has more Turkic words than Russian for example) while Tatars adopted this word from Persian. In fact Turkic languages in general bear huge Persian influence.
 
Ukrainians and Russians also have a word "shkola" for school for example. Does it mean that they originate from ancient Greeks?  Confused  What a nonsense !
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 20:01
We are discussing about the origins of the names not the nations, Maidan is a place name in Keiv which has an Iranic origin, there could be some other Iranic-origin palce or people names in this region, such as Kiev itself, why not?
 
For example lets read what Ukrainians themselves say:
 
A Ukrainian Website: Worldwide Ukrainian Community www.Ukrainians.ca
 
http://www.ukrainians.ca/content/view/24/2/lang,en/ : The Anti are normally identified with proto-Ukrainians. The name anti is of Iranic origin and means people living on the borderland.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 17-Sep-2008 at 20:09
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2008 at 20:45
Well. Maidan literally means a "square" in Ukrainian. Like Red square, or Trafalgar square etc. Likewise there is the "Independence Square" in Kiev which in Urkainian sounds like "Maidan Nezalezhnosti."
 
Arabs, Turks and Indians also use "Maidan." Are they all Iranians? I feel that there is something strange with this logic.
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