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Topic ClosedOrigins of Azeris

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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origins of Azeris
    Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 14:46
Because u guys dont know about us, u guys dont even know that Azerbaijan located in Caucasus LOLLOLLOL.
 
huh? I was thinking azerbaijan is located at central asia.  I was just curious how armenian fight with a country at central asia..
 
Secondly my friend, we have azeris in Turkey too not only immigrants but also locals..
 
 
By the way, It would be better If you forsake to refuse your people because of their clours..
 
 
 
 


Edited by Mortaza - 04-Aug-2007 at 14:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 14:57
What u saying?

All Azeris is same for me, i just said most Azeris have light skin.

In Azerbaijan but i dont know in Turkey or Iran. I just Said that.




Shot with DSC-W17 at 2007-08-04




Shot at 2007-08-04




Shot at 2007-08-04


Azerbaijan national atlethic team.



Shot at 2007-08-04


Azeri Soldiers at Karabakh War.



Shot at 2007-08-04





Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 04-Aug-2007 at 15:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:09
And why u guys dont finish that?

This topic is about origins.

And that was u guys from Turkey that begun colour discussin.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:23

Forget color, look at your DNA, it holds all the secrets:

 
There was a genetic Y chromosome study done in that region.  Here is a quote from the results:
 
"

"The Turkish and Azeri populations are atypical among Altaic speakers (Table 1) in having low frequencies of M130, M48, M45, and M17 haplotypes. Rather, these two Turkic-speaking groups seem to be closer to populations from the Middle East and Caucasus, characterized by high frequencies of M96- and/or M89-related haplotypes. This finding is consistent with a model in which the Turkic languages, originating in the Altai-Sayan region of Central Asia and northwestern Mongolia (31), were imposed on the Caucasian and Anatolian peoples with relatively little genetic admixtureanother possible example of elite dominance-driven linguistic replacement." - The National Academy of Sciences

A link to the report:
 
 
-
 
There you have it a scientific report that proves that Azeris are closer to people in the Caucusus and Middle East than Turkic or Turkish.  Case closed, move on, check is in the mail.
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:26
I know too, We Are close to Caucasus and Iranian peopls.

And I dont like term that (Azeris is close to Caucasian) Cause we are Caucasians not close but we are.

And we are Close to Iranians of course (Not all Iranians, just north Iranians).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:30
Dear Emil
 
1. You are not the first and the only Azeri here inthis forum. I have been here for more than 3 years and know our history and have discussed it for more than 100 times.
 
2. All the guys that have been posting u back are here at least longer than me and they are pretty good historians and know our history as well.
 
3. Several pics are never an exampleof whole nation - there are more than 10 minorities in Azerbaijan and none of them are shown in your pics.
 
4. i have been negotiating with turkish peole - both in normal and academic level for more than 4 years and I have never seen any kind of hate\red towards me or my nation, as well as from Kurds in Turkey and in azerbaijan
 
5. If you want discuss our origin from a historical point of view and i\f u have ideas then come up with them + facts that we will criticise.
 
6. Again, it is not the place to show your emotions and claim subjective slogans. all guys here are almost scholars and write books.
 
7. Even though they might not know everything about our history, it is not right anyway to respond them in your way.
 
8. Race is different than nation and DNA plays very little role in defining nation, but lots role in defining race
History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:37
Typical Pan-Turkic.

Well, for Pan-Turks, whole the world is turk.

I m first Azeri. Not turk.

And These in pics are 100% Azeris.


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 04-Aug-2007 at 15:39
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:43
According to modern science, genes concerning visible human features like skin, eye, hair colour constitute a very little part of the total DNA of a human being. A Japanese and a Swedish probably have more in common genetically, rather than randomly selected two Africans who look like each other. Therefore the concept of 'race' cannot be applied to humans, even if it exists.

By the way, these two looked a little Mongoloid to me. Have them murdered, OK?



Cool t-shirt.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 15:52
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev



Because u guys dont know about us, u guys dont even know that Azerbaijan located in Caucasus LOLLOLLOL.

So u guys talk a s**t about us evrytime.


By "You guys", you mean the Turkish people in general, I suppose.  Because in this forum, the Turkish members have a relatively good grasp of geography -since they are interested in history, like many of us here- . So I can assure you that we all know here where Azerbaijan is.

As for Azerbaijan's popularity in Turkey. This is actually not something special with Turkey. Azerbaijan is not widely known by the world in general because of the fact that Azerbaijan is a very small and poor country in terms of economy, population, political and military power, and socio-cultural activity -most of which only make sense to ex-Soviet States-.
Turkey, however, is probably one of the countries that know Azerbaijan good enough, due of the fact that Azeri people speak a very similar language to Turkish -even though the language sounds quite fantastic to Turkish people-. And Azerbaijan is politically close to Turkey, (Probably because Azeris can't defend themselves from another micro-state of the region, Armenia.)




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:03
Turkey Support Us Because of oil.

I dont forgot in Karabakh war, Turkey's president helped armenians.

But Because of whole of the world knows now that Azerbaijan is oilrich so evrybody is now freind.


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 04-Aug-2007 at 16:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:04
Originally posted by Feanor

According to modern science, genes concerning visible human features like skin, eye, hair colour constitute a very little part of the total DNA of a human being. A Japanese and a Swedish probably have more in common genetically, rather than randomly selected two Africans who look like each other. Therefore the concept of 'race' cannot be applied to humans, even if it exists.
 
Although I do agree that DNA has no relationship with someones identity in terms of culture or nationality, DNA does offer encite into peoples background and who they have similar backgrounds to.
 
In the Y chromosome study of Eurasian populations it links Azeris closer to Caucasians and Middle Easterners, which means their paternal ancestors were the same.  This means that they have more in common genetically to those populations than to Turkics, who they share a linguistic and possible cultural ties with.
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:22
Cool t-shirt.
 
hahaha this made my day..
 
I dont forgot in Karabakh war, Turkey's president helped armenians.
 
huh? do armenians aware of this?
 
 If  Turkey president did not helped armenians, You would loose nakivan too..Wink
 
 
 
 


Edited by Mortaza - 04-Aug-2007 at 16:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:35
No!!.

Nakhchivan people defended self agian armenians.

Turkey dont helped us.

Turkey just helped one time, Russians Invaded Azerbaijan and Enver Pasha helped us, but exampell ottomans killed so many Azeris in Shah ismal vs ottoman war. Have u forgot that?

And we defend our self from Ottomans and porud of it.

And u know that our national symbol is zartosht wich was our first religion.

We have nothing like other turks, sorry mann.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:42
first religion? haha how typical..
 
Maybe you want to drink kimiz with our nationalists?
 
My friend, even now, armenia-turkey border is closed because of you..
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 16:46
Really?

Turkey Closed borders with Armenia because of genocide propaganda.

Because armenians say there was an genocide but Turkey say no there was not and if u keep saying this, we will close our borders. Story is THat!!.

And Zartosht fire is our national symbol, wich u see in my avatar.

In Azeri army coast is Zartosht fire a symbol.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 17:04
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev

Turkey Support Us Because of oil.

I dont forgot in Karabakh war, Turkey's president helped armenians.

But Because of whole of the world knows now that Azerbaijan is oilrich so evrybody is now freind.


Turkey supports Azerbaijan, mostly because Azeris have oil. That's right, exactly. Like Azerbaijan accepts Turkey's helps because she lacks political and military power against Armenia.

The whole world is not "friend" of Azerbaijan just because Azerbaijan is oilrich. Like Iran and Saudi Arabia is not the friendliest countries to the World. Besides Azerbaijan doesn't have any political and military power whatsoever to use the strategic power of oil. No matter the world is friendly to her.

We have nothing like other turks, sorry mann.


Actually you don't need to be sorry. As far as I know, Mortaza never claimed that Azeri people and Turkish people have common cultural and genetic ties besides their similar language.

There are Turkish users here who are not Panturkists. Be aware of that.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 17:33
Like i said.

We Azeris speak turkish languague, but we are from South-Caucasus groups mostly in Republic Azerbaijan while in Iranian Azerbaijan they is from north-iranian tribes.

And many that calls Azeri in Iran is not even Azeri, mostly is turkomans.

There is Many Azeris but is not about 24% of country. Many of them are turkomans, this is clear.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 17:35
But i respect others opnions.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 18:29

Let me break it down for you Emil.

The origins of Azeri or Azeri Turk or Tork today is very simple.
 
- Oghuz Turk mass migration bought their language, identity and rule, mixed with the population already there are through time the area became majority Turk.
 
That is it, no need for conspiracies or fantasy stories of any particular ideology.
 
The reality of today is
 
Language - Azeri, Azeri Turkish, Azerbaycani Turkish, Turki or whatever classification you like to use.
 
Historically - The Khazars and post-Oghuz Turks, Selcuks, Timurids, Ilkhanids, Safavi, Qajars...
 
Culturally - Predominantly Oghuz Turk, the epics like "Dede Qorqud", "Oghuznama", "Koroglu", literary giants like "Fuzuli" (also Ottoman Turk), "Nesimi", "Sah Hatayi", "Bextiyar", "Shahriyar", the Afshars, Bayats etc important large clans part of the 24 Oghuz.
Also with elements of Caucaus, Persian and Arabic influences and fusions.
 
 
This is the origin, it is the origin as were speaking of a nation. There is only one race, being humans, so the origins of any people if we go far back enough is exactly the same.
 
Prior to Turks there were many empires and peoples in the land that is now Azerbaycan.
 
There were even "Azari" speakers, Azeri have nothing to do with them, there language was completely seperate. In Iran, Azari are rightly referred to as "Tork" (Turk) as Azari was a seperate language.
 
Now Diniyev, it would be better if you stopped insulting members and starting pointless arguments.
Who cares about "whiteness" or whatever, whiteness, race, dna etc has nothing to do with a nation, a nation is made up of many peoples who unite around common factors.
This is the same the world over.
 
So your not a Turk Emil? you don't support a Turkic union? since when? has someone stolen your identity LOL 


Edited by Bulldog - 04-Aug-2007 at 18:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2007 at 18:56
p.s Afganan, more in-depth studies show that it was not "elite dominance",
 
Elite Dominance 
- Language: Language change not associated with significant
demographic change
- Contribution of Asian alleles: Zero
- Effects on Y-chromosome diversity: None
 
Instantaneous admixture
- Language: Language change due to demographic change
- Contribution of Asian alleles: Greater than zero
- Effects on Y-chromosome diversity: Greater than on mtDNA diversity
 
Continuos immigration
- Language: Language change followed by demographic change
- Contribution of Asian alleles: Greater than zero
- Effects on Y-chromosome diversity: Same as on mtDNA diversity
 
The genetic features of populations before admixture
are unknown, and must be approximated using
information on contemporary samples (see
Guglielmino et al., 1990). If the European populations
of the eastern Mediterranean region are not
too different genetically from the 11th century Anatolian
population, and if the Turkmen incomers
were not too different from the modern Turkicspeaking
groups of Central Asia, this study shows
that: 1) the Anatolian gene pool contains a substantial
fraction of alleles of Asian origin; 2) immigration
rates inferred from female- and male-transmitted
traits are similar; 3) if there was a single, nearly
instantaneous admixture event, some 30% of the
current Anatolian genes have a Central Asian origin;
and 4) if there was a continuous input of Central
Asian alleles, it occurred at a rate of 1% per generation
(or less, had the process started before the first
Turkmen contact).....
An instantaneous input of Asian alleles, accounting
for 30% of the current gene pool, means that the
11th century invasion entailed a massive movement
of people, females as well as males. This is in contrast
with historical reconstructions, referring to the
Oghuz as an army or a tribe, and not as a large
immigrating wave (Roux, 1984; Endress, 1988). Genetic
data cannot tell us whether the historical
sources are reliable. But if most Asian alleles in the
current Anatolian gene pool arrived in the 11th century
AD, the Oghuz invasion had a much greater
demographic impact than is commonly believed by
historians.
The alternative is a continuous input of alleles
from Central Asia...
 
 
 
 
 
There was a substantial Turkic migration which mixed with the large population already living on those lands. Smaller groups and tribes through time mixing and living with Turks became Turks without any forced assimilation and accepted into their new nation.
 
Larger nations like Greeks or Armenians retained their language, identity and customs as they had a more rooted history, presense and larger population then other smaller groups.
 
The above study is for todays Turkey, the majority of Oghuz Turks which migrated there spent some time in todays Azerbaycan and Northern Iran region before making their way there.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

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