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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: Loan words Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 15:37 |
I think Persian languages is one of the languages which has the most number of loan words from various languages!
Kabus - MEANING: Incubus ORIGIN: Incubare (Latin)
Kado - MEANING: Present ORIGIN: Cadeau (French)
Ketab - MEANING: Book ORIGIN: Ketab (Arabic)
Kas - MEANING: Pig ORIGIN: Kas (Sogdian)
Kakaz - MEANING: Paper ORIGIN: Kok-ci (Chinese)
Kafur - MEANING: Camphor ORIGIN: Kappura (Sanskrit)
Kak - MEANING: Kind of bread ORIGIN: Kake (Coptic)
Kakol - MEANING: Topknot, Forelock ORIGIN: Kakol (Mongolian)
Kanun - MEANING: Rule, Focus ORIGIN: Kanon (Greek)
Kaleska - MEANING: Coach ORIGIN: Kaleskay (Russian)
Kaka - MEANING: Tutor ORIGIN: Kaka (Chagatai)
Kal - MEANING: Unripe ORIGIN: Kalak (Hyrcanian)
Kamonvels - MEANING: Having common interests ORIGIN: Commonwealth (English)
Kabab - MEANING: Roast ORIGIN: Kababu (Babylonian)
Kobra - MEANING: Cobra ORIGIN: Cobra de Capello(Portugese)
Kebrit - MEANING: Match ORIGIN: Kupritu (Akkadian)
Katan - MEANING: Linen ORIGIN: Kutina (Syriac)
Ketri - MEANING: Kettle ORIGIN: Katli (Urdu)
Kotak - MEANING: Beating, Cudgel ORIGIN: Kutak (Turkish)
Kadu - MEANING: Squash ORIGIN: Qedu (Kurdish)
Karbas - MEANING: Canvas ORIGIN: Karpas (Hindi)
Korsi - MEANING: Chair ORIGIN: Koratsu (Japanese)
Karafs - MEANING: Celery ORIGIN: Karpas (Hebrew)
Korkom - MEANING: Saffron ORIGIN: Kurkema (Aramaean)
Karubi - MEANING: Cherub ORIGIN: Charuba (Assyrian)
Kasma - MEANING: Tress ORIGIN: Kasa (Lithuanian)
Koshad - MEANING: Wide ORIGIN: Gojad (Transoxanian)
Kalaq - MEANING: Crow ORIGIN: Guraq (Baluchi)
Kelan - MEANING: Collar ORIGIN: Kolan (Caspian)
Kauchuk - MEANING: Caoutchouc ORIGIN : Kauchuk (Quechua)
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fastspawn
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 21:34 |
Korsi - MEANING: Chair ORIGIN: Koratsu (Japanese) |
I seriously doubt that that is a borrowed loaned word. Just because it sounds the same doesn't mean it is a loaned word.
E,g, Pa and Pater might sound the same but aren't loaned words (Ma being father in CHinese , Pater being in German)
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fastspawn
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 21:39 |
Kakaz - MEANING: Paper ORIGIN: Kok-ci (Chinese)
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Let's see Chinese invented paper, and you guys named it? Doesn't make much sense does it?
Anyway chinese for paper is not Kok-ci, its just Zi.
Kamonvels - MEANING: Having common interests ORIGIN: Commonwealth (English)
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COmmonwealth comes from commonweal.
which can be split into common and weal
weal means prosperity or fortune.
This word makes sense as a germanic word (the common prosperity of a group).
In persian is there a word Kamon meaning common and word vels meaning weal?
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Cywr
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 21:45 |
I think English wins it. It must have words from hundreds of languages
thrown in there, but then, unlike some cultures, they havn't been
paranoid about foreign words entering their language, plus thanks to
their ex-hobby of sailing around and pinching people's countries, they
had plenty of exposure to other languages.
Let's see Chinese invented paper, and you guys named it? |
Other way around, he is saying that Persian has loads of words from
other languages, hence 'loan words', so the Persian word for paper came
from Chinese. Not that i know if thats correct or not.
Curse the forum code for making it imppossible to copy and paste
without picking up the bold/italic/etc. stuff, this really needs to be
fixed.
Edit: It seems to fix itself, hmm, this is very confusing.
Edited by Cywr
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Arrrgh!!"
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Colchis
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 22:47 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I think Persian languages is one of the languages which has the most number of loan words from various languages! |
Don't worry Cyrus, Turkish probably has more loan words from Persian than Persian does from Turkish.
Looks like the Turks got "kabus" directly from Persian, even the
spelling is unchanged. As for other loan words let me say that when my
friend from Afghanistan speaks Farsi I pretty much pick up at least
about 5 words in only a few sentences.
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Roughneck
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:06 |
Gotta be English with the most loan words. We have French, Latin, German, Norman, Spanish, American Indian, Old English (although would this count as borrowed?), you can probably start including Japanese words in there...
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:14 |
Hey Cyrus:
I started on this new job a month ago. Im back in sales and marketing, but I would like to ask you for a special favor.
My boss is an iranian friend I met some years ago.
Despites the fact he speaks fluenty spanish like a regular mexican, he also speaks English, Portuguese and Japanese.
I would like to learn some basic farsi.
I hope you can enlightme.
Regards
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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Cywr
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:16 |
Originally posted by Roughneck
Gotta be English with the most loan words. We
have French, Latin, German, Norman, Spanish, American Indian, Old
English (although would this count as borrowed?), you can probably
start including Japanese words in there... |
....Dutch, Welsh, Gaelic (Scots), Polish, Mongolian, Turkish, Amoy, Tamil, Hindi, Sanskrit, Malay, Arabic, Russian......
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Arrrgh!!"
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Colchis
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:47 |
Originally posted by Roughneck
Gotta be English with the most loan words. |
Considering that the kings of England themselves didn't speak English
for a good period of time, it's hardly surprising isn't it. That's
probably also the reason that English has one of the largest
vocabularies. A lot of the words in English have two versions to start
with: one of Germanic and one of Romance (Latin) origins thus doubling
the number.
Edited by Colchis
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babyblue
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 01:50 |
Originally posted by fastspawn
[quote]
Anyway chinese for paper is not Kok-ci, its just Zi.
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"zi" is the modern day pronounciation in Mandarin...and if it's a loan word...then i'd say it was loaned a long long time ago...even if mandarin existed back in those days...would it be the same mandarin as the one we know of today?
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fastspawn
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 04:26 |
Originally posted by babyblue
Originally posted by fastspawn
[quote]
Anyway chinese for paper is not Kok-ci, its just Zi.
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"zi" is the modern day pronounciation
in Mandarin...and if it's a loan word...then i'd say it was loaned a
long long time ago...even if mandarin existed back in those
days...would it be the same mandarin as the one we know of today? |
That is an interesting question. We will never know whether this is
true, because we have no audio recording of how Chinese in the Hand
Dynasty spoke.
We know that the script was unified during the Qin Dynasty, so the word
"ZI" remains the same (with the evolution of the character of course,
but it remains essentially the same). But about what it sounds like i
wouldn't know.
I would like to post a link about the origins and etymology of Chinese Language.
Chinese Language
Now the "true ethnicity" of the Chinese Emperors are under debate.
I have come across sites which state that the Hakka are the true ethnicity, being the ethnicity of Qin and the Han Emperors.
Hakka
Whether this is propoganda, or this is true i will not know because i
cannot and do not have the resources to analyse and evaluate their
argument.
Anyway, if Hakka is really the language spoken in the courts then, the
word is still Zi (I don't know Hakka, but my mom told me.) Whether the
sound ZI has changed over the years and the forced migrations of the
hakka people i do not know.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 05:07 |
Ketri - MEANING: Kettle ORIGIN: Katli (Urdu) |
That is surely not a loan-word, since it has Indo-European roots. In Old Norse for example, it's kettil, thus I think that word have been in Persian for a long time.
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Zagros
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 05:56 |
Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer
Hey Cyrus:
I started on this new job a month ago. Im back in sales and marketing, but I would like to ask you for a special favor.
My boss is an iranian friend I met some years ago.
Despites the fact he speaks fluenty spanish like a regular mexican, he also speaks English, Portuguese and Japanese.
I would like to learn some basic farsi.
I hope you can enlightme.
Regards
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Ty here, you can learn some basics, www.iranianlanguages.com
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 08:04 |
Fastspawn, those are not my guesses but I have collected them from the most reliable Persian dictionary which has been written by a group scientists and philologists in 50 years, about Korsi, Please read here!
Colchis, not only Turkish has many loan words from Persian but also almost all other major languages! There are at least one hundred Persian words in Quran, some Jewish months such as Sivan and Teves are Persian, Shizi (Lion Dance) which is the most important Chinese fetvial, is a Persian word, Some greek mythical creatures such as Martikhoras (Manticore) and Slavic mythical creatures such as Simargl and Khors have Persian names, Hindi itself is a Persian word, ...
Jalisco Lancer, I am ready to teach you Persian language!
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Yiannis
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 08:36 |
Originally posted by Cywr
Originally posted by Roughneck
Gotta be English with the most loan words. We have French, Latin, German, Norman, Spanish, American Indian, Old English (although would this count as borrowed?), you can probably start including Japanese words in there... |
....Dutch, Welsh, Gaelic (Scots), Polish, Mongolian, Turkish, Amoy, Tamil, Hindi, Sanskrit, Malay, Arabic, Russian......
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Hey, where's Greek on that list?
J/K
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Cywr
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 09:12 |
Bah, we all know Telephone is a Basque word
But yeah, kind of dumb to neglect that one, considering that loads of
fancy gadgets invented seem to have Greek names, then theres Politico
speak that is loaded with Greek, from Ethnic Demographics to
Democracy itself........
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Arrrgh!!"
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Zagros
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 10:56 |
Persian too.
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fastspawn
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 11:29 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Fastspawn, those are not my guesses but I
have collected them from the most reliable Persian dictionary which has
been written by a group scientists and philologists in 50 years, about
Korsi, Please read here!
Colchis, not only Turkish has many loan words from Persian but also almost all other major languages!
There are at least one hundred Persian words in Quran, some Jewish
months such as Sivan and Teves are Persian, Shizi (Lion Dance) which is
the most important Chinese fetvial, is a Persian word, Some greek
mythical creatures such as Martikhoras (Manticore) and Slavic mythical
creatures such as Simargl and Khors have Persian names, Hindi itself is
a Persian word, ...
Jalisco Lancer, I am ready to teach you Persian language! |
Maybe Koratsu and Korsi are related, but we will not know whom
originated the word. But most definately Chinese did not loan a
word for paper (that would be really absurd wouldn't it?), and the
English didn't take the word Commonwealth from Kamonvels.
I would agree with Shi ZI, because the lion is not a native creature of
China, so when they imported it via the silk road, they would use the
literal translation. What is the persian word for lion anyway? is it
like sanskrit? Singa?
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Zagros
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Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 06:17 |
It's shir or arslan. BTW, no one said, anywhere in this thread, that the Chinese used a loan word for paper.
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fastspawn
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Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 09:20 |
Originally posted by Zagros Purya
It's shir or arslan. BTW, no one said,
anywhere in this thread, that the Chinese used a loan word for
paper. |
Originally posted by cyrus shahmiri
Kakaz - MEANING: Paper ORIGIN: Kok-ci (Chinese)
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