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Africa, Bible the untold truth

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  Quote joeamonroe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Africa, Bible the untold truth
    Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 19:27
This is just a ruff theory on how I feel so far, I left this unedited to see what type of feed back I would receive
 

Part 1

 

In my brief study of faith, it has shown how the masses have been misled about the history and the true purpose of religion. We must first look to the continent of Africa to know her real history. Most people reading the bible dont know geography so they fail to see connection between the locations and the people.  If we are to believe that the bible is law and what is written is correct then how can you not say that the world didnt start in Africa. How can you not say that the people of Egypt didnt already have a great system in place for thousands of years before Christian even started? In brief Ancient Egyptians had developed a very complex religion system called Mysteries which was also the first system of salvation. For those who dont know Washington DC is of Egyptian design. Knights Templar, Masonic lodges all over the world (Whites - George Washington and Blacks Prince Hall), and various other orders all follow Egyptian teaching. All of the founding fathers where masons.

 

Throughout history and even in the bible Africans have been betrayed in a negative light starting with the Jews. The part that makes no sense is the fact that the Egyptian always seem to take in distressed men of the Jewish community. First starting with Joseph who accomplished great things for the pharaoh who in turn allows the Jews to come into Africa by invitation and flourish. No place in recorded history does it show that the Jews where slaves to Africans. Little know fact: For one thing, the Jews refuse to assimilate. They maintain their own language, their own diet, they did not intermarry, and worst of all, and they asserted their religious laws to be superior to that of the state. The Jews are very cohesive peoples. The facts remain the same to this day in large degrees. The next great man of the Jewish community is Moses, who was put in a basket and sent down the river. Raised and Educated in all the ancient ways of the Egyptians Mystery System. Egyptian Pharaohs did this with some frequency. Even Nubian royal children were adopted into the royal household and raised as princes of Egypt, to return in adulthood to their own peoples, to rule in symbiosis with Egypt.  The last of the great man of the Jews community is Jesus Christ. Know answer this question if the Egyptians hated the Jews then why GOD would send there savior to the one place that hated them as well. Also to throw salt on the wound why has Jesus life in Egypt been omitted out of the bible? Finally you first see Jesus at 9 then at 30 was he just chillin, hiding out. Lastly no one can explain why Jesus was first crucified in Egypt Rev 11:8 

 

Part 2

 

This piece is not intended to detour anyone from changing their faith or claiming that one is better then the other. The only way to really understand a point of view is to first evaluate as many perspectives as possible to effectively provide an acceptation point of view. Many blacks say that it doesnt matter what color GOD is and I say thats an great injustice to our people and way of life. If the color of Jesus didnt matter why would so many whites have a picture of a white man up in their homes? Lets look at this from a different perspective Christian is based out of the middle-east off spring of the Judaism faith, which is the oldest surviving monotheistic religion. (Monotheistic the belief in one GOD; Abraham is traditionally considered to be the first Jew and to have made a covenant with God. Because Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all recognize Abraham as their first prophet, they are also called the Abrahamic religions.) This paper also intends to show how the major religions have put GOD into a box.

 

Most peoples have never doubted it. In modern times an argument has developed regarding who believed it first, and what the justification and rules are, for any particular claim or belief, as religions have turned the worship of the Highest into some kind of competition. Just how and why the worship of God got turned into a competitive act is a true mystery itself. If God be limited in anything, then that God is not Supreme! To say that God can not be known by all (Nations) in the here and now is to place a limitation on God. One may say that this doesnt change the fact that mankind is limited and far from perfect. But the imperfections of man have absolutely no power whatsoever to confer limitations on God. Whoever says so is incorrect. Also incorrect is the political assertion that the pathways to God are limited, for this also places a limitation on God. Those who have turned the worship of God into a matter of religious competition have done the devils work. As do those who have made the worship of God a competitive act. There can be no limitations placed on the seeking of God, and yet most organized religions now do so. The political divisions between competing sects are unending.

 

Part 3

Think of this: Israel is supposed to be the chosen nation priest hood for all to see and follow behind. (Based on the Covenant with GOD Deuteronmy 4 4:8 4 but all of you who held fast to the LORD your God are still alive today.

    5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the LORD my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?)

 That never came true in the bible because the people never wanted to follow direction but for some reason thanks to the holocaust we could now make what was written come true. Why of all the places in the world was the Jews put them in the Middle East.   

 

History lesson: Jews have been leaving in the Middle East and all over the world for years and never had any problems until due to US and European influence they decided to move all the Jews to the Middle East. Once this was known to all the people of the Middle East they told the world that this would be a war like no other until the end of days, so far they have been true to their word.

 

Now ask yourself why a national of people who went through the holocaust want to commit the same horrors on another national of people. Ask yourself why US and Europe supported all the decision of Israel no matter what with billions of dollars in aid and military assistances.   

 

See whether you believe me or not its happening right before your eyes and many of you support it without even saying a word.

 

Joe
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 20:02
You need to provide the source for that text. Otherwise, it constitutes plagiarism under the CoC.
 
VII-B-11: Plagiarism, the posting of texts found elsewhere without naming either author or source. Posting your own personal commentary is encouraged when copy/pasting from another source. When pasting attempt to place the content in quotes, highlight or underline for presentation purposes. Provide a correct URL link. When referencing from books or periodicals provide the title of the reference, the author and publication date. Posts where the paste is the arguement itself, while not adhering to these requirements, will be deleted. 
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 03-Dec-2007 at 20:03
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 20:07
[Most people reading the bible dont know geography so they fail to see connection between the locations and the people.]
 
Seems a sweeping statement and a quite patronising belief to hold.
 
 
[How can you not say that the people of Egypt didnt already have a great system in place for thousands of years before Christian even started?]
 
I know of no-one in the world who denies the existence of Ancient Egypt or the even older Sumeria. In fact until today I knew of no-one who thought there was actual people in the world who thought Egypt didn't exist.
 
 
[Throughout history and even in the bible Africans have been betrayed in a negative light starting with the Jews]
 
There were never any Jews in Egypt. The old testament is a story, it's not actually true and the whole Moses, Ramases, leading the people out of Egypt thing just mythology.
 
 
[If the color of Jesus didnt matter why would so many whites have a picture of a white man up in their homes?]
 
To paraphrase Xenophanes, man made god in his image, the Ethiopians believed god is black, Thracians hes red headed and blue eyed and that if cattle could speak they would insist hes a black and white patched bovine with four hooves.
 
 
[There can be no limitations placed on the seeking of God]
 
Atheism is a damn good limitation.
 
 
 


Edited by Paul - 03-Dec-2007 at 20:11
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 21:27
What is your point? 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 21:35
Originally posted by red clay

What is your point? 


I found myself asking the same question...

The general policy seems to be to ask other people what they think about a subject, allowing some interest in the topic to be generated, before jumping into long winded historical theories/ explanations. As opposed to, well... see above, I guess.
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 21:44
Originally posted by joeamonroe

Lastly no one can explain why Jesus was first crucified in Egypt Rev 11:8 

 



I'm sure there are many other statements that will stick out to other forummers, but this one stood out to me particularly, and having only a limited time to reply, this will be the focus of initial response (lousy classes...)

1- Well, for one thing, I was not aware that he was crucified more than once. Either this Christ fellow was one tough nutter to be able to take more than one crucifixion, which seems unlikely.

2- Although none of the Gospels were written by contemporaries of Jesus, IIRC, Revelations was an even later Canonical text... so if the highlighted first implies chronology of authorship, that point is also unlikely.

More than likely, he was crucified only once, in Palestine, at the (wash'ed) hands of Pontius Pilate... not once, or even twice, in Egypt, where a) there was not a sizable Jewish population amongst whom to proselytize, and b) he is not  recorded as having traveled to. Why extradite a criminal to a foreign land for the purpose of trying and executing them? Criminals in New York are not extradited to Florida for trial, why send a fellow from Palestine (Judea) to Egypt?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 21:53
Originally posted by Brian J Checco

Originally posted by red clay

What is your point? 


I found myself asking the same question...

 
LOL
 
Co-sign. I was thinking the same.


Edited by pinguin - 03-Dec-2007 at 21:54
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 07:35

There were never any Jews in Egypt. The old testament is a story, it's not actually true and the whole Moses, Ramases, leading the people out of Egypt thing just mythology.


Well actually IIRC there is an inscription in an egyptian tomb of the period that lists under known neighboring nations a "wandering people"  that coincides with the Exodus of the Bible. A few archaeologists have concluded that these people may be the Hebrews under Moses.



1- Well, for one thing, I was not aware that he was crucified more than once.


According to traditional belief the Crucifixion is a timeless event, thus Christ is always in a state of Crucifixion, at least spiritually.


2- Although none of the Gospels were written by contemporaries of Jesus,


The Gospel of John could argue that point.


You need to provide the source for that text. Otherwise, it constitutes plagiarism under the CoC.


I believe the OP wrote this as an original document. I will caution joeamonroe that if he wants this to be viewed as a scholarly paper you must use proper citations for your assertions (i.e. the information you used to come up with your theory). Otherwise it's just a rant with no weight behind it.

How can you not say that the people of Egypt didnt already have a great system in place for thousands of years before Christian even started?


They did have a great religious system in place, I don't think many people would argue this, they also existed for a couple of thousand years before Christianity, and ultimately faded into oblivion.

In brief Ancient Egyptians had developed a very complex religion system called Mysteries which was also the first system of salvation.


I doubt that they were the first as the Ancient Egyptians existed long after earlier civilizations like Sumer, Shang, and Indus Valley. Also the first recognized city Catal Huyuk seems to have had pretty vibrant religious beliefs based on the afterlife.

For those who dont know Washington DC is of Egyptian design. Knights Templar, Masonic lodges all over the world (Whites - George Washington and Blacks Prince Hall), and various other orders all follow Egyptian teaching.


Masons follow Egyptian teaching in the same way that Wiccans follow Druidic teaching. That being in a completely reconstructed manner created by the founders of the philosophy who never experienced the base culture themselves and mostly used any source no matter how incorrect to create the philosophy.

All of the founding fathers where masons.


Not true, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton and John Hancock have never been officially recognized as Masons.

Throughout history and even in the bible Africans have been betrayed in a negative light starting with the Jews.



Ever heard of Simon of Cyrene an African who bore Jesus cross at the crucifixion, hardly a negative light. Also the Ethiopian treasurer listed in Acts chapter 8 is treated in a very positive light as an eager convert to Christianity. And in Acts 13:1 an Africans are classified as "teachers and prophets" of the church gathered at Antioch, again not negative.

Know answer this question if the Egyptians hated the Jews then why GOD would send there savior to the one place that hated them as well.


I have never known anyone to have made the assertion that Ancient Egyptians hated jews. BTW, God sent Joseph and Mary with the young Jesus into "Egypt" (most probably somewhere near Gaza) because it was a fulfillment of scripture that would mark Jesus as the messiah.

Also to throw salt on the wound why has Jesus life in Egypt been omitted out of the bible?


It has? See Matthew 2:14-21. Why would the first 5 or 6 years (at most) of Jesus' life be even IN the Bible. The Bible is not an autobiography of Jesus of Nazareth. It is a book of divine teachings, and only the portions of Jesus' life that pertain to his ministry are in the book. It's the same reason we don't hear of the years he spent in Palestine from about 13-30 years old, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary during that time.

Lastly no one can explain why Jesus was first crucified in Egypt Rev 11:8


Then allow me to explain to you:


" Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, 7 which has the symbolic names "Sodom" and "Egypt," where indeed their Lord was crucified."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The great city: this expression is used constantly in Rev for Babylon, i.e., Rome; cf Rev 14:8; 16:19; 17:18; 18:2, 10, 21. "Sodom" and "Egypt": symbols of immorality (cf Isaiah 1:10) and oppression of God's people (cf Exodus 1:11-14). Where indeed their Lord was crucified: not the geographical but the symbolic Jerusalem that rejects God and his witnesses, i.e., Rome, called Babylon in Rev 16-18; see the note on Rev 17:9 and Introduction.


The only way to really understand a point of view is to first evaluate as many perspectives as possible to effectively provide an acceptation point of view.


Agreed and a very mature viewpoint.

Lets look at this from a different perspective Christian is based out of the middle-east off spring of the Judaism faith, which is the oldest surviving monotheistic religion.


True but it wasn't the oldest monotheistic religion, ironically enough that title belongs to the faith of an Egyptian pharoah, Akhenaten the father of Tutenkhamun, who proclaimed the belief in the Sun-God Aten. At this time the Jewish faith was not yet purely Monotheistic, that would occur later with Moses.

 That never came true in the bible because the people never wanted to follow direction but for some reason thanks to the holocaust we could now make what was written come true. Why of all the places in the world was the Jews put them in the Middle East.  



That section of the Bible was never meant as a prophecy, rather it was an instruction on how to conduct their rule in a Godly fashion. That is a perfect vision, and as we all know perfection is difficult to come by.

History lesson: Jews have been leaving in the Middle East and all over the world for years and never had any problems until due to US and European influence they decided to move all the Jews to the Middle East. Once this was known to all the people of the Middle East they told the world that this would be a war like no other until the end of days, so far they have been true to their word.


I would have to disagree with this, no problems? Um....Holocaust? Pogroms? Ghettos? The jews have had a lot of problems since the roman era. Also the Jews NEVER left the Middle East, they may have lost their monopoly on the region but they have always had a presence, I mean Jerusalem has always had a jewish quarter for a reason.

Also Zionism was not a product of the US or European thought rather Zionism started as a purely Jewish idea in the growing era of the creation of nation-states in europe, the Jewish leaders thought that they too should have their own home in their original homeland of Palestine. Even after World War II the creation of Israel was aided by Churchill's own zionistic views based on the Balfour Declaration. So if you could say anything it was just Britain who created Israel in the midst of subjugated Arab peoples.

Now for some general feedback. I as a reader am unsure at what the main goal of your paper is? This seems more like three independent papers meshed into one with very flimsy connections between the three.

The first part is trying to explain a perceived anti-Egyptian bias in Christianity, and how that is hypocritical to what the Bible actually teaches. Personally I wouldn't find much merit in such a paper (as my responses list) but it could be interesting if well researched.

The second part seems to be an editorial on how the abrahamic religions (mostly christianity and judaism it seems) have limited the concept of God by the manner of their preachings. You attempt to use logic to explain your position but I feel you could have done in it in a more concise and clear manner, which would better extrapolate on your assertions.

The third part seems to be an anti-Zionist (but not necessarily anti-semetic) paper that expresses confusion over the creation and continued support of the nation of Israel in the face of world politics. I personally believe that this wouldn't make a good paper, as your chosen topics on the issue have been rehashed many times before, and express a view that is pretty well established amongst academics. Also I believe your choice in Biblical quotes to base this assertion on is a bit wanting, I'm certain you can find a better one to explain your opinion.

All in all it starts out interesting but leaves me wanting at the end. If I were you I would go about the first and second parts and go into more detail. While leaving the third part out entirely. Also I would definitely recommend you cite (or re-discover) your sources so that others can follow up on your papers.
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 07:50
Nice, thourough critique, Janus. Clap
 
I would note that the origin of all of the Gospels -- if not their authorship -- can be ascribed to Jesus' contempraries.
 
-Akolouthos
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  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 12:45
The bible is like tequila
long live the king of bhutan
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  Quote joeamonroe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 12:57

I would like to thank everyone for their response to what I have provided. I have used various sources whom which I agree and make no claim to their insight. This is my first forum and wanted to get some feed back on my thoughts. I will provide a list of the books and websites I have read and referenced to show that I have not in anyway tried to still anyone's work:

The Myth of Exodus and Genesis

The Africans Who Wrote the bible

Papyrus of Ani - The Egypt book of the dead
The white mans burden

The Squandering of America

African Origins of Major Western Religions

Our Black Seminarians and Black Clergy without a black theology

A chronology of the bible: challenge to the standard version

The Mis-education of the Negro

The Negro

www.OpenCheops.org

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=880

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=142&letter=G#525

http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=africa_history

http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/diaspora/part1/pwrpnt/Christianity/

http://africawithin.com/jochannan/dr_ben.htm

http://www.quranexplorer.com

http://www.bookofconcord.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/index_section2.shtml

http://www.world-mysteries.com/

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/ancientafrica.html

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=880

http://www.prophetskurds.com/frames.htm

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  Quote joeamonroe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 12:58
You are right, this is my forum and I have provided a response at the bottom of the page
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  Quote joeamonroe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 13:03
thanks for the feed back
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  Quote joeamonroe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 13:14

I had a few ideas and wanted some feed back and direction to better understand faith, religion and history. I was unable to find that with my friends so I sort out a way to post some thoughts and get feed back in a way that would make me a better person. These are only ideas or feelings I have had and wanted to explore whether or not what I thought was really true  and how to go about finding the truth or close to it. thanks again for your response and I will do a better job to make things clear the next time around

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  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 13:21
a pinch of salt is required
long live the king of bhutan
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 17:45
Originally posted by Akolouthos

Nice, thourough critique, Janus. Clap
 
I would note that the origin of all of the Gospels -- if not their authorship -- can be ascribed to Jesus' contempraries.
 
-Akolouthos


I wouldn't go stating that as fact, there's still plenty of debate surrounding that issue.

Cheers to Janus; that critique masterful, sir.

I also heartily agree with Longshanks, however. In order to be an objective Biblical scholar, the Book must be taken with a grain of salt. When people start distributing a basket of bread and anchovies and are able to feed 500 people, the reader ought to suspect something fisky is going on with the "history" presented therein. That said, there are some wonderful books on Biblical history out there.

I'd also like to point out to Janus that the Hebrews had not thoroughly adopted Monotheism by the time of Moses; why in the whole Old Testament do the Israelites keep getting punished by God for their pagan and Canaanite beliefs if they are such "Monotheists?" Kudos as per Akhenaten, by the way.
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  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 18:07
Aye, that there is. I was presenting an argument, which I feel is factual, but you are correct in noting that there is debate. I believe that the preponderance of evidence indicates that the epistles were directly written by contemporary authors, and that the Gospels, if not written by the authors, themselves, were collections redacted shortly after their deaths. There are other, quite erudite scholars, however, who would put the authorship much, much later.
 
I'll let Janus answer the questions regarding punishments for syncretism in the Old Testament.
 
-Akolouthos


Edited by Akolouthos - 04-Dec-2007 at 18:08
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  Quote jdalton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 18:53
I don't know why anyone would be surprised that the Egyptians in Moses' time don't come off looking very good. From the Bible's perspective, they have the wrong religion. The Bible is a religious text and an exponent of monotheism. Thus its monotheism is regularly put in contrast to competing religious groups within Judaism/Christianity and without. The Egyptians suffer plagues designed to belittle specific characters in their pantheon (example: the plague of darkness undermines the power of Ra, sun god). The Philistines are in an almost constant state of war with Israel. The Jews in captivity in Babylon find ways to show up Babylonian "idolatry." Alexander the Great is remarkably similar to descriptions of the Antichrist. The Romans go ahead and execute the Son of God simply to maintain their authority over the corrupt Jewish puppet state. Ironically it's the Jews themselves who get it the worst- every time a Biblical personage turns away from God something bad seems to happen to them. The Bible is religion-centric, not race-centric. 
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 07:23

I would like to thank everyone for their response to what I have provided. I have used various sources whom which I agree and make no claim to their insight. This is my first forum and wanted to get some feed back on my thoughts. I will provide a list of the books and websites I have read and referenced to show that I have not in anyway tried to still anyone's work:


Hopefully we helped you out a bit joeamonroe. None of us were saying you were plagiarizing it's just when you list theories that haven't gained mainstream acceptance and don't list where you got them from anyone can come across as a bit of a crackpot.



I'd also like to point out to Janus that the Hebrews had not thoroughly adopted Monotheism by the time of Moses


Yes, but they were under no Monotheistic restrictions until Moses. The Covenant with Abraham was that Abraham and his family would hold God above all other gods. It was not until Moses that the Lord said "You shall not have any other gods before me." Meaning that the Israelites kept being punished for refusing to obey this commandments. Also keep in mind that the Hebrews weren't all "one" people at the time of the Exodus. They were an amalgamation of many different semitic peoples who traced their descent through Abraham. Thus they each had different cultures that were slowly uniting into a Israelite identity.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 10:07
Originally posted by JanusRook


There were never any Jews in Egypt. The old testament is a story, it's not actually true and the whole Moses, Ramases, leading the people out of Egypt thing just mythology.


Well actually IIRC there is an inscription in an egyptian tomb of the period that lists under known neighboring nations a "wandering people"  that coincides with the Exodus of the Bible. A few archaeologists have concluded that these people may be the Hebrews under Moses.
 
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