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"Axis of Evil" is Based on Reality
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Scytho-Sarmatian View Drop Down
Earl
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Posts: 290 		  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Axis of Evil" is Based on Reality
    Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 05:45
The same goes for Hugoestr and Spartakus -- friggin' morons who want to drag everybody down to their level.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 10:17
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

The same goes for Hugoestr and Spartakus -- friggin' morons who want to drag everybody down to their level.


Hey! What is this about! After reading over Spartakus and Komnenos, and my posts, I did not see any kind of abusive language.

I ask that you recant what you said in the quoted post and give an apology.

I heard that when people debate, and on of the parties start insulting the other, is because the insulting party doesn't know what to say anymore. If you don't have anything else to say, well just say so. There is no need to throw insults around.

Every one has lost a debate. It happens to all of us.



Edited by hugoestr
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Jalisco Lancer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2112 		  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 11:29
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

Komnenos-


I would call you a scumbag, but that would be doing a disservice to bags full of scum.




Dude, behave and keep the proper manners.
There's a Code of Conduct and you can not insult to other forumers at Will.
If you have an issue with a forumer you can express your complaint, but it is not acceptable to display such badmouth vocabulary.

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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 13:16
   
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

Komnenos-


I would call you a scumbag, but that would be doing a disservice to bags full of scum.



I have been at work all day, so I missed SS's original and now censored post. "Scumbag", was that the best he could do, or was there more? In any case, I wasn't really upset by that, I've been called worse by my ex-wife.
But what about arguments, did SS have any arguments? That would really interest me.
It isn't very often that you find a disciple of the Bush-Haliburton regime here in the "old" Europe, so a civilised discussion about current American foreign policy with one of their supporters would have a certain novelty value.

But back to the "Axis of Evil", if I remember the charming US foreign secretary's initial list correctly, there was North-Korea, Iran, Myanmar, Zimbabwe,Cuba and...on the hitlist. Which country did I leave out and which country did she leave out? And far more important why did she leave it out?
Answers on a postcard!



Edited by Komnenos
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 13:36
Originally posted by Spartakus

Axis of evil?Yes it does exist.USA-NATO-UN-Israel.


I love Greece and Greek culture but I have to disagree with this statement.
The U.N. never supported this war but Saddam had to be dealt with- ask the Kurds. Now we need to pull out as soon as possible. I oppose any attack on Iran though and I agree with pat Bucanan about Iraq.

Look at who we are dealing with on this web site- I have to work on an assignment otherwise I would dig up more facts.
Go on the Michael Savage web site and click on Know your enemy if you dare and see a real definition of evil. I warn you it is very graphic and bloody. To be honest, I could not watch it. I really feel for the families of these victims.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/





Edited by eaglecap
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 23:59

If I was in charge of a Middle Eastern country I would lock and and/or murder all the fundies, just like Saddam did, I would just leave out the ethnic stuff.  He was an unwuitting aide to US intrests and no worse than previous governments weve suppotred for our own ends.  By his removal the place is a open season for terrorists who were not there...HUGE strategic blunder.

democratize the middle east....idealism, US power should not be wasted on idealism at the cost of lives
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 00:07
Eaglecap,

After reading your beer thread, I find it imposible to engage in a Mortal Kombat debate with you--the beer bond is already too strong. Instead I will give you pointers on how you can improve your position.

Even though your sources will convince conservatives, it will have little effect on leftists because the source you give is so biased. You would feel the same way if I gave as a reference articles on The Nation or Mother Jones, two U.S. leftist magazines.

To strengthen your argument with your oponents, I encourage you to find leftist sources that support your claims. It may be easier than you think.

Good luck on your assignment.
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Genghis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 00:47

Originally posted by Tobodai

democratize the middle east....idealism, US power should not be wasted on idealism at the cost of lives

You do have to see that it worked in Japan and in some other countries.  I think that if the populace of a country is educated enough, some form of representative government (not necessarily American-style democracy) can be implemented if it is nurtured.
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 01:41
it worked in Japan and Germany  yet peopel too often concentrate on these rare sucesses in American natiopn building policies, and they choose to ignore all the failures, Cuba, the southern reconstruction, the Balkans, Liberia (maybe sorta) etfc
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 07:41
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by Spartakus

Axis of evil?Yes it does exist.USA-NATO-UN-Israel.


I love Greece and Greek culture but I have to disagree with this statement.
The U.N. never supported this war but Saddam had to be dealt with- ask the Kurds. Now we need to pull out as soon as possible. I oppose any attack on Iran though and I agree with pat Bucanan about Iraq.

Look at who we are dealing with on this web site- I have to work on an assignment otherwise I would dig up more facts.
Go on the Michael Savage web site and click on Know your enemy if you dare and see a real definition of evil. I warn you it is very graphic and bloody. To be honest, I could not watch it. I really feel for the families of these victims.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/



Yes,UN never supported the war in Irak but it did nothing to stop it.This stance helped only the US and no one else.Of course Saddam had be dealt with.But not with an open war. 
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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hugoestr View Drop Down
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 13:43
Originally posted by Tobodai

it worked in Japan and Germany yet peopel too often concentrate on these rare sucesses in American natiopn building policies, and they choose to ignore all the failures, Cuba, the southern reconstruction, the Balkans, Liberia (maybe sorta) etfc


The reason why it worked in Japan and Germany is that these countries had a democratic culture which was hijacked by a dictatorship. The other countries had only had an authoritarian past.

These countries would also be examples of how lending money to poor countries helps them to become world economic powers. The rest of the countries where this has failed show how this is not true.
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Genghis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 19:08

Originally posted by hugoestr

Originally posted by Tobodai

it worked in Japan and Germany yet peopel too often concentrate on these rare sucesses in American natiopn building policies, and they choose to ignore all the failures, Cuba, the southern reconstruction, the Balkans, Liberia (maybe sorta) etfc


The reason why it worked in Japan and Germany is that these countries had a democratic culture which was hijacked by a dictatorship. The other countries had only had an authoritarian past.

These countries would also be examples of how lending money to poor countries helps them to become world economic powers. The rest of the countries where this has failed show how this is not true.

Japan had little if any democratic culture, they were very stratified and militaristic.  I believe the main criteria for democracy is a well educated and not abject people.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 11:05
Genghis,

That is what I thought too, but when I researched the topic, I discovered that there was a movement towards democracy starting in the 19th century. The source said that democracy was well under way when militarism took over.

That said, if you want to provide me more evidence on the topic, I will look it it over. It could be that my source was wrong.

And your criteria for democracy plays into my idea of cultural heritage: abject people abound in authoritarian societies.
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Genghis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 12:54

Originally posted by hugoestr

Genghis,

That is what I thought too, but when I researched the topic, I discovered that there was a movement towards democracy starting in the 19th century. The source said that democracy was well under way when militarism took over.

That said, if you want to provide me more evidence on the topic, I will look it it over. It could be that my source was wrong.

And your criteria for democracy plays into my idea of cultural heritage: abject people abound in authoritarian societies.

That Japan did have in the 19th century, but for a quarter millenia before that they lived under the authoritarian and class-bound Tokugawa shogunate.

To me it seemed kind of like the democratic period after the fall of the Soviet Union in Russia.  A democracy with an authoritarian culture.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2005 at 23:39
Pretty good point, Genghis, they did have a long authoritarian past. But their recent democratic past made it easier when Americans re-established it after WWII. There were still people alived at the end of WWII in both countries that had lived under a democracy. That makes a huge difference.

Transitioning from a purely authoritarian past into democracy does not work that well if the institutions are there to begin with.

There is the example of the French Revolution. The country had absolute monarchs for a long time. The four estates, some kind of French congress, had not met in a long time.

The revolution comes along, and first the country lives under terror, and then Napoleon becomes emperor a few years after. The French nation eventually became democratic, but the transition was long and painful.

Middle Eastern countries are closer to the position of France in 1789 than to Germany and Japan of 1945.

Once again, I am not an expert in French history and I will thank anyone who corrects me.

I will be looking forward to your insights, Genghis.
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Posts: 292 		  Quote RED GUARD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 18:58
Originally posted by Spartakus

Axis of evil?Yes it does exist.USA-NATO-UN-Israel.


Edited: Axis of Evil= US, Britian, the Coalition, and Isreal.
Quotes by your's turly:

"I came, I saw, and I conquered... but only for the weekend"

"This is my tank, this is my weapon, and this is my pride."

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