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andrew View Drop Down
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: True Arabs
    Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 18:03

I noticed many think that whoever comes from the Middle East is Arab. I'm from the Middle East and I do not consider myself an Arab. Iraqis think of themselves as Chaldeans, Syrians consider themselves Assyrians, Lebanese think of themselves as Maronites, and Egyptians consider themselves as Copts. Coincidentally all of these peoples I mentioned are Christian.

Now Arab can mean many things. If you speak Arabic and share its culture, your an Arab. If you are part of the Middle East, your an Arab. However in the sense of ethnicity how many people in the Middle East are Arab? I mean we all look alike going from dark brown skin to light olive oil skin so who are the 'true Arabs?' The best answer I got is that most of the Arabs today are what is today the Arabian peninsula: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates.

People say the term 'Arab' is a modern term for what was then referred to as 'Bedhouins,' which were desert nomads. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Because most I've talked to think the Middle East is all Arab because of the language and what we look like.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote dubai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 21:20

yeah just because u speak arabic and have arabic culture doesn't mean your ethnicity is arabs. The truest of arabs actually are yemenis and hijazis. even many saudi could not be considered true arabs esepcailly in the northern areas because they have mixed with assyrians, iraqis and jordianians over the centuries. places like UAE qatar have mixed with iranians and indians.
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 22:05
Originally posted by dubai

yeah just because u speak arabic and have arabic culture doesn't mean your ethnicity is arabs. The truest of arabs actually are yemenis and hijazis. even many saudi could not be considered true arabs esepcailly in the northern areas because they have mixed with assyrians, iraqis and jordianians over the centuries. places like UAE qatar have mixed with iranians and indians.

 
Weird things is, in the Middle East we practically all look alike so it is very hard to see from looks. Most in the Middle East pick up on each other's accent but in the West we all look the same and have the same culture so unless we tell them otherwise we're all just Arab.
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Posts: 28 		  Quote dubai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 22:52
The reason u guys look the same is because essentially u are all related, i mean arabs and all the other groups of people have always been interconnected, so yeah ethinicity wise u guys are very very similar. To tell u the truth however yemenis, omanis, Uae natives actually look different from iraqis, jordianians, syrians etc... The people of the north have way more mixed blood like from romans,greeks, persians...
 
btw are u iraqi? i am orginally from kuwait living in dubai.
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 23:59
Originally posted by dubai

The reason u guys look the same is because essentially u are all related, i mean arabs and all the other groups of people have always been interconnected, so yeah ethinicity wise u guys are very very similar. To tell u the truth however yemenis, omanis, Uae natives actually look different from iraqis, jordianians, syrians etc... The people of the north have way more mixed blood like from romans,greeks, persians...
 
btw are u iraqi? i am orginally from kuwait living in dubai.
 
No, I am Egyptian from the Nile Delta. Nice to meet you by the way.Smile
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Posts: 28 		  Quote dubai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 01:07
wow nice, do u trace ur ancestory to anceint egyptians?
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     Although I agree with your main point that not all people from the middle east are Arabs, Syrians do not consider themselves Assyrians. They consider themselves Syrians. And only maybe 30% of Lebanese consider themselves Maronites.
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 11:10
 Although I agree with your main point that not all people from the middle east are Arabs, Syrians do not consider themselves Assyrians. They consider themselves Syrians. And only maybe 30% of Lebanese consider themselves Maronites.
 
Well, the term Maronite is used only with the Christian population and considering Lebanon's population is about 30% that's probably the reason. Most people of the Middle East are not Arabs but because of being Muslim they make themselves Arabs. The term Copt was so closely tied to being a Christian that whoever converted to Islam was not longer a Copt but an Arab. That's why we all look alike try to tell the difference between a Copt, Maronite, and Arab and you won't find many. Muslims and Christians all look alike there really is no distinction.
 
wow nice, do u trace ur ancestory to anceint egyptians?
 
I most likely do have a lot of ancient Egyptian blood in me but being from the Delta I'm guessing I'm a mix of many other things to. How's it in Dubai, I heard it is a beautiful country I think of it as the Gem of the Middle East.
 
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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 06:16
Originally posted by andrew

I noticed many think that whoever comes from the Middle East is Arab. I'm from the Middle East and I do not consider myself an Arab. Iraqis think of themselves as Chaldeans, Syrians consider themselves Assyrians, Lebanese think of themselves as Maronites, and Egyptians consider themselves as Copts. Coincidentally all of these peoples I mentioned are Christian.

Now Arab can mean many things. If you speak Arabic and share its culture, your an Arab. If you are part of the Middle East, your an Arab. However in the sense of ethnicity how many people in the Middle East are Arab? I mean we all look alike going from dark brown skin to light olive oil skin so who are the 'true Arabs?' The best answer I got is that most of the Arabs today are what is today the Arabian peninsula: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates.

People say the term 'Arab' is a modern term for what was then referred to as 'Bedhouins,' which were desert nomads. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Because most I've talked to think the Middle East is all Arab because of the language and what we look like.

Actually you are right when you wrote Arab can mean many things that is completly right but when you say Iraqis consider themselves Chaldean that is totally misunderstanding of the case.
the full name of syria is Syrian Arab Republic and they consider themselves true or pure Arab.
in Iraq 75% of the population or more are Arab all of them belong to Arab Tribes and can trace their root or ancestors far than a 1000 years they came from Arabia after conquring Iraq they from famous tribs like Tamim,Tai,Taghlub,Bakr and more if you intrested I can mention them.
even before that the Arab settled in Southern Iraq the Lakhmid Dynasty was a vassel kingdom of Sassanid of Persia, Lakhm tribe is a very big tribe as well as Bakr and Shayban who defeated  the Sassanids at the battle of Dhi-Qar 610 A.D. 
Syria and other countries in the Levant are the same case there are alot arabized people among the population but the Majority is true Arabs.
 


Edited by Ahmed The Fighter - 22-Aug-2007 at 06:23
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 15:50
Well Ahmed, all the people of the Middle East are related. Israelis and Jews are brothers. Egyptians and Arabs are brothers, remember Hagar was Egyptians and traveled into the deserts of Arabia, we're all related to one another Egyptians, Arabs, Assyrians, Babylonians whatever we are all connected. The Arabians came as a single group spreading Islam throught the Middle East and at that time in the Middle East Christianity was the dominant religion. So if your part of an ethnic group it wasn't based on nationality, but religion. When the Arabs came it all changed and we all became one family again. I don't really understand the idea of certain Arab tribes going to Iraq, Egypt, and Assyria.
 
For example both Egypt and Assyrian are now 'Arab Republics' but Lebanon who is Christians is not considered this way. Many converted to Islam and once they denounced Christianity they were now 'Arabs.'
 
We are all related in the Middle East Ahmed whether your Christian, Muslim, or an Israeli Jew not only because of looks, culture, and language but also because we are actually very related to one another.
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I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraq and Egypt - by looks. 

Edited by Zagros - 22-Aug-2007 at 16:29
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 20:34
Originally posted by Zagros

I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraq and Egypt - by looks. 
 
I can't. The only thing I can tell is that people from the Arabian peninsula are generally darker then the rest of the Middle East. People from North Africa, Delta and the wooded areas of North African don't look all to different from Syrians or Lebanese. I actually find that Palestinians and Egyptians look really similar anyone else notice this?
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Originally posted by andrew

Originally posted by Zagros

I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraqand Egypt - by looks.


I can't. The only thing I can tell is that people from the Arabian peninsula are generally darker then the rest of the Middle East. People from North Africa, Delta and the wooded areas of North African don't look all to different from Syrians or Lebanese. I actually find that Palestinians and Egyptians look really similar anyone else notice this?


There are some similarities, or overlap, but there are certain features that when you see them you know they come from a certain area and no where else. For example one of the features that make Egyptians stand out are the eyes. They have big eyes with very thick long curly lashes. Its a very distinct look. North Africans also have certain features that distinguish them and Yeminis too. I would consider it like three circles. There is a point where all three converge however there also being areas that fall outside that range and do not meet. So the answer to your question is both yes and no. There are certain people who could fit in anywhere you place them, and others who could not. There is no right or wrong answer here.
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Posts: 156 		  Quote Surmount Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:57
Many people in the middle east and north Africa are considered Arab due to arabization

Arabization is the gradual transformation of an area into one that speaks Arabic and is part of the Arab culture. It can also mean the replacement or displacement of a native population with Arabs, although this rarely happened in ancient times, as there weren't nearly sufficient numbers of original Arabs to replace or displace existing populations.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 00:11
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

 
The full name of Syria is Syrian Arab Republic and they consider themselves true or pure Arab.

Yes and the full name of North Korea is Democratic Republic of Korea because they are pure democratic

even before that the Arab settled in Southern Iraq the Lakhmid Dynasty was a vassel kingdom of Sassanid of Persia, Lakhm tribe is a very big tribe as well as Bakr and Shayban who defeated the Sassanids at the battle of Dhi-Qar 610 A.D.

As for lakhmid and Ghassanid:

First, these were insignificant small settlements among Bedouins that some of the Arab nationalists have find in some obscure so called history text and try to make exaggerate posts all over the internet trying to show Arabs have a history that goes before 7th century

Second, they were not in Iraq as in Mesopotamia they were in the desert south of Fertile Crescent AKA Arabia

Third, they dont have much to do with the Afro-Semites who lived in the southwestern Arabian peninsula AKA what is today is referred to as Arabs

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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 04:04
Originally posted by andrew

Well Ahmed, all the people of the Middle East are related. Israelis and Jews are brothers. Egyptians and Arabs are brothers, remember Hagar was Egyptians and traveled into the deserts of Arabia, we're all related to one another Egyptians, Arabs, Assyrians, Babylonians whatever we are all connected. The Arabians came as a single group spreading Islam throught the Middle East and at that time in the Middle East Christianity was the dominant religion. So if your part of an ethnic group it wasn't based on nationality, but religion. When the Arabs came it all changed and we all became one family again. I don't really understand the idea of certain Arab tribes going to Iraq, Egypt, and Assyria.
 
For example both Egypt and Assyrian are now 'Arab Republics' but Lebanon who is Christians is not considered this way. Many converted to Islam and once they denounced Christianity they were now 'Arabs.'
 
We are all related in the Middle East Ahmed whether your Christian, Muslim, or an Israeli Jew not only because of looks, culture, and language but also because we are actually very related to one another.
I know we are all related cuz we are all semitic people excluding Iran but I can't accept the Idea that say Iraqis call themselves Chaldean because that is false maybe  they are proud of Chaldeans but not belong to them.
the same feelings in Syria and Egypt beleive me I have been there both Syrians and Egyptions consider themselves Arabs.
now I want from you to understand how a whole tribe migrated from Arabia to Iraq or any other Arabic country.
Utba bin Ghazwan conquer south of Iraq in 635 A.D he founded the first islamic city outside Arabia not the first Arabic city Basrah.
they city was divide into five districts one for each big tribe Tamim,Azd,Abd Al-Qais,Bakr and Asad.
all these tribs are pure Arab transfered during the Arab expansion they had to settled in these places because it is impossible to keep moving forward and the back the whole army to Arabia and these tribes were the Army.
the same case for Kufa founded in 636 A.D by Saad divided to seven Quarters between kinda,Azd,Khathaam,Tamim,Bakr,Bujayla,Ghassan,Hemyar,hamdan,hawazen,
Asad,Taghlub,Ghtafan all these tribes moved to Iraq and the call is yours now to judge.
if you want to know about Syria and Egypt even Lybia it os the same story but with different Tribes so there is a lot of Pure Arab as well as Arabized people.
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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 04:07
Originally posted by Zagros

I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraq and Egypt - by looks. 
Agree Zagros but we are from the Area and know everything about it but the foriegner cannot recognize persian from turks or arab.
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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 04:25
Originally posted by hani

Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

 
The full name of Syria is Syrian Arab Republic and they consider themselves true or pure Arab.

Yes and the full name of North Korea is Democratic Republic of Korea because they are pure democratic

very funny from you but I think I make my point clear, there are pure Arabs and there are Arabized people like your brothers in Alegeria .
have you been in syria to know how they feeling about being Arabs pure or not the answer is 100% no.
so try to be objective.
 
I won't answer you about the Exaggeration caus I think you have somthing with the Arabs.
but about their kingdom in Iraq the Lakhmid were in the heart of Southern Iraq, and their capital were Hira on the west bank of the Euphrates 2 miles from Najaf Today in Mesopotamia as well as their dominian was spreading to include Dhi-qar,Muthana,Qadysya governorate today in Iraq were Sumerian culture before them flourished.
about the  insignificant small settlements  the answer is
beside the Lakhmids and I am repeating here there are Bakr tribe one of the Biggest tribe in Arabia migrated from the Heart of Arabia after A bloody war with her sister Taghlub.
you can't deny that they Defeated the Mighty persian Army with small  settlementsDead.
 they defeated the Persians by Bakr and Shayban tribes both of the tribes later will play a major rules in conquest of persia.


Edited by Ahmed The Fighter - 23-Aug-2007 at 15:08
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 14:12
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

Originally posted by Zagros

I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraq and Egypt - by looks. 
Agree Zagros but we are from the Area and know everything about it but the foriegner cannot recognize persian from turks or arab.
 
Yes, obviously there is overlapo as others have mentioned but usually it is obvious.  I am not talking about colour of skin I am talking about the general shape of the features.  In the same way I can tell who is Polish, German, French, Spanish, Irish, Greek, Italian etc.
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Posts: 253 		  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2007 at 16:41
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

Originally posted by Zagros

I really don' think the people of the middle east look the same - I can usually tell who is from Saudi, who is from Syria and Lebanon and North Africa, Iraq and Egypt - by looks. 
Agree Zagros but we are from the Area and know everything about it but the foriegner cannot recognize persian from turks or arab.
 
Yes, obviously there is overlapo as others have mentioned but usually it is obvious.  I am not talking about colour of skin I am talking about the general shape of the features.  In the same way I can tell who is Polish, German, French, Spanish, Irish, Greek, Italian etc.
 
Features really needs someone who knows the land well. All we can draw from is skin color and the Middle East you can see anyone from dark brown skin all the way up to an olive complexion. Obvioulsy people of Yemen, Kuwait, Oman, parts of Saudi Arabia have darker skin then the rest of the Middle East. If we say that Syrains are generally lighter then Iraqis and that Morocco is the darkest out of Libya, Egypt, Algeria, and Tunisia then we're bound to conflict on that because skin color in the Middle East is very heterogeneous. For example in Egypt the people in the Delta have light to an olive colored skin. Move to Middle Egypt, Luxor northward, you find people with a middle/bronzish complexion, then anyone from Aswan southward generally look dark brown to a Nubian complexion. However problem is you will find dark people and light people throught the Middle East in most countries. I mean I know Iran is considered 'Aryan,' but from the Iranians I've met they look like any Arab I've met.
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