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Effectiveness of steppe battle tactics

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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Effectiveness of steppe battle tactics
    Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 09:19
The steppe nomad had for centuries struck up fear among the sedentary civilizations as being an aggressive, invincible, and ruthless warrior, but analysing their battle tactics, there seems to be numerous weaknesses that I'm surprised that the settled nations hadn't managed to exploit.
 
First and foremost, steppe battle tactics is dominated by horse-archery. The effectiveness of the bow was highly limited in ancient warfare as arrows could be blocked by most shields and armour. Most of the archers in ancient armies served more as a deterrent to enemy advancement and psychological harrassment rather than to "make the kill".
 
Calvary also had its limits. As long as the heavy infantry of the sedentary nations formed in a dense enough formation with a wall of shields and spikes, no horses would be able to charge them.
 
Logically speaking, as long as the army of a settled nation formed up their infantry in close order "testudo" formation with a wall of spikes, they should be immune to the attack of steppe archers. Sooner or later, the amunition of the steppe armies should run out and they would have no option left but to retreat, that is when the sedentary army could send their calvary to persue them.
 
Reality paints a rather different picture. Encounters with steppe nomads often proved disastrous to many sedentary armies and many times an army composed exclusively of steppe archers had managed to completely slaughter combined infantry and calvary of the settle nations' armies.
 
How did they do it?
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 10:39
BTW Nomads lost many battles against these 'settled Nations".
 
 
The settles nations did not have any idea about the fighting skills of the Nomad Hordes so they could not prepare accordingly. Apart from that Nomads were crueler and much stronger as compared to the warriors they faced when they attacked settled nation's armies.
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  Quote IDonT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 16:01

For one thing, the Steppe armies are mostly composed of cavalry.  That means they have superior mobility than the typical infantry based armies of settled nations (Rome, China, Persia).  This mobility gives them the option to pick their battles.  They can draw their enemies away into the vast steppes and ambushed them when they are severely weakened by attrition.   

Stepped armies were the first disciples of maneuver warfare.  Manuever warfare advocates attempting to defeat an adversary by incapacitating their decision making abilitites through shock and disruption brought about by movement.  A clear example of this was the 1st Rome-Parthian wars.  Carrhae and Mark Anthony's subsequent disastrous counter attack. (It should be noted that Mark Anthony lost more than half of his army with out ever fighting a set piece battle against the Parthians.)
 
The Qin and Han Chinese also suffered from them.  Early Han emperor deal with them through bribing and marriage to a Han princess.  The Han were only successful under Emperor Wu, by adopting stepped tactics themselves.  Emperor Wu spent years procuring Ferghana horses and building a professional army that could finally defeat the Huns confederacy. 
 
As the middle ages came, the stirrup and dicipline gave the Stepped Armies even greater lethality in the form of the Mongols. 
 
 
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  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 08:05
Here are my 2 cents.
 
Originally posted by calvo

First and foremost, steppe battle tactics is dominated by horse-archery.
 
But steppe warriors also attacked with a cold steel when necessary.
 
Originally posted by calvo

 The effectiveness of the bow was highly limited in ancient warfare as arrows could be blocked by most shields and armour. Most of the archers in ancient armies served more as a deterrent to enemy advancement and psychological harrassment rather than to "make the kill".
 
The effectiveness of every missile weapon was highly limited until 20 th c.
 
Originally posted by calvo

Calvary also had its limits. As long as the heavy infantry of the sedentary nations formed in a dense enough formation with a wall of shields and spikes, no horses would be able to charge them.
 
First of all, it is not true that horses were not able to charge dense formations of infantry. Second of all, in reality you didn't need to charge dense formation of infantry to win.
 
Originally posted by calvo

Logically speaking, as long as the army of a settled nation formed up their infantry in close order "testudo" formation with a wall of spikes, they should be immune to the attack of steppe archers. Sooner or later, the amunition of the steppe armies should run out and they would have no option left but to retreat, that is when the sedentary army could send their calvary to persue them.
 
Remember that among the most favourite steppe tactic was a fake retreat.
 
Originally posted by calvo

Reality paints a rather different picture. Encounters with steppe nomads often proved disastrous to many sedentary armies and many times an army composed exclusively of steppe archers had managed to completely slaughter combined infantry and calvary of the settle nations' armies.
 
How did they do it?
 
An army composed only of cavalry had 1 huge advantage over every other army. It was its mobility. Thanks to its mobility, steppe warriors could surprise and could attack enemy who wasn't ready to fight. Thanks to this mobility, steppe warriors could avoid a battle when they wanted. Thanks to this mobility steppe warriors were able to exploit every mistake of enemy on the battlefield. Thanks to this mobility steppe warriors could impunity destroy enemy human potential (to kill civilians, to burn villages etc.).
Another advantage was a numerical superiority. Sedentary nations usually didn't have as numerous armies as steppe nations, because only small per cent (at most 1-2%) of a sedentary nation were soldiers. This per cent among steppe nations was much bigger - at least 10% (often more than 10%).
Thanks to its mobility, numerical superiority and discipline, steppe warriors could encircle enemy, cut enemy supply lines and starve enemies without any frontal attack.


Edited by ataman - 03-Dec-2007 at 05:42
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2007 at 22:10
about the last point, i think we can say that Steppe popualtions were generally much much smaller than urban civilizations, but on the other hand, as you said, the soldier class of urban empries can be small, while virtually every able-bodied man (and someitmes women) in Steppe cultures is a trained warrior.
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  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 03:02
"Is?" As in "currently?" Or "was?"
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  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 05:35
Originally posted by Temujin

about the last point, i think we can say that Steppe popualtions were generally much much smaller than urban civilizations, but on the other hand, as you said, the soldier class of urban empries can be small, while virtually every able-bodied man (and someitmes women) in Steppe cultures is a trained warrior.
 
I agree.
The example might be Crimean Khanate and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Population of PLC in 17th c. varied between 8-11 mln, while the population of Crimean Khanate was about 0,5 mln. But CK was able to send to a war even 100.000 warriors, while the biggest army of PLC in 17th was only a little more numerous.


Edited by ataman - 03-Dec-2007 at 05:36
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 20:53

Would you call the Cossacks a steppe people as regards to warcraft?

Or would they rather be an intermediate between a Steppe people and a Sedentary people? They certainly had more than just light calvary. The Zaporozhians were known to have had an infantry, artillery, and even a navy.

 

Would you say that Napoleons defeat at the hands of the Don Cossacks was history last example of a horde of mobile steppe horsemen employing skirmishing techniques defeating an amassed formation of heavy infantry?

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  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2007 at 21:17
Originally posted by calvo

Would you call the Cossacks a steppe people as regards to warcraft?

 
It depends which ones. As far as Zaporozhians are concerned, their art of war wasn't "steppe one". Only small per cent of their army was composed of cavalry. The bulk of their army was infantry, which was very good one, but... But it wasn't cavalry. Zaporozhians usually fought from behind the tabor. It was was completly different manner of fighting from this one which we were talking about earlier.
 

Originally posted by calvo

Would you say that Napoleons defeat at the hands of the Don Cossacks was history last example of a horde of mobile steppe horsemen employing skirmishing techniques defeating an amassed formation of heavy infantry?

 
I don't know if it was the last example, but IMHO it is a good example Smile.


Edited by ataman - 03-Dec-2007 at 21:20
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 04:38
Originally posted by ataman

Zaporozhians usually fought from behind the tabor. It was was completly different manner of fighting from this one which we were talking about earlier.
 
 
Well, in fact fighting behind the tabor is a common tactics in the Steppe warfare. For example figthing behind the tabor is described in "the secret history of Mongols." But it's true in fact Zaporozhian infantry was much better than their cavalry.
 
Polish cavalry was much superior. Zaporozhians were famous priamarily as infantry men and by the naval raids against Turks in Black Sea (AKA viking style wild attacks on Turkish villages).
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 04:40
Originally posted by calvo

Would you call the Cossacks a steppe people as regards to warcraft?

 
Russian Cossacks' warfare is definetely exclusively a "steppe one." Although it of course has been changing through ages.
 
The first Cossacks were Tatars after all. And the word Cossack itself is Turkic with the same meaning as Kazakh i.e. "free man."
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  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 06:46
Originally posted by Sarmat12

 
For example figthing behind the tabor is described in "the secret history of Mongols."
 
It looks I have omitted this information. Can you tell me in which part of "The secret history of Mongols" is there a description of fighting from behind of the tabor?
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  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 09:24

Both the russian and hungarian forces fought in wagon fortesses(too)  against the mongols, but I've never heard or red that the mongols ever had used it. (maybe just against Yermak)

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2007 at 21:19
yeah but we can't really compare apples and oranges here. Zaporozhian cavalry were basically mounted light infantry. Polish cavalry was either heavy armoured shock cavalry or lightly armoured shock cavalry. in direct comparison the Poles will always win, but that doesn't mean Zaporozhians had bad cavalry. if we put a MBT against an APC that doesn't mean the APC is worthless just because it gets blown up. both are made for different tasks.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 02:03
Originally posted by ataman

It looks I have omitted this information. Can you tell me in which part of "The secret history of Mongols" is there a description of fighting from behind of the tabor?
 
Well, it was after the battle at Koyten mountain when Temujin  and Wang-khan defeated Jamuqa and his allies. Then Temujin chases Taijuds. Taijiud's arrow wounds Temujin in the neck. At night Dhzelme secretely gets into Taijiuds camp through carts (with which Taijiuds sourrounded their camp to protect it) and steals some milk for the wounded Temujin.
 
Mongols called this tabor-fortress guliam or gulian I forgot the exact word.
 
But, in any case, I think it's pretty natural that Nomades used tabor as a protection. After all, what else can you use to protect a camp in the steppe?
 
If they had enough time to prepare for the attack of the superios enemy and couldn't flee, they usually made a circle of connected carts around the camp and fought from this "wooden walls" with the enemy.


Edited by Sarmat12 - 05-Dec-2007 at 02:37
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 02:03
Originally posted by Tar Szernd

Both the russian and hungarian forces fought in wagon fortesses(too)  against the mongols, but I've never heard or red that the mongols ever had used it. (maybe just against Yermak)

 
Ermak never fought with Mongols, he fought with Tatars.
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  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 08:41
Originally posted by Sarmat12

 
Well, it was after the battle at Koyten mountain when Temujin  and Wang-khan defeated Jamuqa and his allies. Then Temujin chases Taijuds. Taijiud's arrow wounds Temujin in the neck. At night Dhzelme secretely gets into Taijiuds camp through carts (with which Taijiuds sourrounded their camp to protect it) and steals some milk for the wounded Temujin.
 
I've found it. But my version of the book (the book is translated into Polish) says aboout "warowny" and "oszańcowany" obz (it might be translated as "fortified camp"). There is also information about wagons in this fortified camp, but there is nothing about wagons/carts which Taijiuds sourrounded their camp to protect it
Sarmat12, which version of the "Secret history..." do you use? English one?
 
 
Originally posted by Sarmat12

 
Mongols called this tabor-fortress guliam or gulian I forgot the exact word.
 
But, in any case, I think it's pretty natural that Nomades used tabor as a protection. After all, what else can you use to protect a camp in the steppe?
 
If they had enough time to prepare for the attack of the superios enemy and couldn't flee, they usually made a circle of connected carts around the camp and fought from this "wooden walls" with the enemy.
 
Well, it is logic. When nomades used wagons they could use them to a defence. But how many steppe nations went to a war with wagons? I have never heard about the Tartars who took tabor for any raid against Poland.


Edited by ataman - 05-Dec-2007 at 08:43
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 03:31
I read a Russian version of "The secret history" translated by Kozin and also an English adaptation by Paul Khan.
 
In fact, I didn't mean to say that fighting behind the tabor occupied a significant place in the Steppe warfare. I just wanted to note that it existed there.
 
However, undoubtly the most significant feature of the steppe warfare was mobility, so fighting behind the tabor was mostly the last available resource when the nomades where not able to flee from the superior enemy.
 
In fact, I would say that fighting behind the tabor was the sign of weakness in the steppe warfare.
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  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 05:00
Some fascinating stuff guys.  I guess the first example that comes to my mind of a sedentary army beating a steppe army is Alexander beating the scythians in, the battle of the jaxartes in 329 b.c.  It was not a large battle but, his victory over them is a great example for explaining many of the issues being discussed. 
 
I agree some of the major factors to consider are:
 
- steppe mobility with majority or all cavalry
 
- warrior spirit retained by steppe cultures sometimes more so than sedentary civilizations
 
- percentage of steppe civilizations people bearing arms allowing a small population to fight a much larger one
 
Also studying history one sees that often the steppe cultures would fight most of their battles in terrain favorable to their tactics;  plains that favor cavalry. 
 
To respond to calvo's question:
 
Usually the steppe cavalry was of superior quality compared to the sedentary cavalry.  Also, infantry is at an enormous disadvantage on the open plains when facing cavalry.  Often the steppe forces would be better trained due to their way of life.  Normally, the sedentary forces would not know how to fight in a combined arms fashion.  (using cavalry and infantry effectively, co-ordination between the two)  When the sedentary forces leaders were able to effectively integrate their infantry and cavalry their chances of victory went up by a very large amount.  Often times sedentary forces would use the same tactics one would use in mountains or hilly terrain, not adapting their tactics to fit the terrain they were fighting on.  On the steppes cavalry ruled unless "caught" by the infantry. 
 
I'm sure there are other examples, but Alexander's battle against the scythians is a perfect example of how to beat steppe nomads. 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2007 at 02:15
There are no reliable source about the battle you mentioned, Justinian. It's very unlikely that Alexander actually inflicted such a serious defeat on Skythians. As far as I know, the sources are just talking that Alexander repelled the Skythian back or smth. It seems that it was just a minor clash. And even after that "victory", Alexander retreated back through Yaksart river.
 
Generally speaking, no sedentary army could stand against Nomades without a strong cavalry.
 
Usually Steppe warriors were not stupid enough to perform front attacks of closed defensive infantry formations.
 
There are, however, few examples when a sedentary army mostly consisted of infantrymen could be victorious.
 
I'm talking about the war of Romans with Yazyg trime of Sarmatians in the second century. The decisive battle happened in winter and somehow Romans forced Yazyg to fight on the ice of Danube. They were able to engage them in the close hand to hand combat, even some kind of wrestling on the ice. And, eventually, better trained (for these kind of conditions) Roman soldiers won. However, that was an extremely hard war for Romans and they suffered very heavy casualties.
 
Sarmatians BTW were famous for heavy cavalry attack tactics. The warriors and the horses were covered with armour. A heavy spear was tied to the neck of the horse, which made a Sarmat warrior a kind of mini ram or a kind of "antique tank."
 
Sometimes those Sarmatian cavalrymen where even able to break through Roman testudo.
 
First Tukiut (Turk) Kaganate warriors also uses similar kind of heavy cavalry attacks BTW.
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