Muslims of Italy

Originally posted by Al Jassas Hello to you all   Every one knows that Muslims ruled Sicily for over 250 years and that Normans did not deport or enslave them. So, where the hell are they, what happened to them. I read about their deportation to Lucera where they had heir own republic but what happened to them?

I know that, but I also know the other side of these facts, that perhaps you are not aware of. Many people escaped persecution converting to Christianity. It has been calculated that, at least, half the non-Christian population of Spain become converted.

I know about the sack and the expulsion but there were muslims left in Sicily after the expulsion which was not against all muslims who were during that time large land owners and merchants. Also, I remember that muslims existed in other cities of soutern Italy especially Calabria, which is in my opinion is the reason why tribalism and Vandettas still exist there because of their Arab heritage, do you think so Leonardo?

Vendettas predate the Muslim settlements in Italy. I read of one account where an aristocrat was killed by his enemy. The client-patron system prevailed in much of Italy in the Medieval era just as it did during Roman times. The dead aristocrat had a client who was a midget.

The midget, no with no master and no means of supporting himself, struck back at the enemy aristocrat during a procession one day in full public view. The midget was immediately killed. This serves as an early example of vendetta mentality in Italy, and pre-dates Muslim settlement.

Sorry I do not have a source or specific dates and names on me, it's late and I'm remembering off the top of my head.

 

Vendetta's arent "arabic",  and it not was introduced by them as had been already stated by others. Muslims forces actually reached Northern Italy, France and the Balkans. It was the Fatimids of Egypt  who actually held Sicily.  I remember a  native  Christian Sicilian who would conquer North Africa for the Fatimid's as a mamaluk btw. His name was Jawhar as-Siqilli, he was a slave who became a general, who became  a Conqueror, great story surround that man.

Edited by Tyranos - 09-Oct-2007 at 09:49

Hello to you all

Originally posted by xi_tujue I heared teh word mafia comes from Arabic meaning mountain dwellers or something wasn't the mafia 'born' during the muslim occupation of the Island?

vendatta exist in most parts of the world 

Originally posted by Joinville Originally posted by xi_tujue vendatta exist in most parts of the world  Quite. But it would seem it has a particular function when there is little in the form of a centralised power, when it's weak, distant etc., and society is based on extended families interacting.

its also cultural. Vendetta is a crude, straight forward but arguably fair system of justice when there is no other overarching body to administer it. Like you said, when there is no central government with a court or police type body. But culturally in these societies one is obliged to act out an vendetta to preserve his or ones families honor or what it really boils down to - respect. This obligation is very strong and is important to ones honor and I would argue self perception, as well as perception of the individual by others. I also think particularly in the Mediterranean and also in the M/E,  the way you are perceived by others is a very important driver in this equation. Blood money is another way to equalize the initial crime, so it not always about killing or breaking bones.



Edited by Leonidas - 12-Oct-2007 at 15:43

vendetta = blood fued