Armenians, descendants of Sakson

Sharrukin, isn't it interesting for you that those scholars say there is no relation between "Saxon/Scandinavian" and "Scythian" and these are obviously different words but when Bede, the father of English history, says "Picts were from Scythia", they say by Scythia he means Saxonia or Scandinavia?!!

What is you idea about this one:

http://www.wildyorkshire.co.uk/naturediary/docs/2001/1/30.html

Near the Black Sea there is an area called Ossettia. Today�s 700,000 North and South Ossettians are herdsmen and horsemen, probably descended from the Scythian warrior nomads of ancient Greek times.

Like the first settlers of Yorkshire they use the word �Don� for river and, like the people of Ossett, they chose the fleece as an emblem. A fleece being fashioned into a garment is shown on a Scythian chief�s gold regalia of around 500 B.C. (left).

A fleece also appears at the centre of Ossett's coat of arms, seen here in a carving on the Town Hall (right).

Is there a connection? Some versions of the Greek legend of Jason and the Argonauts tell us that on his long homeward voyage Jason took the Golden Fleece by river journey from the Black Sea to the North Sea � a route well known to the Vikings who are thought to have founded Ossett.

What is you idea about this one: http://www.wildyorkshire.co.uk/naturediary/docs/2001/1/30.html Near the Black Sea there is an area called Ossettia. Today�s 700,000 North and South Ossettians are herdsmen and horsemen, probably descended from the Scythian warrior nomads of ancient Greek times. Like the first settlers of Yorkshire they use the word �Don� for river and, like the people of Ossett, they chose the fleece as an emblem. A fleece being fashioned into a garment is shown on a Scythian chief�s gold regalia of around 500 B.C. (left). A fleece also appears at the centre of Ossett's coat of arms, seen here in a carving on the Town Hall (right). Is there a connection? Some versions of the Greek legend of Jason and the Argonauts tell us that on his long homeward voyage Jason took the Golden Fleece by river journey from the Black Sea to the North Sea � a route well known to the Vikings who are thought to have founded Ossett.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri What about rivers' name? There are six Don Rivers in the UK, isn't it strange that two different peoples (Saxons and Scythians) call all things similar to each other? May I ask what differences exist between Saxons an Scythians?

We've been through this already :)

The name Don (originally Devona) on rivers in England predates the Saxon invasion with more than 400 years- they carried the names already when the Romans arrived. Iirc they were named after a Celtic divinity.


As for that "kingarthurbanner" article, I'm not gonna bother. It's based on Sharon Turner, an 18th century "historian" full of imagination (same frame as the clames of Atlantean/Israeli ancestry of the Swedes).

Edited by Styrbiorn - 07-Nov-2007 at 19:07

What about rivers' name? There are six Don Rivers in the UK, isn't it strange that two different peoples (Saxons and Scythians) call all things similar to each other?

But of course (and they 3000 years, not 4)! http://www.hlf.org.uk/NHMFWeb/Database/datapage2.html?projectid=560 http://www.pembrokeshirecountyliving.co.uk/latest/arts/display.var.1750587.0.celtic_magic.php

Styrbiorn, those are not Torcs but necklaces, there are 5,000 years old similar necklaces in Iran.

This is essentially a borrowing from one the earliest passages of the Venerable Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People, written about 160 years before.  The the passage in question, Bede has Armorica instead of Armenia as to where the Britons came from. Armorica is modern Brittany, the northwestern corner of France.

Sharrukin, as you read here, scholars say that the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle was a monumental work overseen by MANY people. Bede was just ONE person. More than likely, it was he who made the slip by using the word "Armorica".

The more important thing is that if you read Bede's book then you will see in the same page where he says "Britons who coming over into Britain, as is reported, from Armorica" he is comapring Britain with Armenia:

"Thus the nights are extraordinarily short in summer, and the days in winter, that is, of only six equinoctial hours. Whereas in Armenia, also in Macedonia, Italy, and other countries of the same latitude, the longest day or night extends but to fifteen hours, and the shortest to nine."

Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 08-Nov-2007 at 14:46

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri You didn't answer my question, what are differences between Saxons an Scythians?

Scythians are a horse people with a rich culture of gold making while saxons are footsodliers with much fewer culture. also they had different burial rites.

Yes, indeed he writes that Scythia is North and Northeast of the Black sea.
North of Germania is Scandinavia, to the West is Gaul, South is Rome, Northeast of Germania is populated by Venedi and others people believed to be Slavs. Scythia lies east of the greater Germania region (Goths were living on the east bank of the Vistula, south of the Venedi). From where did you get that Scythia were north of Germania?

This is the map closest to his tellings I have found on the net (concerning Scythia and east Europe that is):

edit: searching the net, I found it weird that no one has produced a map of Pliny's world.

Edited by Styrbiorn - 09-Nov-2007 at 09:58

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri People migrate from place to place, why not migrating tribes of Scythians who lived in Europe? But how can you say Saxon and Scythian are different languages when you can't find even one unsimilar word in these languages?

Because we have no sources whatsoever claiming Scythians doing that! History have to be based on sources, not imagination alone (then you get the pesudo-history of Rudbeck, D�nicken and Menzies).

I can safely say that Saxon and Scythian are different languages, since Saxon is a Germanic language closely related to other Germanic languages, while the Scyths spoke an Iranian tongue. Language is not only vocabulary, it is also grammar, syntax, evolution of sounds etc. Read any single book on Saxon and you'll know it is a near relative to other Germanic languages. And as for word comparison: I clearly showed that the Swedish and old Norse versions of those words are much much closer to Saxon than any Iranian version.

Scythia was not really so large, this is map of Scythian tribes migrations 7th BC - 4th AD: (yellow colors show Scythain lands) You know that orleans (Aureliani) in France was once the capital of a Scythian kingdom.

No, Cyrus my friend, that is not a map of Scythian migrations. It's a map of Alan (Aryans/Iranian) and Vandal (Germans) migrations.

Cyrus,I believe you must be confused with your English history... You have said that the Anglo-Saxon chronicle (a spurious source, but we'll humor it for the moment) lists the Picts as being from Scythia... this in no way has anything to do with Anglo-Saxons being Scythians, as Picts were not Angles or Saxons.
On the same note, to call the Irish Scythians also has nothing to do with the matter... Gaels are a (1) Celtic people, and (2) not Anglo-Saxons.

Reading bad books will leave a fellow with bad ideas. Ancient chronicles are not only usually pure myth (or at least, pure historical myth, and a few contemporary observations), but also usually propaganda. Even today, histories can be written with quite a slant. Be more discerning in your research, my friend, and you won't wind up in these patronizing, uphill arguments.
Sincerely (and patronizingly),
BJC

PS- No, Alans were not Scythians. I think the dates were fairly different.

PPS- A little note; yes, it's from wikipedia, but it's a good summary of the historical inaccuracy surrounding the ethnicity/region

"Since ancient times non-Scyths have used the name "Scythian" more broadly to refer to various peoples seen as similar or identical to the Scythians, or who lived anywhere in a vast area covering including present-day Ukraine, Russia and Central Asia � known until medieval times as Scythia."

See the problem this presents? Today we treat the idea of Scythians as being one group of nomadic horsemen who dominated the Pontic Steppe during the Greco-Early Roman period, and who were then absorbed by the Sarmatians around the 4th century AD. These medieval historians of yours are calling anyone not Western-European "Scythian." Obviously, some sort of confusion will naturally arise. But do good, contemporary research; don't cite dead English racists, and histories almost a thousand years old. They're extremely unreliable. Cheers.


Edited by Brian J Checco - 09-Nov-2007 at 16:25